Rigor and math track

Parents Forum
1

<p>Hi. I have some concern about the math track my son is on. Right now, he is in 9th grade, and he's taking three of the four honors courses that are available to him (english, science and soc. studies). At his school, the math curriculum is linear and rigid. The order in which one must take math classes is: algebra 1 -> geometry -> algebra 2 -> trig/precalc -> calculus. There's not much room for flexibility. He's in algebra 1 and it looks like it's closing some doors for him.</p>

<p>In 6th grade, my son didn't have a high degree of comfort or confidence in math. So when selecting his 7th grade schedule, we chose regular math. His 7th grade marks were okay but not great (82, 90, 86, 80), and were among his personal worst that year. So in 8th grade, he felt more comfortable enrolling in regular math again. Then, something must have clicked because his math grades last year were all solidly in the 90s, and his standardized test scores in math were pretty respectable. Well, it now seems like regular math 8 was a big mistake.</p>

<p>These were the options (in order of most advanced to least for each year)...
7th grade: algebra 1 / accelerated math 7 / regular math 7
8th grade: honors geometry / algebra 1 / regular math 8
9th grade: algebra 2 / honors geometry or geometry / algebra 1</p>

<p>As you can see, he took the basic option in each year, while the math achievers are two years/courses ahead of him at this point.</p>

<p>It seems to me that he's facing two different problems: rigor and prerequisites. As it stands now, he will not be able to reach an AP Calculus in his senior year, not even AB. And while he can start taking honors math courses next year, starting with geometry (and likely will, based on his high A average in algebra 1 so far), this will not help him get to a more advanced level of math by senior year: the farthest he can get is to Honors Trig/Precalc. So, it would seem that no matter what he does, he may not be able to get a "most rigorous" designation on his transcript. How big of a problem is that? For the record, I doubt he has or will develop HYPS or similarly lofty college ambitions.</p>

<p>Worse (in my mind) is that his math level is likely to keep him out of advanced science courses. And he loves and does well in science. However, advanced science at his school has unusual (IMO) cross-subject requirements. For example, right now he's making grades in Honors Social Studies that would position him well for AP World History next year. But our school <em>requires</em> that AP World History be taken with a college-level CHS Chemistry I course. That's fine, until you read the prerequisites for the Chemistry, which indicate that the student must at least be enrolled in Algebra II. He's getting As in his 9th grade Honors Biology course, but that doesn't seem to matter. </p>

<p>Up until about two years ago, the school offered summer "enrichment" courses, including some in math, that one could take to speed up to a faster level. Unfortunately, they stopped offering any summer classes except for "credit recovery" (i.e. for kids who failed a course).</p>

<p>Ever since I identified this potential problem, I've spoken informally with principals, teachers, curriculum point people, etc. and they all admit that it's a problem but that's just sort of how the curriculum is structured. But then they also assure me that nothing is set in stone and there can be some flexibility. </p>

<p>So I have two questions for CC:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Has anyone faced a similar situation, and if so how did you deal with it?</p></li>
<li><p>Do you think it is worth it to try somehow to accelerate his math level? Frankly, I think he and I are both more worried about his math limiting his options for advanced high school science courses than we are feeling that he needs to make it to an AP Calculus senior year.</p></li>
</ol>

2

<p>OP - do you know exactly what the sophomore and junior math options are?</p>

3

<p>At my older son’s school, it was very common for kids to take Geometry and Algebra II the same year, exactly for the reasons you are stating. If your high school hinted at flexibility, this is a good option. My own son didn’t hear about the possibility, so when he wanted to catch up, he took Alg II and Pre-Calc the same year. that was a more difficult double-up, but it worked for him. </p>

<p>Another option is paying for a summer class somewhere (even online), as long as your high school will accept the credit.</p>

4

<p>Yes, my son was in the same position but starting in 5th grade and his middle school math had the exact same options. We put him in private school and after 9th grade he was able to move into Honors Geometry and Jr. year Honors Alg 2/Trig. So last summer he took pre-calc at the community college and now he is taking Honors Calc (not AP).</p>

