<p>Are you not taking any Stafford loans? How will you afford your medical school when you’ve already accumulated $90K of undergrad debt?</p>
<p>theespys I REALLY think you should not let the college off the hook so easily. Tell them again that you KNOW that they are obligated to honor the scholarship since it was offered to you in writing. And if that doesn’t work, you should reconsider your decision to not spend a couple hundred bucks to at least speak with an attorney who could potentially save you tens of thousands of dollars.</p>
<p>^^^</p>
<p>I agree. The school is obligated to honor the scholarship for all 3 years. You, as the prospective student, were not obligated to know all their rules about their policies about merit. That is THEIR job to know THEIR rules. They are the experts. And, in many/most states, the “experts” are responsible for knowing…not the consumer.</p>
<p>It’s not a good idea to have all these loans. Even $45k for undergrad is way toooooo much even for a future doctor. You still have med school to pay for. That will require another $200k in debt.</p>
<p>It’s naive to think that a newish doctor can afford big loans. Newish doctors don’t “net” that much money to easily make big payments.</p>
<p>You need to address this issue with your school. You don’t need a lawyer. And, even if you did need one, it wouldn’t cost much for an attorney to send them a “threatening letter” that would definitely “do the trick”.</p>
<p>**
What school is this?** If this school thought that this would become public, they would pay out immediately. Schools don’t like bad press. It hurts their admissions.</p>
<p>Is this UCLA? Were you offered Regents or something similar?</p>
<p>If this is UCLA…you will get your scholarship. Just let them know that you’ll take your story to the LA Times…they’ll fold.</p>
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<p>Agreed. While there is an i’ncreased amount of Stafford for med students, starting up with a huge balance out of undergrad is a guaranteed way of dire financial straits in the future. I would not attend this school if they don’t fold.</p>
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<p>hasty generalization. there’s always, godforbid, a chance that your parents might not be int he financial situation necessary to pay off $45k and if they don’t or can’t then you are on the hook for the full amount. IF you have too high a debt, you might jeopardize your ability to get loans to finish med school. The medical industry is declining anyway due to a myriad of certain fiscal and political downward pressures – the pay isn’t going to be what you imagine it is and if you don’t luck out you could get screwed in the interval by huge loan payments.</p>
<p>I didn’t let the college off the hook easily. My parents and I made numerous phone calls and wrote several letters. We talked to the scholarship committee and director. As for saying “that I KNOW that they are obligated to honor the scholarship”, I can’t say that…it may not be true. I couldn’t find any statement which said that once the scholarship was offered, they had to give it. My uncle is a lawyer (but a different type of lawyer in a different state), and we asked him questions. He said a lawsuit is risky…besides going up against a big univ, there were a few statements on the letter that were iffy…in other words, those statements could be used by them to support their case (like a statement saying eligibility and awards are subject to change). He also said that since its a univ scholarship, they can technically do what they want. Federal/state aid would be a different story. I’m not really a drama person…I don’t want to start a lawsuit or take this to court, or even make it known to the media. I’d rather just focus on my classes at this point. </p>
<p>As for their reasoning on why they won’t give it back they said that they did send me a letter last December saying that transfers can’t get merit aid, so they thought that I should have had some idea. Also they saw that I was already enrolled and planned to come there before the scholarship so they saw that it wasn’t really screwing me over. I’m mad about all this, but its best if I just move on and like I said earlier, focus on studies.</p>
<p>As for which college this is, it isn’t UCLA lol. That’s my old university. And I think transfers are eligible for Regents there haha</p>
<p>Yea I’m taking out Stafford Loans. I know 90K is a lot of debt, but medical students are allowed to take out 40K per year in stafford loans (they are given without any type of credit check). I won’t need that much anyways…my plan is to go to my in-state medical school (unless I get a nice scholarship elsewhere). Tuition for in-state kids there is 22K per year for the first 2 years and then 28K per year for the next 2 years (so average 25K per year). So thats another 100K debt which will make a grand total of 190K. But my in-state medical school actually doesn’t look at parent’s financial info (unlike other med schools), so there’s a good chance I’ll be getting a lot in grants (they’re pretty good at meeting need). </p>
