Rice vs Emory vs UVA vs Berkeley

Colleges and Universities A-Z Emory University
1

I’m currently conflicted between these four colleges. Financially, Rice and Emory offered me the most (three times as much money as Berkeley) and UVA is in the middle. My family is middle-class so the financial factor is pretty important to me; however, it would be possible for us to afford Berkeley if I decided it was the one. I’m planning on majoring in Anthropology, though I also like English–honestly, I’m not completely sure on what I want to major in, but it’s definitely going to be in the humanities/social sciences. There’s a high chance I’ll be shooting for law school after undergrad so I’d also like opinions for which school would be best for that. I’m also very big on art so I’d like a good art scene at the school.

Rice-- I’m currently leaning towards Rice because I love their residential college system and student life in general, but I think their humanities program may the worst of the four :/? Also not a very good art program… Not sure if the school favors STEM majors over humanities people
Berkeley-- Great programs in my areas of interest, but the most expensive option. It’s also a bit big in my opinion. How hard is it to develop close relationships with professors?
Emory-- I have the option to start at their Oxford campus so that might be cool, and also I think it’s pretty solid in the anthro and English departments. Not sure about much else though.
UVA-- I know they’ve got good programs in my prospective majors, but it’s also got the size issue. I was put in the Echols Scholars program, so that is a perk. Unfortunately I don’t know much else about it.

I only have the time and money to visit one of these schools, so I’m hoping people on here can give some advice!!

2

I can’t get you to pick between these, but all I can say is that administration and faculty seem more serious about reinvigorating the liberal arts and humanities than many comparably sized schools. It reflects itself in certain Undergraduate Fellowships (like the Fox fellowship: http://fchi.emory.edu/home/fellowships/programs.html please see the honors and SIRE fellowships) and curricula like the voluntary core (http://college.emory.edu/home/academic/voluntary-core-program)for those serious about the humanities and social sciences. Many of these departments are loaded with money and opportunities for undergraduates that want to engage deeply with the disciplines (history or polisci for example gives up to 10k travel grants to students doing research abroad). Emory really does try to empower students in the humanities and social sciences and tries to make it such that they need not be limited to pre-professions such as pre-law, but also gets them ready for grad. school if they want it. Also, if into languages, pretty excellent programs.

If you are concerned about the schools strengths, simply hit the undergraduate page of the depts you’re interested in and see what opps, awards, and scholarships are offered (as in internally by or connected directly to those depts). Emory has plenty and so may the others. Note how it isn’t only the classes that make the programs, it is the funding and opps, along with the environment in which it exists. Anthropology is partly exceptional due to access to the museum and professors at Emory being leaders in facilitating very interesting projects in the field. English and Creative Writing are great because of the amazing writers (all forms) attracted to the school (as faculty or for events-usually associated with them giving their work to MARBL) and the rare books library (EXTREMELY strong for a school as new as Emory to the Research U game. Actually the library system is pretty amazing in general). The English programs also are very serious about the UG curriculum so they really try to modernize it at various levels. All of this on top of the fact that Emory has a pretty serious UG arts community (such that plays have solid attendance, even a student facilitated art symposium sold out. And this was co-hosted by the school’s fiction writing journal, PULSE, also founded by a student, that I happen to know. She is now at Vandy for medical school) makes Emory an interesting place to be if you like writing/want to be an English major. The intellectual community among UG’s is very present there.and students take their majors very seriously (I’ve known several) and actually do attend the seminars and events where some renowned writer is the feature (hell, a renowned poet is department chair of Creative Writing).

Examples at Emory outside of what I mentioned
Polisci: http://polisci.emory.edu/home/undergraduate/special_programs/index.html
History: http://history.emory.edu/home/undergraduate/awards-fellowships/index.html (this dept. seems very serious about investing in undergraduate success beyond the classroom! It is loaded)
Sociology has its own research program and hosts a UG research conference: http://sociology.emory.edu/home/undergraduate/research/index.html
Philosophy: Apparently now has its own review (this is another thing to look for in terms of how engaged UG’s are in a department. Are there clubs or UG journals directly or indirectly affiliated with it). http://philosophy.emory.edu/home/undergraduate/EmoryPhilosophyReview.html

Again, try to go gauge the other schools by doing this and consider the context of the programs. What resources and events at each school will strengthen your experience as a major or affiliate of those depts? Is the major taken seriously enough by the students to have some form of student led intellectual engagement. Is the department clearly loaded and has a history of excellent co-curricular opps. for students. Does the school appear to strongly support the humanities (through fellowships such as the Fox) UG students. Just go explore.