5

<p>He should take geometry over the summer if available or if your school accepts online courses, he should take it online and move to algebra 2 his sophomore year.</p>

6

<p>“OP - do you know exactly what the sophomore and junior math options are?”</p>

<p>10th grade: honors algebra 2 or algebra 2 / honors geometry or geometry. And some non-track electives (e.g. Computer Science, and Applications of Advanced Math)</p>

<p>11th grade: AP Calc AP / honors trig-precalc or trig-precalc / honors algebra 2 or algebra 2. Also AP Statistics and CHS Business Calc.</p>

<p>Because of the prerequisites needed, he can only take honors geometry or geometry in 10th, and honors algebra 2 or algebra 2 in 11th.</p>

7

<p>Easy answer, summer school.</p>

8

<p>“Easy answer, summer school.”</p>

<p>The school does not offer summer courses unless you’re making up a failing grade. And I’ve been told that they will not accept summer school credits from elsewhere.</p>

9

<p>“At my older son’s school, it was very common for kids to take Geometry and Algebra II the same year, exactly for the reasons you are stating.”</p>

<p>PinotNoir,
I may look it to this after talking it over with him. This situation is especially puzzling to me, because in high school, I took algebra in 9, geometry in 10, trig in 11 and AP calc in 12. I don’t know when this “algebra 2” appeared on the scene.</p>

10

<p>Even if your school doesn’t offer summer classes for your son’s case, is it possible to test out? My school allows students to study independently over the summer and then show up on a pre-set test out date to take a test. If you get above an 80%, you get credit for the class and can proceed to the next level.</p>

11

<p>Yes, we have these types of difficulties. Students are placed on a math track when they are in early middle school and you can not move up. My youngest son was on track for a year ahead and he placed 5pts below an advanced mark on a standardized test (on a 600pt scale no less). Despite the fact that he had A’s the entire year, he was placed in regular math the following year, 7th. To note, he’s had straight A’s every year since and got a perfect score on the stinking standardized test the following years. It was one (singular) bad test day. Truly a instance where they system failed.</p>

<p>I didn’t give it a ton of thought until going through the college app process with older kids hit. Also, he entered a math/science program in his high school. Like your son, he was immediately shut out of some IT classes due to math co-req’s. We’ve tried not to make a big deal of it, however know the hurdles he faces in admissions if he does not have Calc in his Sr year. He decided on his own that he wants to take geometry this summer. I let him know it was a big decision, a lot of work, and that he needed to wait until after mid-terms and talk to his alg teacher and GC. I totally support his decision, but it has to be his.</p>

<p>FWIW,
our kids take:
Alg 1, PreAP/Geometry, Alg2 or Alg2/Trig, Functions/Trig or Functions/Geometry, Calc AB, Calc BC, AP Stats</p>

<p>From F/T you can only move directly to Calc AB. From F/G you have the option of going to Calc BC directly.</p>

<p>NOTE: I crossed posts with several others here who are also suggesting summer school as an option. My son did request to take Alg 1 in the summer before hs but was denied, saying that between 8th-9th grades only remedial summer school was allowed, after that he could take classes to place up. He could not take Alg & Geo in the same year. We looked into that and Alg is a pre-req for Geo here. They do not make it easy.</p>

12

<p>Try asking the school why geometry is a prerequisite for algebra II. It shouldn’t be. I’ve known plenty of kids who doubled up on the 2 classes to get back on track. Since they are stating there is flexibility, it should be an option. If not, then there doesn’t seem to be any flexibility.</p>

<p>Also if this is a public school, there should be some sort of on-line program like “Virtual School” available. Last summer my daughter completed her health class requirement in order to free up her schedule for other classes. It cost us $300, but was worth it. Many small schools use the Virtual School option in order to provide more AP classes for their students that they otherwise don’t have the numbers to offer as a regular class.</p>

