Hi everyone! I am a current Junior in Atlanta, Georgia deciding between Rice, UPenn, and Columbia to apply with ED. I have done extensive research on all three schools and wanted to gain additional insight as to which school to go with. I plan on majoring in Political Science and attending graduate school to earn an MBA and JD to become a corporate attorney. All three schools will apparently offer similar amounts of aid, as per the net price calculator. Please help me with my decision with the criteria below. Thank you!
Criteria to Consider:
-School Atmosphere and Culture
-Overall Student Life
-Social Life
-Stress and Course Difficulty
-Using/Accepted AP Credits
-Academics
-Professors
-Extracurricular Activities
-Study Abroad Opportunities
-Campus Safety
-Research and Internship Opportunities
-Alumni Network
-Ranking
-Better Chance of Admission
(I have a 1530 SAT, 3.95 weighted GPA. I am ranked 7th of 857 students. I will have 18 AP classes by the end of Senior year and have solid extracurricular activities (Junior Class President (and elected to be Senior Class President), President of FBLA, Regional FBLA Officer, President of MDJunior (an organization empowering students to pursue medical careers in the future), President of Spanish National Honor Society, Vice-President of National Honor Society. I have also interned with a local law firm, and I volunteer with the American Red Cross, local food co-op, and library. I am also a President’s Volunteer Service Gold Award recipient and recipient of the National Leadership Award. I have placed in the top five in two national FBLA competitions.
I would also like to attend an Ivy-League graduate school after earning my undergraduate degree and earn my MBA and JD graduate degrees, so which school would help me be admitted to such a school?
By the way, how accurate are the net price calculators listed on each university’s website? I’m using the longer and more detailed one, but is that an accurate indication of how much aid I will receive?
Based on the totality of your post, Columbia seems to be your best match from this group. Though you would have to be attracted to big cities, of course, for this to truly be the case for you.
With respect to estimating cost of attendance, this alternative source can be helpful: https://myintuition.org/.
What do you think my chances of admission are for each school? I am a first-generation African American male and the first in my family to go to college.
As long as you nail the essays, you have a far above average chance at each one. Your stats, ECs, and personal information are very sought after by colleges.
Rice - Like Houston, it is very identified with NASA and astrophysics. Likes to boast about its “house” residential system where students are divided by dorm for all for years. Humidity makes Atlanta feel like a picnic in the Poconos.
Columbia - An iconic McKim, Mead and White designed gathering place surrounded by apartment buildings. Probably the best way to experience New York City short of moving there permanently.
Penn - Similar to Columbia but with a lot more institutional sprawl and not all of it particularly attractive.
@ATL547: As a first generation African-American male with a top 1% class rank, impressive SAT score, outstanding GPA, and exceptional leadership roles, you may want to reconsider applying ED if you do not have a clear-cut first choice school.
Based on your posted profile, you would be a strong candidate for admission to Princeton, Harvard, Stanford, Yale, Chicago, Columbia, Penn, Northwestern, & Rice. Duke & Vanderbilt as well, but it seems that you want to experience a different region of the country based on your target schools.
With respect to stress & difficulty of courses, what are you afraid of ? You have an outstanding background & excellent qualifications.
@ATL547: The most sought after URM by elite law schools is a well qualified African-American male.
You do not need both a JD degree & an MBA in order to practice corporate law in biglaw. ("Biglaw refers to law firms with at least a total of 500 attorneys when counting all office locations.) Most biglaw firms pay on the Cravath scale (Cravath, Swaine & Moore is a very prestigious NYC based law firm.)
If you like to work alone doing research & analytical thinking, then pursue law school. But, despite what others may speculate, a law degree is only good for the practice of law or if one wants to be a career politician. Law school is a 3 year program.
If you like to work as part of a team, then an MBA may be the better option for you. MBA programs are 2 years long & it is best to have at least 2 years of post undergraduate school work experience before enrolling in a full-time MBA program.
Lawyer here and nothing could be further from the truth. The only way you are going to get through law school alive is to figure out how to divide up the assigned readings, share notes and to study in groups. Very different from what you will become accustomed to in undergrad where - yeah - you can afford to be a lone snowflake in the humanities and to some extent in the social sciences.
I normally suggest that if you are not sure which college is a no regrets first choice, you probably do not want to apply ED anywhere.
