<p>160K for Rice and let’s assume 250K for medical school - for a total debt burden of just over 400K. That’s a lot of scratch for anyone but in the grand scheme of things, over the course of a career, not too daunting for a neurosurgeon (median salary > 500K; lifetime earnings over a 25 year career > 10 million). No one knows what the future holds for medicine, but in my opinion, surgical specialists and sub specialists in general - and neurosurgeons in particular - will not suffer greatly, if at all. There will always be plenty of demand for and not enough supply of excellent surgeons and physicians, and socialized medicine will never happen in this country in your lifetime. It’s a little premature to identify your area of specialization, but I agree with another poster that if pediatrics, family practice, or another lower-paying specialty is on your radar, go to Iowa. If you really want to be a surgeon and/or neurosurgeon, go to Rice.</p>
<p>@CodyChesnutt, there are a whole lot of assumptions there–that OP continues to be interested in medicine, that OP gets into medical school, that OP remains interested in and is admitted to a competitive high paying surgical subspecialty, that salaries remain high. Too many to blithely assume that 400k in debt is no big deal–it’s a huge burden at a time in life in which folks should be saving money for a down payment on a house, etc. </p>
<p>Didn’t state or imply that it was no big deal. I said it was no big deal for a neurosurgeon.</p>
<p>@JedBread with regards to your #2 and what your parents said, I don’t think it can be reasonably argued that Rice won’t help you get into a better med school. Furthermore, you want to think about what will help you succeed IN med school, something a lot of people don’t think about what it comes to college admissions. I also think that it’s just about certain that you would have a richer experience at Rice than living at home in your hometown. But you definitely won’t get merit aid as the person above mentioned. </p>
<p>I vote for Iowa. It would be crazy to take on a huge amount of debt for undergrad, because it will limit your choices later for medical school. If you finish undergrad with little or no debt, you’ll have the ability to choose a medical school from a broader price range. Go to Iowa and get a high GPA, and you’ll have your choice of medical schools. Everything I’ve read is that GPA matters more than the name of the undergrad school when applying to medical school.</p>
<p>Okay, thanks again for all of your advice! So, to make this whole discussion a little less vague, my household income is ~140k. We don’t have any unusual expenses. How does this fact affect things? Thanks!</p>
<p>@JedBread And do you mind sharing the exact figure Rice gave you for costs? Or what your demonstrated need is according to FAFSA?</p>
<p>This calculator (mentioned multiple times in posts by others on related threads) gives a good idea of the maximum you should reasonably borrow <a href=“http://www.finaid.org/calculators/scripts/sloanadvisor.cgi”>http://www.finaid.org/calculators/scripts/sloanadvisor.cgi</a> </p>
<p>If your parents can pay most of the Rice costs, without carrying a lot of debt it will come down to value.</p>
<p>Is Rice worth 140-160K more than Iowa for you?</p>
<p>Remember to factor in graduation rates - 24% transfer out of Iowa, and only 70% of the remaining graduate despite many coming in as sophomores or juniors from other Universities. See <a href=“College Navigator - University of Iowa”>College Navigator - University of Iowa;
<p>and reasons for poor graduation rates are not always simply poor student quality, students who are not prepared for college - it can just as much be problems with campus culture, partying, poor advising, shortage of teachers for prereq classes, scheduling problems, lack of flexibility. It would be worth exploring why Iowa’s graduation rates are poor (especially compared to some of the flagship state universities in other states).</p>
<p>(Rice’s graduation numbers are MUCH higher, well over 90% - the raw data is available at nces web site).</p>
<p>And major:</p>
<p>Rice is clearly more comfortable place to be for PreMeds. Rice has more biochemistry majors than Iowa (as you can see from NCES), and almost as many Biology and BioMedicalengineering majors despite Iowa being much larger overall. </p>
<p>And fit:<br>
For a brilliant student - might be rough at Iowa to find equivalent challenges, stretching you to your full potential. The TOP 25% who enroll at Iowa got a 28 ACT while the bottom 25% of Rice got a 31 ACT or below. This is a HUGE difference. One way to think about it is that the top 5 or 10% at Iowa would be roughly equivalent to the bottom 10% of Rice enrolled students. Rice has far more National Merit finalists enrolled, even though Iowa is so much larger and Rice does not give National Merit Scholarships to Finalists but Iowa does. Obviously for some personality types, who are very independent the challenge of working with bright classmates may matter less, but it is VERY hard to believe that there is not significant value (probably not 160,000 worth though) in the better challenge - students, faculty, environment at Rice.</p>