Also, in general, schools will clearly have a STEM bias as STEM based funding is easier to come by. With that said, you may be interested in knowing that Emory apparently has an unusually high amount of Non-STEM research funding (like 22% I think) which far outstrips peers. The social sciences, humanities, and interdisciplinary departments at Emory seem very good at that (makes sense as places like history, English, polisci, religion, and A/AA studies have very strong faculty line-ups that publish a lot of books or even have a media presence). As a STEM major who dabbled heavily in the social sciences and humanities (as in took upper-levels and special topics…I was not just taking random courses to pad my GPA. I only wanted the more interesting topics or top instructors no matter their standards), I can vouch for these non-STEM depts having lots to offer undergraduates. This is not limited to anthropology and English whatsoever.

3

Financial aid is very important considering the field you wish to work in. The average salary for graduates in that field is not as high as others. (No attempt to bash or criticize your choice of study)
The quality of education at all the schools you listed is very comparable (Hence the difficult decision!)

I would go with either Rice or Emory, this is because both are excellent institutions offering you great financial aid.

specifying further, if Emory is better for your specific field I’d choose Emory.
–> that being said it’s all relative.

I’ll conclude with this,
choose the school that will…

  1. offer you a community you feel ‘correct’ in. If you are a triangle, don’t attempt to fit in a circle.
  2. best propel you toward success after college in your respective field
  3. be affordable

2 and 3 must compromise. If the school is best for 2 but not for 3, compromise and consider if it is worth it.
find harmony between 1, 2, and 3 and I’m sure you’ll make the best choice

cheers,
-Lucas

4

In theory, Emory’s QSS major is meant to make those willing to become more quantitatively inclined but interested in humanities or social sciences quite bluntly…more employable. So Emory has motivated students covered there if they are concerned about that. Program is new, but I’ve heard that the intensity of training in the QSS major courses is excellent (cannot say the same for many math dept courses. QSS has actual mathematical rigor and with applications necessary for one that seeks employment in social sciences or graduate work in those fields).

5

I’ll agree with lukenod but will take his comments further. As an Anthropology, English, and/or art major you need to understand you will likely be unemployed and living in your parents home in 4 years. It’s great to follow your interests but you need to be smart about it. So you must follow the money and do not take out any loans. Law school is a great option but you will not receive any aid and you are looking at $120,000++ to attend.

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@bud123 : What?!! Seriously. Come on. That is one of the most shallow things I’ve seen written. luke mentioned that they will make less not all of that (and besides, it has been shown, that especially at elites, the gap between them and more “lucrative” majors ends up narrowing if not closing). As normal, your hyperbole is off the charts. If you attend any elite private school, there are opportunities to take advantage of that will make one employable in things other than those DIRECTLY related to such majors. There are plenty of internships and opportunities that will gain the person experience. The unemployable folks are the ones that just go through and take courses and get a degree. Ideally, a person at an elite school is smarter than that and will develop a more diverse a flexible skill set that builds on top of their major. Let us not be sensationalist here and realize that smart folks in those majors are typically not closed off to opportunities that don’t directly involve the major itself. Let us use some sense here please. I’m sure @Philery knows how to go and be a go-getter and make something happen. I’ve seen it happen many times before with people in those majors at Emory and other schools.

7

Sometimes a little hyperbole is a good thing.

8

No, it isn’t unless it is satire, relevant, or first and foremost true in the context in which we are discussing it. Saying stupid stuff like that is not going to get that person or anyone to change their interests.

9

Sometimes a “little hyperbole” is an oxymoron.

10

I’ll be sure to tell this girl to prepare her old bedroom at home because I suppose her majors will stop her from getting anywhere in life: http://blog.emoryadmission.com/2016/04/iamemory-sonia-ghura/

I need to alert this girl as well: http://news.emory.edu/stories/2015/11/upress_Rhodes_Scholarship_2015/campus.html

I mean they are both so epically screwed and don’t know it. I hope their advisors catch them before it is far too late.