<p>Even if I don’t get anything, the 190K total debt shouldn’t be too big of a deal if I make 120K. I’ll just act/live like I make 75K and use the other 45K to make payments and do early payments to reduce the principle amount. And the 120K income is only for internal/family medicine. I have always had plans of specializing (I’m thinking neurology, anesthesiology or the like since I have a thing for the brain haha), so the income can rise to 200K. I’ll be getting help from my parents too…they’re gonna sell their house soon (not just for me…they want to live in a smaller house once my bro is also in college), and they told me they can use some of that money to help. If I still need help, then I’ll just go for an extended repayment (20-30 years). I know I’ll still be paying if off when my kids live in college, but strangely enough that doesn’t seem to bother me (as long as I can afford it I’ll be fine). If all else fails, I would go for the loan forgiveness programs or my parents would take out loans from their retirement account (but I REALLY DON’T want them to do that). </p>
<p>I know its risky to take out so much. Godforbid something bad happens like I don’t become a doctor or my parents aren’t able to pay anymore. I obviously regret going a lot into debt (especially in undergrad), and if I could go back to senior year, I would have chosen one of the colleges that offered me a decent amount of scholarships. But now that its like this, I figured that I can either stress out about it unnecessarily and let my school work suffer or just stop worrying about it and focus on my studies so that I can get a good career where I can easily repay the debt.</p>
<p>whoa sorry for writing a lot haha</p>
<p>*Tuition for in-state kids there is 22K per year for the first 2 years and then 28K per year for the next 2 years (so average 25K per year). So thats another 100K debt which will make a grand total of 190K. </p>
<p>But my in-state medical school actually doesn’t look at parent’s financial info (unlike other med schools), so there’s a good chance I’ll be getting a lot in grants (they’re pretty good at meeting need). *</p>
<p>Are you a Calif resident? If so, then med school costs more than $22k-28k per year. And, yes, parent info may not be looked at for their med schools, but they don’t give you grants. Med school is different from undergrad. If they gave out grants, they’d have to give them to everyone since everyone isn’t including parents’ income.</p>
<p>For instance the Cost of attendance at UCLA Medical school for instate students is $56k per year. The whole 4 year program costs about $224k.</p>
<p>Which school are you transferring to?</p>
<p>NO ONE is suggesting a lawsuit. Just the mere threat of one will likely make the school fold. </p>
<p>I think you’re underestimating how this debt will affect your adult life.</p>
<p>As for their reasoning on why they won’t give it back they said that they did send me a letter last December saying that transfers can’t get merit aid, so they thought that I should have had some idea. Also they saw that I was already enrolled and planned to come there before the scholarship so they saw that it wasn’t really screwing me over.</p>
<p>None of that matters. They are just hoping that their “smoke” will convince you to shut up and go away. They know that they’re responsible. You’re not obligated to know/remember all their scholarship rules. THEY ARE responsible for knowing their scholarship rules and sending out the proper awards. </p>
<p>*I don’t want to start a lawsuit or take this to court, or even make it known to the media. I’d rather just focus on my classes at this point. *</p>
<p>I thought the point of this thread was to come up with solutions.</p>
<p>224K for med school, plus 90K for undergrad + massive accruing interest on a family physcian income: ay-yi-yi! </p>
<p>And, more debt if you decide to pursue one of the more lucrative specialities that you mentioned. </p>
<p>I am beyond mystified that the possibility of avoiding 50K of additional debt isn’t worth the additonal 2 hours this would take to resolve. (heck, if you did have to get an attorney, it would probably be more like 15 minutes of your time and then she could do the rest of the work)</p>
<p>Even the insanely RICH friends of ours would NEVER just let that amount of money slide without a massive fight…</p>
<p>Trust me: for the next three years you will be much better equipped to focus on your studies if you don’t have the weight 90K in debt bearing down on you. </p>
