Many admissions offices talk about looking for rigor when considering applicants. I see posts on here and especially UVA where students are taking 10-12 AP classes. Is that the standard that establishes rigor? If a student takes AP classes in STEM related fields like Physics and Calculus plus a few “random” ones like World History, Economics, Computers, is that enough to establish rigor? Or does every possible class junior and senior year need to be AP, including English and Government ( if offered at their school)? As long as the applicant has strong SAT scores, very high GPA, completion of PLTW, and amazing extra curriculars, is avoiding AP classes for subjects in which you have no interest a huge issue that makes you less competitive? Thanks for all your insight!
You do not need 10-12 APs. 6-8 is more than enough. For engineeringly AP calc, physics, and chem and then whatever else interests you.
This isn’t a race for the most APs.
You may also want to check in with your school’s guidance counselor to see what is typically considered a rigorous curriculum at your HS.
My son graduated from Engineering a few years ago so maybe my information is out of date but I doubt that the requirement for AP classes is any less. We attended a Day in the Life of an Admissions Director whereby we were told that Tech is looking for students who complete AP classes successfully because it demonstrates that you can meet the rigor of college. At that time, it was very clear that Admissions is interested in AP classes - not Honors. They also noted that they like to see a student who challenges himself by taking a difficult schedule. (They did mention that they do not penalize a student because his/her school does not offer AP classes.) They also (for Engineering) are looking for the STEM classes such as AP Calculus, AP Chemistry or AP Physics. Of course, most applicants will have AP credits in English, History, Government, World History, and a Foreign Language, because those subjects are required to graduate from high school in Virginia. Many students begin taking AP classes in their Sophomore year of high school. This is possible because the middle schools allow students to take several high school classes. A student who takes full advantage of this opportunity during middle school then is taking sophomore classes in his freshman year and junior classes in his sophomore year. By senior year, those students are able to take the STEM AP subjects that really discriminate an applicant academically. To answer your question, yes students do take 10 - 12 AP classes in high school. This also helps to explain why so many students enter Tech with enough credits to be classified as a Sophomore or even a Junior.
Yet is every accepted student for VT engineering taking 10-12 AP classes? My son made a conscious decision to focus more on the STEM classes and courses that interested him for his AP coursework and will end with a total of 5 AP classes. This was an intentional decision to allow sufficient time to enjoy HS and experience a full life of extra curriculars (robotics, cyber security, multiple honor societies, fencing, etc). It is not too late to change his senior schedule for next year and switch English and/or government to AP. But with AP Calculus, AP Physics 2, AP Econ, PLTW Engineering Capstone, and German 4, I feel his schedule is rigorous enough. But will admissions? His unweighted GPA is 4.0
I can’t speak to how Admissions will view your son’s course rigor; however, your son should have an easier freshman year if he does not have to take English. Also, I believe 3 years of a foreign language fulfills the foreign language requirement so that may offer some flexibility to switch from a regular class to an AP class. Of course, if your son enjoys German he may want to stay in German.
Take as many AP classes that your son/daughter is comfortable with without stressing. With that being said, my son chose not to take AP, stopped at Honors. He was accepted to VT but not Engineering but into Pamplin the Business School. AP classes are a must in Physics, Calc, Chem at VT for Engineering that is what we were told from the advisor. VT is a special place.
I have a sophomore currently at VT and an incoming freshman. The older took 4 APs in high school, the younger only 2. Yet both were accepted. Neither are engineering.
I agree with @luvbeachtime. Take as many APs that don’t cause undo stress.
I have been observing friends’ children for 4+ years. Lots …and I mean lots… loaded their kids up with ridiculous APs in the name of course rigor. I can also name half dozen of them who are currently on anxiety medicine and seeing a therapist. Is it worth it? Are the kids and parents happy? It is an important question.
One of my colleagues has been lamenting the last few weeks that daughter didnt get into her top 2 college choices despite all her course rigor and A’s. She had no life in high school and all for what?
Let your kid be a kid while also reasonably challenging them at school. I think it is entirely reasonable to take AP courses in just the area of interest.
Thank you @AnneShirley for being a voice of reason! Finding balance is so important in life and I absolutely did not want my son to crush himself in the name of college admissions. Thanks for wise words!
Going into engineering You would want to be sure to take AP Calculus, AP Physics and ap statistics if you can. Then I would look at others from the point of classes you would like to get AP credit in so don’t have to take the college class (like some English, history and psychology).
They like to see rigor but 5-6 ap should suffice unless you trying to make up for lesser grades and little lower gpa.
