Rice VS. Williams !!

College Search & Selection
1

<p>Dear CC forum,</p>

<p>I am a high school senior, and have my college search narrowed down to two schools, between which I flip-flop hopelessly. I know that only I can answer this question, but maybe you guys can help: will it be Williams, or Rice? Here are my impressions of both:</p>

<p>WILLIAMS:</p>

<p>PROS:</p>

<p>-Small, liberal arts college. I have been well-indoctrinated into the benefits of a nice, wel-rounded liberal arts education and I definitely want the "full spectrum" -- more than just Math (which is what I really like). At the same time, I find the concept of taking multiple English and History classes uninviting, so I guess this is sort of a pro/con.</p>

<p>-Math department. Math department, math department, math department. Fully 10% of Williams kids opt to be math majors by their senior year (statistic debatable, but not here!). The faculty is incredible, and Williams hosts the largest summer Math research program in the country.</p>

<p>-I believe I would fit well into Williams' "out-doorsy" culture, sponsored by their most popular outings group. The surroundings are beautiful and practically beg to be hiked. Though I am pretty sedentary now, I know that I would not be at Williams!</p>

<p>-Close student-faculty interactions. Enough said.</p>

<p>-Entry system. If it has the effect it's supposed to, then that's great! If not, well, no. Kind of a crap shoot there.</p>

<p>-Nearby, about an hour's drive from my house. About $500 cheaper than Rice with all my financial aid.</p>

<p>CONS: </p>

<p>-Homogeneous social scene. It seems like most kids at Williams fit into the same "mold:" predominantly upscale, White and more than a bit "preppy." I am a bit of an eccentric. I play no sports, fold origami and grow carnivorous plants in my free time, and think math proofs are more exciting and more mindblowing than inception.</p>

<p>-Seems like basically all of the social life revolves around drinking. Call me an idealist (or a prude), but I like to think I will have better things to do in college than chug myself into happy oblivion. I am concerned that there will be no place in the social structure for someone like me.</p>

<p>RICE UNIVERSITY:</p>

<p>PROS:</p>

<p>-More socially diverse, with many different "niches" to fit into. From my two visits there it seems like everybody is very accepting, and basically anybody can find their place. Generally the social scene seems much friendlier, and I get along with and relate to other Rice prospies very well.</p>

<p>-Offers engineering, which I may or may not be interested in. I will have to try it out and see. </p>

<p>-The residential college system is fantastic! The inter-college rivalries are funny rather than cutthroat, and each college acts as a family (I know from my visits that this is not a myth).
It would be great to be part of a cohesive, caring community.</p>

<p>-Warm! I much prefer hot, sticky mugginess to cold. But maybe, being a Massachusetts resident, I don't know the meaning of "sticky."</p>

<p>-The student-faculty ratio is very good, at about 7 to 1 if I remember correctly. </p>

<ul>
<li>I play the clarinet, and enjoy music immensely. Though I have not auditioned for the Shepherd's school, I know that I would enjoy their weekly concerts and attend them regularly. </li>
</ul>

<p>CONS:</p>

<ul>
<li>I mentioned earlier that I really, really like math. Well, at Rice a whopping .02% of undergraduates major in math, and NONE of those actually get a degree in it! When I tell a rice student that I plan on studying math, they look at me funny and say something to the effect of "didn't you mean mechanical engineering?" On the other hand, Rice has Professor Jones, who is absolutely fantastic, supportive and incredible at teaching mathematics. In the few minutes I spent talking with him I came to respect and admire him.</li>
</ul>

<p>-I am not a fan of Houston. Rice is very much in a "bubble," and in a relatively nice area of Houston, but I realize that by going to Rice, I am committing four years of my life to the city. I much prefer open, quiet surroundings.</p>

<ul>
<li>I live in Massachusetts, so it's quite a haul to get down there. But I am willing to do it and even a bit eager to try out a new region and a new culture.</li>
</ul>

<p>To wrap it up: I am quirky, academically driven, and fairly nerdy. I enjoy the outdoors, music, and math. Half the time I think Williams is the perfect fit for me and the other half of the time I think Rice is a perfect fit! </p>

<p>Any insights, information, or advice for a sweaty college-bound teenager would be greatly appreciated!</p>

<p>Primerib</p>

2

<p>So the better school is $500 less? I say go to Williams. I don’t know a whole lot of students who turn down Harvard and Yale for Rice, but I know some have for Williams.</p>

3

<p>It sounds like you’ve thought a lot about this, and really you can’t go wrong either way. I have one quibble about something you say about Rice though:

For one thing, I’m not sure why the percentage of undergraduates majoring in your subject is important, as long as there are enough others that you have people to work with and the faculty and resources measure up to what you need. Moving on from this, though, what do you mean when you say none of them actually get a degree in it? As a physics major at Rice, I knew several people who majored or double-majored in math, and I am pretty sure their degree shows that they received a BA in mathematics. Also, that “didn’t you mean mechanical engineering?” thing seems like something you just made up. People at Rice have all sorts of interests, and nobody is going to think twice if they hear you’re a math major.</p>

4

<p>You are correct. I made up “didn’t you mean mechanical engineering?” What I did get was, “Math?!? That seems like a horrible major!”
That’s interesting about the % of math degrees coming out of Rice. I must have my statistics wrong. I heard that 20 students per class major in mathematics, and all of those are double majors, getting a degree in something else. My impression from what the Rice administrators told me is that it’s very hard to get two degrees in four years at Rice… any insights on this?</p>