<p>And, I REALLY think you should talk to some 30-something physicians to ask them if 200+K of debt (forget about the undergrad debt for a moment) would be manageable.</p>
<p>I am beyond mystified that the possibility of avoiding 50K of additional debt isn’t worth the additional 2 hours this would take to resolve.</p>
<p>I feel the same way. I think the right people weren’t talked to using the right firm statements. Seriously, if this were my child, I would have that scholarship re-instated within 2 weeks. </p>
<p>*And, I REALLY think you should talk to some 30-something physicians to ask them if 200+K of debt (forget about the undergrad debt for a moment) would be manageable. *</p>
<p>Oh, so, true. My neighbor just opened her practice. Just the set up costs alone for her office were outrageous, and we won’t even mention the 6 figures she has to spend each year on malpractice insurance.</p>
<p>I’d be willing to bet that no one has even called the university president. That would have been my 3rd call (I’d have given the Director of Financial Aid the first two chances). Next call would have been to an attorney, but I SERIOUSLY doubt it would go that far. And if it did, it would be WELL worth the cost, either way (50K ahead if you get the scholarships and peace of mind if you didn’t). </p>
<p>The fact that they offered you one year is a CLEAR indication that they KNOW they are liable for the $$.</p>
<p>As for the lawsuit, I don’t even want to threaten them. My uncle (the one who’s a lawyer) said that the university could take it as a challenge and even if its a threat they could send my case to court (even if we don’t want it to) since. If I got an attorney, it would cost me several thousand (my family doesn’t even have a lawyer that is qualified to work with this type of stuff), and it would take a lot of my time…my uncle said that chances are I would have to also go to court and testify/present my case (in addition to my lawyer). He also said that since the college has their own legal department, they’re probably not gonna fold at a threat (especially from ONE student), since they’re much bigger and more powerful than me and whatever lawyer I could get. And he finished off by saying that even though you guys all have good points brought up in this thread, along with the points my parents and I had, none of them are really valid enough to win this case (since they’re more opinionated). He said that, unless I find something in writing on the university’s website saying that “once they offer a scholarship then they have to give it” (or something along those lines), then we have no case. Trust me…I scoured their website, and googled many different things and looked at the first 10 pages of results. I couldn’t find anything that would give me a case. He said that even though we believe and KNOW its wrong for them to do that, they can do whatever they want since its their own scholarship. As much as I am angry about this, there is nothing I can do. My uncle is pretty knowledgeable (he seemed to know what he’s talking about). </p>
<p>I didn’t blow this whole thing off (I don’t know why you think that @mom2collegekids…I talked to the financial aid department as well as the scholarship committee and director many times, and my parents did the same. We sent several letters with our argument, and my uncle helped us with that too. We definitely talked to the right people. I even went to their office in person to talk with the director. I used most of your guys advice (except for anything threatening) such as how its THEIR mistake, how students aren’t supposed to know the rules, how I did nothing wrong, etc. None of that worked, but now that I have a scholarship for one year, I don’t want to risk that being taken away by threatening them. I’ve tried to do everything I can (short of threats), and now that its over, its probably just best for me to move on. </p>
<p>Anyways, no lol I’m actually a Georgia resident. I was OOS at UCLA. Our in-state medical school is Medical College of Georgia…tuition is 22K for the first 2 years and 28K for the third and fourth year. 3 of my cousins went there and they got a decent amount of grants (since they didn’t report parent info). It’s also not too hard to get into, especially for in-state kids. As for the debt, yea it does suck…its a burden. But it will be under 200K (medical school in my state doesn’t cost 224K…thats ridiculous for a state school unless you’re OOS). The interest isn’t accruing…my interest rate is low and my parents are making payments while I’m in school.</p>