Honestly, the last several years the principal at our HS has been hammering home the movie Race to Nowhere. The guidance counselors have been mindfully recommending taking advanced classes in your interests while going college prep for the rest. I have noticed a big difference just in 4 or so years in the attitudes of both the kids and parents.
I have no statistics to back this up but I do know all my HS senior’s friends were accepted to college , happy, and not overworked. I’ve been wondering if the change was the result of school administration or parents sick of the rat race…or both.
Also remember GMU, VCU and ODU have engineering schools. There is something for everyone. We visited all these schools. Yes VT was it for both my kids but any one of these schools would have been great. AT one point we had tshirts for every single one of these schools because they all excited us after the tours!
My son was just admitted to engineering with 6 AP’s and strong SAT scores. All AP’s were Math or Science based. Took Honors for English, history, etc.
Thanks @collsander and congrats to your son!
See this thread concerns me!! Its the opposite of what we decided to encourage for our D21 whom may go engineering or premed (still exploring interests), and with two Hokie parents VT is at the top of her list. So she could have taken AP Chem next year (junior) and AP Physics C senior year, but we looked at a lof of Tech’s undergrad degree requirements and they all pretty much said you had to take those courses in major at Tech no matter if you’ve taken the AP course and gotten the AP credit. So instead of taking on the workload and stress of an AP class that wasn’t achieving the traditional purpose of an AP class (college credit) we chose to have her take HN Physics & Physics Lab next year and an Engineering Models and Anatomy & Phsyiology senior year. So she actually has AP’s for areas that are not of interest (english and social studies) to get the college credit and be done with them for good (kill two birds with one stone) and then for science she took them as HN courses to get a solid introduction to the material that she will inevitably take again in major in college. (the only exception to that is calculus, she is taking that AP and will have to take it again in major anyway but there is not any other choice as its an AP only class, but she will take AB in high school and BC in college).
Sooooo. Hmm, my logic seemed solid I thought, well intentioned, make good use of our dollars and her time and optimizing her experiences (her courses are challenging but allow for meaningful time spent on ECs and volunteering, she also has anxiety so finding a good balance is important too). But now that I read this thread, it seems my logic does not align with admissions logic! Not sure she will end up a Hokie afterall…maybe smaller schools whom have the ability to look more holistically at applicants than just throwing out applications that don’t have AP Chem & AP Physics are where we will have to focus! I’m not loving the idea of encouraging AP courses just to prove yourself, regardless of whether you get the college credit. I feel like that raises the bar unreasonably, what comes next when 10 APs is the norm and colleges have to look for new ways for kids to stand out, what level of expectations do these kids have to rise to, and what do they then sacrifice in their final years of childhood at home to achieve them?
No one here actually knows what admissions looks for. I wouldn’t change your plan. It’s a solid plan.
@hokiemama24 - My daughter is a chem E at another school. She had to retake both chem and physics but she said those students without APs, especially physics, really, really struggled. I would encourage you to rethink at least AP physics for your D21 since she still has time to tweak her senior schedule.
@momofsenior1 That is the one I was feeling unsure about too, I didn’t realize at first that it was a first level AP (no pre req) and assumed it was a second level like AP Chem & AP Bio, so that was my “first timer” mistake. I did just tell D21 yesterday that perhaps she really should be taking AP Physics senior year instead of HN next year, because Engineering would be the only major she would need to retake it for (premed or research sciences would count the AP). She’ll have to give up her CCP Engineering class or Anatomy & Physiology class though, and I liked her keeping that variety of sciences because she is not yet sure which STEM area she is most drawn to, but might be worth reconsidering…
@hokiemama24 - I will PM you…
Thanks @cbl1 - I think I was looking at a bunch of threads yesterday and feeling guilty about swaying D21 into my logic that may not be reflective of admissions logic, and ended up venting on this thread in the end! We have a plan for now, we’ll see if we need to tweak it a bit over the next year based on how her interests converge. We love our orange and maroon, but we love our kids more and they’ll end up in the right place for them I am sure!
My S21 is interested in VT computer engineering. He’ll be able to take AP Calc, AP Physics and AP Comp Sci but not AP chemistry b/c there’s not enough room in his schedule. He’ll have total of 8 or 9 APs, plus 3 PLTW courses.
He’s a 4.0 GPA kid so far, but that could change. Any sense on what kind of SAT/ACT score puts him in good position as an OOS? His pre-ACT score was not great but it was his first big standardized test so I’m hoping with practice he’ll do okay.