<p>Your input is greatly appreciated!</p>

5

<p>Well, there is a slight difference between doing a double degree and a double major, and I’m not sure what the intricacies of that comparison are. Still, anyone who double majors essentially has a degree in both of those subjects, so I don’t think it’s really accurate to say that double majors are not getting a degree in math. Double-majoring at Rice is actually extremely common, and not difficult if the subjects have a fair amount of overlap. The reason so many math majors double with something else is that there are not really that many required courses for the math major, so many people will be close to having a double just by taking distribution classes and electives in subjects that interest them.</p>

<p>Moreover, I think 20 students per year is really a pretty healthy number, and means that you should have no worries about being stuck in large classes beyond your first year. I believe physics usually has around that number, and we had a nice little community of students to collaborate with on classes or research.</p>

6

<p>Plenty of people double or even triple major at Rice and graduate in 4 years. I know someone who is graduating this year, majoring in Math, English and Spanish and she did it in 4 years.</p>

7

<p>The good news (and the reason you are having such a hard time deciding) is that you can’t go wrong with either choice. I think Houston won’t be so hot except in Sept and May. Sounds like you have to choose between a more flexible curriculum at Rice and less travel expense and tuition at Williams.</p>

8

<p>The only PhD (math)to quarterback an NFL championship team was a Rice math major.</p>

9

<p>i would go for williams =)</p>

10

<p>My recommendation is Williams. These two colleges, while both very good, are just on different tiers in about every aspect.</p>

11

<p>I would pick Rice. My daughter (Rice '07) LOVED Houston- and she had sworn that she would not go to college in Texas! There is a lot to do, and it is easy to get around on public transportation. The restaurants (affordable for students) are great. I am quite familiar with both schools, and I think Rice would be a better fit for you. I love Williams, too, and I’m sure you would be happy at either.
You won’t be there in the worst of the Houston summer, and you will LOVE all the February/March days when you are outside playing frisbee and wearning flipflops. The residential college system is great and the faculty is very approachable. There are a lot of research opportunities at the huge medical center complex right across the street. The Shepherd School is amazing and there are concerts, musicals and recitals many nights of the week.
I think Rice has more to offer.</p>

12

<p>For what it’s worth, your post seems much more enthused about Rice. I think the social fit will be better at Rice.</p>

13

<p>People turn down HYP for Rice all the time. I just visited Rice and loved it. I am turning down Dartmouth, Cornell, WUSTL, and Northwestern for Rice. I met people who turned down Columbia for Rice, Yale for Rice, Yale and Princeton for Rice, et cetera. I’d do it based on fit…which is why I am Rice Class of 2015! :slight_smile: Hope to see you there!</p>

14

<p>Awesome, Dcu, and congrats! You’ll love it here.</p>

15

<p>Just to put a little data into this discussion, according to the National Center for Education Statistics ([College</a> Navigator - National Center for Education Statistics](<a href=“http://www.nces.ed.gov/collegenavigator]College”>College Navigator - National Center for Education Statistics)) 25/525 bachelors degrees at Williams were in math compared to 25/797 at Rice. A difference? Yes. Significant? Not so sure.</p>

16

<p>I feel like you are a better fit for Rice, to be honest. On the other hand, all of the Williams students from my school (only a sample size of 5) are not particularly preppy but many, in fact, are quite eccentric as well.</p>

17

<p>

</p>

<p>Unfortunately, the College Navigator numbers for majors aren’t valid for schools with a lot of double majors, which probably includes both of these. If you have a double major, College Navigator only counts one of them (you can see this note at the bottom of the webpage). Not sure how they decide which one to toss, but it has been speculated that they simply toss the major that is second when listed in alphabetical order (which would likely undercount mathematics). </p>

<p>In [recent</a> years](<a href=“http://math.williams.edu/majors/current-majors/]recent”>http://math.williams.edu/majors/current-majors/), there have actually been about 60 math majors per class at Williams (the math dept. lists them by name), which amounts to more than 10% of each class. That’s a remarkably high percentage of math geeks. </p>

<p>I was unable to find comparable data for Rice online. As of 2004, math was not included on a list of the school’s most [url=<a href=“http://www.ruf.rice.edu/~instresr/ricestatistics/Pages/Major04.html]popular[/url”>http://www.ruf.rice.edu/~instresr/ricestatistics/Pages/Major04.html]popular[/url</a>] majors.</p>

18

<p>Just to let you know, Rice has a pretty big drinking culture as well</p>

19

<p>haha ^ and Williams doesn’t? :wink: Drinking is optional at Rice; you don’t need to in order to fit in or have fun.</p>

20

<p>There are plenty of quirky, non-preppy, non-jocky people at Williams – many of them were, and still are, my best friends. To get a better sense of your future peers, I recommend checking out some of your future classmates’ discussions on the class of 2015 page on Facebook. I think the folks are a lot more diverse / quirky in their interests than the reputation, that was certainly my experience at Williams. Or just google the Moo Cow Marching Band, or Williams Trivia, or WARP, or the Green Chicken, or whatever quirky campus traditions / groups are around today (to get some idea, see here: [List</a> of student groups - Willipedia](<a href=“http://wso.williams.edu/wiki/index.php/List_of_student_groups]List”>List of student groups - Willipedia)). </p>

<p>Sure, there are plenty of uber-preppy people at Williams, and a lot of all-around athlete / musician / scholar types, but the majority of the student body are from public schools, and you won’t see many people dressed in polo shirts and pleated pants, that is not even close to the dominant campus aesthetic, there are a lot more quirky people than there are uber-prepsters, I’d say. And a lot more of the pretty chill jeans and sweatshirts types than either category, honestly. </p>

<p>Given your predilection for math and the liberal arts environment, I think Williams sounds like a great choice for you, unless the lack of an engineering major is a major impediment.</p>