<p>There are a lot of doctors in my family (thats how I got interested to begin with haha) and they’ve had varying amounts of debt. They said repaying 200K is doable…although its good to have less so you can spend a lot more on other things like vacations, good car, etc. I know doctors have their expenses like insurance (but 6 figures is awfully pricey for malpractice insurance…one of my uncles pays 60K a year and my cousin who just started pays like 72K a year I think). And idk if I want to start my own office anyways (maybe with a couple other doctors I might).</p>
<p>schooner- we e-mailed a letter to the chancellor, but he told us that he was forwarding it to financial aid since he can’t do anything about it. If I got an attorney but lost my case I honestly fail to see how I would get peace of mind…that’s just more money my parents would lose (aka less money they can pay for my college). And for all we know, the one year scholarship could just be their way of making it up to us for doing this and causing inconvenience. They did admit that it was their mistake, so I have a feeling they are being sincere.</p>
<p>I would take the free year at the California school and then transfer to any in-state public that I could commute to, if money is an issue. You are on course to be buried in debt, which is essentially what anybody with limited means deserves when they insist on going to an OOS public prior to applying to medical school. Public medical schools tend to take many applicants from their own state’s public schools It’s not like pre-med classes are better or more rigourous at OOS publics than they would be at the in-state public-- at least not to the point that it would be an insurmountable factor in getting admitted to med school in your state public. You are paying for the Socal/Nocal culture, and it is reasonable to expect that that will be expensive for an OOS student with limited means, although it sounds like you are not worried about the debt very much.</p>
<p>While I never threatened a lawsuit, sometimes sending letters to every level of administration makes a difference.</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/867982-i-cant-believe-stevens-doing-us.html?highlight=stevens[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/867982-i-cant-believe-stevens-doing-us.html?highlight=stevens</a></p>
<p>Long story short, halfway through the second semester this past year (his junior year) we got a letter that his grant was reduced $1000 for each the fall and spring semester, and telling us to call and make payment arrangements for the $2 grand immediately… I called student services, they said “someone” would call us back. S stopped in the office every day for a week - and he was blown off as well. So I wrote a letter to the financial aid director, and every level of administration above him received a copy. She called me, apologized profusely, and replaced the grant with a pell grant. That was why the grant was reduced, but they shouldn’t have demanded any payment.</p>
<p>All that to say, the squeaky wheel gets the oil… </p>
<p>That being said, though, you might be better off staying where you are one more year, and rethinking your direction <em>hugs</em></p>
<p>The peace of mind would come from knowing that you pursued all avenues and did everything you could to get that money. I’m pretty sure in 10 years when you’re mired in debt, you’ll have a nagging little voice constantly reminding you of a different possiblity. </p>
<p>By your own admission, your uncle is licensed in another state. That alone should be reason enough to seek a 2nd professional opinion. </p>
<p>We’re not talking about a lot of money here. There is a real possibility that a $200 letter could persuade them to fold like a deck of cards. Or, it might not. But, why you are willing to go 200,000 in debt, but you don’t want to spend 500 bucks to persue this issue at least a little longer, is a mystery to most of us. </p>
<p>I do wish you the best in school though! Such an exciting time!</p>
<p>Our in-state medical school is Medical College of Georgia…tuition is 22K for the first 2 years and 28K for the third and fourth year. 3 of my cousins went there and they got a decent amount of grants (since they didn’t report parent info). It’s also not too hard to get into, especially for in-state kids.</p>
<p>you keep stating just the tuition. The cost (tuition, fees, supplies) without room & board is $30k+ per year. Unless you’ll live at home and commute, the cost will be another $15k per year or so. Therefore, the cost will be around $50k per year (or more by the time you would go since costs go up all the time.</p>
<p>Your instate med school tuition costs are not that much different than what my son will experience if he gets into one of our state med schools. However, we know that you can’t just look at tuition. There are many other costs involved with med school.</p>