11

These are all peer institutions – albeit a mix of public and private – so prestige should not be a factor at all. (a relief, since it never really should be.)

Because they are peer institutions, I think you shouldn’t have to worry about program quality if you were to change your mind: all four will have plenty of quality majors and classes from which to choose. Rice’s English and other humanities departments will be fine. They might not rank as highly as Berkeley’s, but the classes at Rice will be (mostly) smaller than those at Cal, so there will be plenty of individual attention.

If I were you, I’d give big immediate edges to Rice and Emory because you and your family will save loads of money if you choose from between that pair. Even if your parents are willing to pay for everything, we’re talking in the neighborhood of $200,000 – enough to do a lot of good in your pockets or your parents’. (and if it’s in their pockets now, eventually at least some of it will likely find its way to you)

Fit is still very important – look at each school thoroughly, visit if you can, and then rank the schools from 1-4.

In my opinion, if you like Emory or Rice particularly, that school should be your choice or at least be given serious consideration. They are quite similar in quality and rep.

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@prezbucky : And they are still very different. I think if the social life element they felt at Rice is more important then they should go there because if they don’t know how the programs or academic atmosphere at each differ by now (especially in those fields), then it likely was not worth researching or gauging (and is a bit late). Based on their description, they seem to like Rice. I think the residential system and everything will keep them plenty occupied with other things to do (since they were worried about the effect of the STEM bias). I just think that Emory is better if you actually seriously plan to engage whatever humanities or social science disciplines outside of the classroom. When it comes to STEM, especially physical sciences, I do believe Rice has most medium/small privates between 15 and 25 beat except maybe Cornell (okay, not exactly medium but still not USC) and CMU. But again, that wasn’t really a consideration of OP, and Rice initially stood out to them.

13

My two cents:

We live spitting distance from Cal Berkekely. For the life of me I can’t imagine anyone choosing it unless it were the LEAST expensive option. As you pointed out, it is big. Although your depts/areas of interest may be strong there, it might take you so long to get into the classes that you want that it could take you more than four years to graduate. More expense. You have some truly great options. Why would you ever want to pay more for Berkeley?

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@AsleepAtTheWheel : Do you expect that Berkeley is like other large publics that even have jumbo freshman and sophomore English classes? I would be quite surprised as it just isn’t that common at medium/small privates. Perhaps because there are more people(percentage wise at the elite privates) that AP out on top of the decline in demand for such a major. However, I do imagine social science courses being very large

15

Bernie, relax…I didn’t write Trump 2016 on Emory’s steps.

There are plenty of data showing students should not get large student loans if majoring in fields that provide few jobs or low compensation jobs. Also, plenty of data showing which majors have trouble finding good jobs. Of course there are acceptations. Sometimes high school students and parents don’t understand the death load student loans place on young adults. Law school will not offer any aid. So, follow your dreams but be smart about debt.

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exceptions

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Except that the OP basically is trying to tell us that for two of their schools they will probably not have two loans.And law school does offer aid, especially the top ones (say top 25) often in merit aid for high LSAT scores. Emory has unusually strong (as in in terms of top tier placement) law school placement (and it is stronger since the popularity has declined, in terms of placement at top schools that is. Less competition means at least slightly lower admission standards to elite law schools which is important since these schools have far more weight job placement wise) and I know people who have gotten scholarship offers from some T14-15 schools.Also, there is almost no doubt that attending a more prestigious than normal institution gives student in traditionally lower paying majors a bump if not partially do to the selection biases highlighted above, You’re telling me to relax but I am not the one who used a ridiculous amount of hyperbole to suggests that the OP is screwed. I think they “got this” now leave them be.

They can figure out other things to do related or not to their major just like many of the others who attend selective schools. “Soft” majors are less successful for less high achieving students often at less resourced schools. Notice how at some highly selective schools, students in the soft majors (including communications at some elites and things like Peabody at Vanderbilt, I think HOD. All of these are honestly likely softer than more liberal arts oriented majors. They are merely cloaked in a pre-professional label or entity) are quite successful (as are the liberal arts oriented folks at these places. Let us not talk the super elite schools where the students come in with connections or establish them at the school. The English major ends up in high finance or something…surprise!).