<p>Best of luck to you. I’d keep “nicely” asking the powers that be until you get an answer that will work for your son.</p>

13

<p>“Also if this is a public school, there should be some sort of on-line program like “Virtual School” available.”</p>

<p>This.</p>

14

<p>“But our school <em>requires</em> that AP World History be taken with a college-level CHS Chemistry I course”</p>

<p>guess I’m the only one who caught this…huh? how does AP world relate to Chemistry? or is this a scheduling issue that is known in advance (and therefore, those who take AP world have to be in a certain “section” of Chemistry)…</p>

<p>as far as the math, agree with the above posters; here middle schoolers are tracked and it is almost impossible to move up unless you take over the summer or double up…</p>

<p>but as a caveat, alot of this depends what your son wants to do and what type of college he wants to apply to; he will get to precalc (either at the regular or honors level)…I’m assuming he can also take AP stats if that is something he is interested in doing…unless he is applying to the tippy top 20 schools or the top LACS, that will be fine unless he is planning a sci/math career…</p>

<p>do remember that this is CC where everyone is a genius and the most rigorous courseload is a necessity…it all depends on the kid…</p>

15

<p>I didn’t read the rest of the replies but I know at my school you could take Geometry and Algebra 2 at the same time. See if his school will let him overload like that.</p>

16

<p>You can also look at changing schools or deciding he can school otherwise like cyber school or home school.</p>

17

<p>Are you worried about college acceptances? Or does your son just like math? Neither of my kids particularly enjoy math - so they stopped (or will stop) after precalc taken in junior year. My D applied to several competitive universities and the lack of calculus didn’t seem to hinder her acceptances for a liberal arts (non-math/engineering) major. So, I guess it depends on what your child is thinking of majoring in. (BTW, D did take highest level of English and Social Studies available at her HS)</p>

18

<p>Most of the kids I knew in less advanced math tracks took Alg. 2, or Precal over the summer. I think if they offer them at the HS, that is a good way to go.</p>

19

<p>I also suggest that he double up and take geometry and algebra II next year. This is fairly typical in my area, especially by accelerated students who want to get ahead - my son doubled up in geometry and algebra II in ninth, skipped precalc/trig and took AP calc in 10th. </p>

<p>Less accelerated students can do it to “catch up” because they did not have enough rigor in middle school, which sounds like your son’s situation. There is no overlap in the material, so they can absolutely be taken at the same time. Of course, this has to be something your son is eager to do.</p>

<p>It is very difficult to cover a full math course over the summer for non-accelerated students, so I would hesitate if I were you, before making this choice. He may find gaps in later math classes or during SAT prep that are difficult to fill. He should not be shortchanged in thoroughly covering the material.</p>

<p>If he’s a good, solid algebra student, he may find geometry fairly easy (depending on the instructor, of course), so the additional class shouldn’t tax him too much. If your son is game, I would push hard to have your school accommodate him - you have a strong argument.</p>

20

<p>Based on what you have written, I think you need to make an appointment with the guidance councilor and discuss what your son wants to take in HS. We have a similar issue in that we moved states before 9th grade and my DS was on track for AB Calc and then with the move and a difference in how they taught the math curriculum, he will now only go to Pre-calc. He, however, is still eligible to take AP BIO (no math really needed), AP Chem (although he is opting out for AP Environmental). It sounds like your son should be able to take AP bio with no problem, and might have to wait till senior year to take AP Chem. In a small school, however, when only one class is taught, he might have a hard time making his schedule work. Again, I would have a one on one talk with the guidance councilor and discuss what he wants to take and then see if it will work. </p>

<p>I have a problem taking math during summer school. There is no way a 6 week class (even for 4 hours a day) is equivalent to a class taken over an entire year. I’d be far more concerned with jumping through hoops in order for him to take AP Calc, and then him not doing well b/c he has holes in this math curriculum. Unless he is looking at HPY, I’d think doing well in math is more important than getting to AP Calc. Well, that is my two cents.</p>