<p>Anyway…I never said that you 'blew this whole thing off." I merely stated that I don’t think this was handled correctly. </p>
<p>Since you don’t seem to want to do any more (despite your creation of this thread), I suggest that you take your free year, and then transfer to an inexpensive instate public.</p>
<p>bthomp- my new school isn’t in California…its here on the east coast (closer to home). When I made my decision during senior year, do you think that my parents and I were just sitting on our couches with our feet up on our recliners, thinking that taking out loans wasn’t a big deal at all, unaware of the consequences? NO. Obviously I know what a large debt means. And I don’t have that limited means…I consider myself more fortunate than many people (especially in this economy). I have learned that I can get good academics at my in-state public school, but that is hindsight. But seriously don’t criticize my college choice. My ethnicity/religion values education extremely highly, and for some people that does mean going thousands into debt to pursue whatever opportunities you want. As for my in-state med school, they take a lot of kids from other schools too…none of my 3 cousins who went there went to school in Georgia (and they were all GA residents)</p>
<p>susgeek- whoa that is messed up. Glad it all worked out in the end though! Yea I’ve talked/wrote letters to the director of fin aid, and the scholarship committee (as well as several other lower people in the department). Idk if there’s anyone in the department above the director. Squeaky wheel gets the oil makes sense…I am still trying to find ways to argue (just talked on the phone yesterday with the person who enters our info, person who manages the computer with our records, and the ombudsman on campus). We’ll see what happens. So far it seems futile</p>
<p>schooner- yea but getting into a lawsuit gives anything but peace of mind. Neither my parents nor I want a lawsuit (or even threatening). One of my mom’s coworkers (whom she’s close with) just got done with a lawsuit (something related to money from a will), and it took over 2 years to work everything out. My uncle is licensed for another state, but what he mentioned seems to be generic stuff that would hold true in all states. Idk what you meant about the $200 letter but as far as a lawyer, it will cost thousands. If its just a consultation, it won’t cost that much, but that won’t completely solve the situation.</p>
<p>mom2collegekids- fees are only another 1-2K per year. But it doesn’t matter. My parents are paying (as well as using some of my savings) for my fees, room and board, books, etc. right now, and they said thats also the plan for med school (they can pay up to 20K a year). Tuition has been relatively steady over the past few years…minor increases obviously but nothing major.</p>
<p>As for the ideas about transferring again after a year, I’m not too keen about that. Yes I KNOW it saves money, but I’d rather finish in 4 years (even after 1 transfer that’s barely happening). Seriously quit trying to lecture me about loans and debt…my parents and I already know a lot about it, we know what we will face, and we know that with a doctor’s salary 190-200K in debt is manageable, especially when my parents are helping me pay back if necessary. I would like to point out that med students have a stafford loan limit of 223K which basically means that the government thinks its not that big of a deal if med school students borrow up to that amount (anything more is a different story). </p>
<p>I started this thread to get advice about convincing the financial aid office to give my scholarship back (short of threats, lawsuit, and tipping the media off about it), and I’ve followed all of the advice besides threatening them with a lawsuit or mentioning it to the media. I didn’t start the thread to get lectured about my loans/debt but now that its been mentioned a lot, lets finish that part…if you think I’m overlooking some problems with loans/debt, feel free to mention it.</p>
<p>Btw the last two paragraphs were in general, not to anyone specific</p>
<p>No one is talking about lawsuits but you. I am definitely not advocating that you sue or even threaten a lawsuit. Do you think that is all attorneys do? There is a LOT that happens between an initial letter discussing law and precedents and deciding to file a lawsuit. An attorney will NOT charge you thousands to give you some advice and craft and send a carefully worded informed-better-than-you-are letter. The fact that you think meeting with an attorney will cost you at minimum thousands of dollars confirms that you are naive about the process–which you should be at your age. I just happen to think that you owe it to yourself to pursue this. You obviously have concluded that you do not.</p>