Typically similar types of majors are not associated with prestige, critical thinking, or even a moderate workload yet at these schools the students and faculty just make the most out of it to make these majors employable/competitive and it comes primarily through the EC and co-curricular experiences. To get a job, experience counts far more than taking classes and as I said, many not so high achieving expect that merely taking classes in college is enough to improve employment options even if they have a “softer” major. So those data get kind of dubious to analyze when you project it on to more academically elite students.

And speaking of Trump, I was going to say that your hyperbole is nearly equivalent to attempting to yell at a Trump supporter or point out that their ideas may be stupid/misguided. Not going to work and will likely just empower them. The same goes for this, except that I encourage the OP to be empowered.

18

Thanks for the replies everyone!! Yeah, I’m aware my major isn’t particularly lucrative, but it’s the most interesting thing to me right now. My tentative plan is to try it out, and if it doesn’t work out then off I go to law school. So it seems that between my two cheapest options, Rice and Emory, it’s the student life vs slightly better programs. After some research, I feel like Emory is stronger in my areas of interest. However, I like the residential college system and just social life in general better at Rice. But since I’m going to college to study, not have fun(though that’d be a plus), I feel like I should choose the college with the best academics. I guess my question is, does Rice’s other aspects compensate for its weaker humanities department, or would it be smarter to choose the school with better programs(Emory or UVA)?

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@Philery : But are you sure that Rice at the departmental level is weaker? I can maybe go take a look. I think their “atmosphere” and clear bias towards STEM (in terms of campus events, etc) would weaken your experience as a humanities/social science major while on campus. However, that does not mean that individual departments are weaker. Go and see if they appear to be doing anything special with their social sciences/humanities curriculum, what opps are there for you within those departments? The individual departments could be as strong and strong academics and opps within them plus the residential system you like. I think Rice’s residential system is quite successful in creating a strong intellectual environment even if primarily because of its size. Emory has the “pre-professional intellectual” thing happening (so Emory students like hack-a-thons, business plan competitions, entrepreneurship events, case competitions, debate competitions…basically organized braininess/intellectualism and lesser so “random” I guess). and intellectualism outside of class most definitely exists perhaps more than some of our neer peers but isn’t as organized as Rice’s is. It more so occurs via various events or co-curriculars that students decide to attend or participate in and maybe lesser so in the dorm.

20

@Philery English If I remove context (intellectual, facult, etc) of each department, it is pretty close:
http://english.emory.edu/home/undergraduate/academic-opportunities/literary_union.html

Emory may only be a little stronger because they offer a 4+1 BA/MA program and is trying to be a little more modern (especially with lower division and non-major courses). Both are loaded clearly (several awards and some grant funding).

The only differences I see in the reward and award structure is that Rice is rewarding most achievements after the fact (which is perfectly fine) whereas Emory has a few more that actually fund research (like research grants to go abroad or somewhere in the US). Both have the equivalent of a literary union so this is excellent (Rice’s appears to take the form of Master Classes whereas Emory’s literary union is an apparently kind of new and popular more informal, but formal workshop environment). Academic requirements seem similar (requiring most courses to be 300 level +). Regardless, I don’t see the weakness for Rice’s department here. Emory is simply a better place to “be” an English major because of the faculty and events, but a strong intellectual environment in Rice’s dept or in their residential life can probably make up for this.

Anthropology: Rice’s smaller program can seriously have some benefits. For example, appears it is more geared toward those who may want to do research in a certain area (like they require a capstone or honors thesis and they can only do that because they are probably significantly smaller than Emory’s). Emory’s has quite a bit of flexibility (also has a club and things of that nature) due to the several concentrations and joint majors it has. However, if you look at the curriculum, there is a notable slant toward more medically-related, sustainability, or biological topics. If you are more interested in the humanist perspective then the joint major in religion may be of interest. Or if you are interested in more quantitative training, do it as a substantive concentration with QSS (which does offer undergraduate fellowships and have other neat opps). However, Rice’s size could be advantageous if you want to more seriously engage anthropology in the areas it specializes in (don’t get me wrong, Emory has a good context for that major, but also has almost evolved into a default pre-health major which may explain how it has become more or less “generic”. The department that compares well to the size and academic seriousness/requirements of Rice’s anthropology major is the environmental sciences major at Emory).

Seriously, think about what you want. Your extra-curricular life could end up stronger at Rice, but the co-curricular opps associated with your majors could be better at Emory (especially in the case of English).