Rice vs Williams vs CMC

College Search & Selection
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I’ve never really used CC before , but hopefully you all can help me . I have 6 days to decide and have no idea what I’m going to do.
I’m a Hispanic girl from Texas hoping to major in history or government , although I have an interest for film and marketing as well. As you can see, I am hoping to do a lot of exploration in college.
RICE: I like Rice because it is close to home and close to the college where my friends will be going . It is also offering me the most money. I have family in the Houston area, so that’s good as well. However , I’ve heard the students are cutthroat competitive and extremely awkward. I also feel like since it is so STEM-focused, the Humanities department might not be getting the same opportunities as STEM students. I really don’t want to go to a college where I’ll feel like second class . However, when I visited, I really got along with the head of the History department . As a vegan, I thought their food selection was decent enough. I’m a little discouraged by the humid climate . Rice definitely had the most beautiful campus (inside and out).
CMC: I loved the opportunities that the college offered. I felt that their History department was very advanced . I liked how student-led the school was, meaning that I would be able to leave a mark. I also liked how one-on-one everything felt. The weather was perfect and campus was beautiful. Socially, I felt that the students were extremely social, and the wild partying is something I would have to grow accustomed to. CMC offered the least aid , and I would be in debt after graduation. I don’t think it’s worth it when other schools are offering more. However , I learned that I could request for them to equalize the aid that other schools are offering. Also, campus was beautiful (loved how close it is to the other colleges ) and the dorms were big.
Williams: I feel like CMC and Williams are very similar in the opportunities that they offer. The students at Williams are more my fit, in the sense that they’re quiet and chill. I loved campus from outside, but the inside was not as impressive. Dorms were pretty tiny, and the restroom situation was awkward. The weather is soemthing I would definitely have to grow accustomed to. I’m also scared of committing to a school that will be in the middle of nowhere . But I definitely felt that I had the strongest bond to the people at Williams.

Based on these observations, which school would you recommend is the strongest fit for someone like me ?

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Oh also, CMC’s vegan selection was not as good as the rest . Williams vegan selection was by far the best , which is great considering how far away it is from civilization . Williams and CMC also seem more encouraging in allowing me to explore different areas of study, whereas in Rice, I’ve heard that faculty discourages double majoring

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I would get on the Rice accepted students chat group. It may be that you have not seen the full spectrum of students yet.

I would bet they are not any more intense and competitive than students at a school the cailber of Williams. Just like the buildings you mentioned in your post- it’s what’s on the inside that matters.

CMC is most likely the closest to what you are looking for and the great weather.

But going into debt vs going to Rice is not wise. You will love it once you go there.

Williams would be off the charts great too.

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Rice is out as it is too close to home, too humid & too STEM centric.

CMC is in if you can survive the drinking. Great school, great location & great career opportunities (although all 3 options offer wonderful job placement).

Williams College is perpetually ranked #1 LAC for a reason. Actually for many reasons. Williams College offers the most growth with the least alcohol.

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how much in debt (if any) would you be after graduating from each school?

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Rice is paying practically everything , I would just be doing work study . For Williams , I would only be contributing summer earnings ($1k) plus work study. Finally , CMC is offering 2.5 k loans , plus work study . But even then, I would be paying $800 per semester. + having to pay off the loans after graduation.

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@MonroeWasAPisces : Also, if you have never experienced Fall in New England, you are in for a wonderful experience !

Williams College offers a semester at sea & an exchange program with several outstanding LACs.

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OP,

Though I agree that one should avoid debt, debt is the reality for most college students. Unless I am misunderstanding, it does not sound like you are taking on huge debt for CMC or Williams. Williams would cost you summer earnings (you can easily make 1K during the summer) plus work study? Essentially, that means that cost of attendance is close to zero, right? There will be–or should not be–any debt. CMC is including loans in its package, but the loan amount is modest. Also, you said something about CMC offering some sort of equalizing offer to match other schools? Can you clarify?

Others will disagree with me, of course, but I would absolutely encourage my daughter to take on modest debt (2.5K per year (though be careful, some schools do not increase aid each year to match tuition increases)) in order to attend CMC, if that was her top choice. I would absolutely say, “Listen, you’re going to work during the summer and work ten hours per week during the semester to go to Williams.”

In defense of Rice, its humanities programs are very strong. In fact, more people should realize that the humanities offerings at Rice, Carnegie, and even MIT are quite strong. They’re overshadowed by the STEM programs, yes, but they’re not lesser.

I don’t know. I’m biased. I’m an LAC grad and an LAC fanboy. Go to Williams for God’s sake!!!

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You have the choice of 3 excellent schools. My daughter is a Psychology/English double major at Rice. The humanities and social science programs at Rice are excellent. Rice has good fine art offerings as well. More students major in STEM fields so Rice has a reputation for that. However, plenty of students major or double major in the humanities. The students are not cut throat but are collaborative. The students I have met are serious about their studies, but do not strike me as extremely awkward. If you would like to send some questions to my daughter about Rice humanities, PM me and I will give you her contact info. Going to Rice would allow you to graduate debt free. Houston weather is humid, but all of the Rice buildings are air conditioned. Rice’s campus is beautiful, and it is in the prettiest part of Houston. The shops and restaurants in Rice Village are within easy walking distance of the campus.

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Three great choices! You can’t go wrong.
Go with your gut. It sounds like you are least excited by CMC and torn between Rice and Williams. If being close to home feels best, Rice. Otherwise your description of how you felt at Williams sounded like the “fit” was good.

Which college just plain “feels” best to you? Imagine deciding against each one. Which do you feel more sorry to say goodbye to? Go to that one!

11

Congrats on three great options! As a Rice and 5C’s parent, I have a few thoughts.