For law school, LSAT score and college GPA. Take a look at http://schools.lawschoolnumbers.com/ (and other parts of that web site for more information on preparing for law school admission).
If you have accurate financial numbers from your parents, and they do not have particularly unusual finances, then they are likely to be accurate. Some things to watch out for:
If there is substantial non-W-2 income (e.g. self employment, small business, farm, rentals, etc.), then some colleges may add back some deducted expenses, using a higher income than tax forms calculate.
If your parents are divorced, some colleges' net price calculators are less accurate. Even those that are accurate in this case can be made inaccurate if the parents are less than fully cooperative in giving full financial information (many divorced parents do not want to give their ex-spouses that information).
If you will have other siblings entering or graduating from college, be sure to rerun for all scenarios of number of college students. For example, if a sibling currently in college graduates while you are in college, your net price could go up after s/he graduates.
@circuitrider: Disagree with everything in your post #8 above. It may have been your experience, but certainly not all law students study in groups.
While forming a study group happens very early during one’s first year of law school, in my experience, study groups are very inefficient, a waste of time, and poor preparation for the practice of law.
There are so many study aids and commercially available case briefs which follow the text books, that the only reason that I can imagine for studying in a group in law school is to quell one’s anxieties.
OP: The practice of law involves a lot of research & analytical thinking & analytical writing.
P.S. Law students do, however, often obtain class notes from past students who took the same course from the same instructor. But, studying in a group was only among first year law students, and typically lasted for just one semester.
OP: MBA programs require students to work in groups as part of a team with individual responsibilities.
During law school, this may never be required of a student unless involved in moot court or mock trial.
Another reason that working in groups rarely occurs during one’s law school years is that law students compete against one another for high grades & high class rank in order to compete for the best jobs (federal clerk or biglaw).
Thank you all for your advice and wisdom! I really appreciate it! I have personally visited Rice and used virtually toured UPenn and Columbia and I liked all three campuses. One of the benefits that Rice has over the UPenn and Columbia is that I can graduate in three years with the number of AP credits that I have, however, I know that Columbia and UPenn have better opportunities and programs related to my major and future career. I also saw that Rice built the Kraft Hall for their School of Social Sciences which was a nice addition considering my intended major. I honestly do not mind moving to the Northeast, even after living in Georgia my entire life and I would prefer a school with at least some aspects of a social life. With how competitive RD is, I think ED would be my best shot at being admitted to one of these schools, but there are many factors to consider in choosing which school to apply to with ED.
“You want to be an entrepreneur, go ahead and pursue an MBA. You want to be a partner, go to law school.”
If interested in working for a large law firm, partnerships are rare–even non-equity partnerships.
Entrepreneurship is not the only career path for an MBA.
These type of generalizations made by another poster are misleading and over simplified. There are many specialties offered in MBA programs beyond entrepreneueship.
If you want information about salaries & bonuses for graduates of the top 50 MBA programs as well as for salaries & bonuses for biglaw associates paid on the Cravath scale, I started another thread on the MBA forum a few days ago which lists this information.
Several law schools offer a combined JD/MBA degree program. Usually it takes 4 years to complete, but there may be some law schools which offer a 3 year joint degree program.
Do you prefer to work alone or to work with a small group ?
I read about the combined JD/MBA degree programs before and was actually intending to apply and enroll in a 3-year program after finishing my undergraduate degree. As my intended career is to become a corporate or M&A attorney, I thought having an MBA would supplement my law degree when working for a corporation. I prefer to work in groups, rather than working alone.
OP - You are the first generation in your family to attend college; you’re a URM. You’re going to wind up with a lot of good choices comingyourway, some not even on your radar right now. Any T50 college or university will get you where you want to go. Don’t get too wedded to one career path; see what internships are available once you get your bearings. Take a few classes outside your comfort zone. And, have fun.
Interesting that you mention M&A work. The higher up one ventures among biglaw firms, the more corporate law becomes synonymous with M&A work.
If you prefer to work in small groups as opposed to working alone, then I urge you to consider working for two years after finishing undergraduate school, then apply to MBA programs.
Most biglaw associates only last 4 to 5 years before being asked to leave or leaving on their own due to job dissatisfaction.
If open to another undergraduate major, then consider economics as it will prepare you for either path that you decide to take with respect to graduate school.