<p>And career goals:</p>
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<p>I certainly don’t believe that. Rice has fantastic success rate for medical schools. Personally, I know multiple Doctors who attribute their Rice education to success at medical school, and you can’t beat the proximity to the largest medical center in the world. Being around bright students helps. I believe that the academic challenges I faced as an undergraduate at a tough University with brilliant students around me caused my GRE scores to be even higher than my SAT scores (which were quite high as well) - it is inconceivable that an equivalent student at Rice would not benefit at least a little on the MCAT from being around brilliant students - but the question is whether it is worth $160,000 (probably not).</p>
<p>So it boils down to value - $160,000 is a lot and seems to be too much difference in cost - but … the transfer out rate at Iowa is huge, the failure rate at Iowa is high, the 4 year graduation rate is terrible (47%) even assuming a poor student body in this era of massive AP and IB credit for incoming freshman … </p>
<p>RiceParent, it’s great you are so proud of the school your child will soon be attending. But there is no need to disparage University of Iowa, which is a fine university. I have visited with my kids and know several kids who attend–two of whom I would classify as “brilliant.” It is entirely possible to get a fine education there, and many do.</p>
<p>Also, I don’t think looking at overall graduation rates makes sense in this case. This is a student who already loves Iowa and has formed connections with faculty and others in the med school and hospital. I also don’t think the raw numbers of premeds at Rice has much bearing on how this student will fare at either school–for the same reasons. He is not coming in cold to Iowa knowing no one and having an unclear path. He is one of the more mature and focused 18-year-olds I have seen on this site.</p>
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<p>And there are bright students at Iowa. Again, the magic formula for med school admission is MCAT + GPA. So yes, a student with a high MCAT and GPA at Iowa generally has as good a chance at admission into medical school as one at Rice. Being by the Texas Medical Center is great for Rice students, but being by the University of Iowa Hospital is great for UI students.</p>
<p>@sally305 Good and valid points and for various relevant graduate programs (Public Health, Nursing, and Medicine, especially Primary Care ) Iowa is very highly rated so a motivated student even as an undergraduate may be able to leverage resources in these great programs. Some students I have talked with based their final decisions on their impressions of classes they have sat through and compared their experiences (obviously subjective but may be helpful). If the OP is comfortable with the rigor and level of classes they have experienced at Iowa, it would be even harder to justify a more expensive choice.</p>
<p>I don’t think anyone is suggesting that Iowa is not a fine school or trying to disparage it. And of course there are bright students there. There are bright students at Houston Community College. Iowa will provide a much better education than HCC, however. There is a greater density of bright and driven students who have worked hard to get where they are. I think it’s also reasonable to suggest that the rigor and density of bright and driven students at Rice will push a talented student to challenge themselves more. </p>
<p>If you choose Iowa, I STRONGLY urge you to live on campus. You only have one shot at an undergraduate experience while 18 - 22. Living at home will greatly diminish that experience. You have many years of school ahead of you to be more entirely focused on academics and it appears that your family can afford to pay for on campus housing. Consider which undergraduate experience will help you grow the most as a whole person and what value that growth will bring to whatever career you ultimately choose.</p>
<p>Also, what is your backup plan? Even though it may be inconceivable to consider that you won’t want to go to medical school, it might happen - after all, you are probably only 18 and it sounds like all of your focus has been in just one area. You might get to college and find another passion that you never considered because you were so focused on one thing. A good college will prescribe a course of study that will expose you to other careers. A strong residential campus life will help you be exposed to people who are very passionate about other fields. These experiences will help you confirm medicine as a career, will help you consider how you might pursue medicine in a way you haven’t considered, or help you discover that you want to do something different.</p>