CMC and the Claremonts have much to offer, but in your case I can’t see why you’d go into debt for CMC vs your other choices. The vibe at CMC is very different from the vibe at Williams, and you felt more fit at Williams. I think you should trust that feeling - if you want a LAC with small classes and tons of individual attention, choose Williams over CMC. It’s a better deal financially for you, even more prestigious, and offers the unique tutorial system which CMC cannot match. Buy a warm jacket and trust your young and adaptable body to cope with the cold. :smiley:

On the other hand, if you want a top-tier mid-sized university, you cannot go wrong with Rice. Yes, STEM does dominate a bit, and the strength of the humanities and social sciences departments does vary. But the history department is great, with tons of grant money to send students on funded summer study. Poli Sci is strong too, and IMHO offers an all-too-uncommon opportunity to study in an intellectually rigorous environment where a range of political opinions are intelligently represented. Whatever your political values, you will find thoughtful opposition at Rice. (Though by the same token, it isn’t a terribly “political” campus culture-wise, which is perhaps why students of varying political stripes are able to get along.) The undergraduate experience at Rice is terrific, and it sounds like a particularly good financial and logistical choice for you. The tradeoff is that you will “pay your dues” in some large classes at first, whereas Williams (or CMC) will give you small classes and individual attention from day one. (BTW, it’s true that double-majoring at Rice isn’t as easy as some other places, but it’s very easy to add a minor in a second field of interest, especially within humanities & social sciences.)

My opinion, even as a fan of the Claremonts, is eliminate CMC. It doesn’t even seem to beat the other two, for you, if costs were equal, and costs are NOT equal. There’s NO reason to go into debt for a school that hasn’t won either your mind or your heart in comparison to your other options, and that doesn’t exceed either of them in reputation or tangible opportunities either.

Simplify your choice to Rice vs. Williams. Two very different experiences, with strong arguments in favor of each. It seems as if you’re saying that Williams feels like the best match temperament-wise, whereas you’d have a lot less culture shock and a more robust social and logistical safety net at Rice. If you want to end up working in Texas after college, the networking opportunities to establish your career there will be much stronger at Rice. But if you’re sure you want to go straight to grad school, then the broadening change of scene at Williams and the close relationships with faculty who will advocate for you to top grad programs might have the edge. (Williams is in the top 10 feeders to history PhD programs; Rice is in the top 10 only in STEM.)

Honestly you can’t go wrong, you just have to make your best call as to which is the most right.

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I would eliminate CMC and focus on Williams and Rice. I think Williams is better for history and has more name recognition. Its small and more humanities focused. It would offer a new lifestyle. Rice is not an LAC but its still small. One advantage I see at Rice is that even if you are not interested in STEM at the moment, you’ll get an oppurtunity to have better exposure to all things STEM and may end up picking a lucrative minor. You’ll be able to do internships in nearby companies and hospitals all year if you felt like it, won’t have to wait for summer.

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Williams has better name recognition in the northeast and academic circles. Rice is very well known in its region. Both great. Congrats. Go where you think it will best suit you not on what other people think.

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Re: @CupCakeMuffins remark about picking up a lucrative minor… to be honest, I think this would be more likely to happen at Williams than at Rice. It is a terrific thing about Rice that there are no administrative barriers to switching into any program (apart from music & architecture which have additional admissions steps) or adding any minor… but the way this plays out in real life is that the barriers are ones of steep increases in rigor, early on, in the STEM fields. My Rice daughter, for example, took the introductory chemistry and computer science classes that her CogSci major required, and seriously considered going farther in those sequences… but she weighed the toll that the subsequent classes would take on her overall time-and-energy budget and decided it wasn’t worth it. For the most part, the students who persist in the STEM programs are the ones who were all-in from the beginning. A small school like Williams, with fewer disciplinary silos and no engineering-grind culture, would probably be more exploration-friendly if OP wanted to test the STEM waters at all.

As per my previous workforce-vs-grad school remarks, Rice has excellent name recognition in high tech nationwide, and with employers-in-general regionally. Williams’ name recognition is probably regional with employers, but universal in academia. Of course Rice has a strong name in academia too, but their STEM and pre-med graduate candidates outnumber those who go for grad programs in humanities & social sciences. (Their pre-law support has been weaker than it should be but they’re taking active steps to correct that.) Going to Rice certainly won’t close any doors academically… I’d say it’s just a more practical and pre-professional minded place on the whole, whereas if a student craves a pure “life-of-the-mind” experience, Williams would be a better fit. In day-to-day terms… if a student comes out of a history class, energized and excited about the newfound relevance of some obscure historical or political concept, I’d have to say her odds of finding others who want to debate into the night about that thing are better at Williams. The majority of her Rice friends are likely to say something more like, “That’s cool… this O-Chem problem set is killing me…” Not that friends with the same passions won’t exist; they just won’t predominate. On the other hand, the social experience at Rice is very deliberately engineered to promote inclusivity and work-life balance, which can make it a fantastic social incubator, particularly for introverts who might not have built such robust social networks on their own. It’s definitely one of those choices where each is hard to pass up, in its own way.

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@aquapt Thank you for your insight. I’ve not attended either school so my input is second hand.

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@MonroeWasAPisces , what have you decided?

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I have never visited CMC, but know Williams and Rice very well. Both are incredibly special places, although quite different. Please let us know what you decided, and how you decided. You are going to have an incredible four years wherever you go!

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@MonroeWasAPisces
If cost is the big driver, get CMC to come close to matching the offer. If you are torn, consider the value to staying close to home. It is less of a factor these days but I wonder if it is for the right reasons. I personally value having family close and spending time with them.