Rigorous Work load for high school

Pre-College Issues Home Schooling and College
1

<p>Hi there, </p>

<p>There are so many Great contributors here who seem active, and I am hoping to get your feedback. I posted last night, but to the back of a thread not really knowing how this worked. So I am moving this post to it's "very Own thread" (so proud of it! haha), so it will be easier to find as you wise folks access the site. here it is:</p>

<p>I have read on Duke Univ.'s website that they are looking for a rigorous course load. My son is starting 9th grade, so I want to heap on the rigor. (haha) However, I'm not sure how to proceed. I've had difficulty in searching for "honors curriculum" for my homeschooled student. There is a great private school locally that has a homeschool partnership. He could take honors English and honors Geometry, but then we'd be locked into their schedule. ??? My first choice would be to continue at home, but I'm not sure how to proceed. What did you all do?</p>

<p>(I should also mention, my husband doesn't like the idea of too much computer time. :)</p>

<p>Thanks in advance.</p>

2

<p>What do you think your son would like to do? Has he been homeschooled up to this point? Is there a downside to locking into a schedule? For some kids, being allowed to take classes at a local school would be great.</p>

<p>As far as honors curriculum, are you talking free standing curriculum? Or online classes? You can design your own honors classes; my son did that. If the reading load and level of curriculum and work is what I think is “honors”, then I called it “honors” on our transcript.</p>

<p>If your husband doesn’t like computer time and he’s involved in the daily homeschool activities, that might be your answer as far as choosing between online and at home(non-computer) or in person learning.</p>

<p>We didn’t pursue rigor as much as just followed my son’s interests and love of learning. It landed him in a very rigorous path, but I was just following his lead and plugging in a few requirements here and there.</p>

3

<p>Thanks for your input, sbjdorlo!</p>

<p>My son thinks he’d like to pursue sports management, but he is not ruling out law. :slight_smile: [He took Debate and Mock Trial for the past 2 years at the Duke TIP Summer Studies program, which has opened his eyes to the possibility of using his clear, logical thinking skills. (inherited from his Dad. haha!)] I don’t imagine he’d need a lot of rigor for sports management, but we figured we’d better prepare for the more demanding of his interests, just in case.</p>

<p>Yes, he’s been homeschooled from the beginning.</p>

<p>I guess the concern I have with letting the school decide our schedule is that I have never done that before. We’ve always had ultimate flexibility to pursue his interests, as you described, and also to see grandparents as the opportunity arose. That freedom will be relinquished soon anyway when he starts with dual enrollment. </p>

<p>Did he do most of his rigorous work via dual enrollment, or computer classes, or did he design all his own classes? (That is very impressive, by the way!!! )</p>

<p>Thanks again for your input! :)</p>

4

<p>I needed to outsource most of my son’s education because it was beyond me! LOL He loves math and physics so he did dual-enrollment in those and other classes for about 5 1/2 years. He did some self-designed classes (such as Apologetics, Intro to Islam), some online classes (with various entities), and a couple of local classes (his honors/AP Lit class that he took for three years was a homeschooled class taught by an English teacher). He also audited (free) university classes and was fortunate to get to do research for the last year and a half of high school. And, he was involved in a local math circle.</p>

<p>Keep in mind, we live in a large city and that helped us find resources more easily than others who don’t live in large cities.</p>

<p>I understand about the downside to schedules. My son considered a charter school in order to play varsity baseball but decided against that because it would have “cramped his style”, so to speak. It wasn’t worth the trade off. He found a baseball team the follow year, homeschooled, and was able to play varsity for one year, so it all worked out ok.</p>

<p>I wish you the best on your high school homeschool journey. Sounds like you will have a lot of fun planning! :-)</p>

5

<p>Wow, dual enrollment for 5 1/2 years? Whoa! That is AMAZING! Was that dual enrollment the way I’m thinking of dual enrollment… like at a college… sitting with college kids? Do you mean he was able to start in the second semester of 6th grade? That is beyond my imagination! haha!!! Your son must be SO blessed!!! How fun for you! :)</p>

<p>Do your colleges have minimum age requirements for dual enrollment? How did you get permission for him to attend? He must have blown away entrance exams? I am very interested, and now I’m wondering if I might be able to start my son a little early…??? If maybe that could be a good answer for us.</p>

<p>But I have also heard that if they enter college with Too Many credits, they will not be eligible for as many scholarships… I guess it’s a balancing act. :)</p>

6

<p>Ha-ha, no, 5 1/2 years is second semester 7th grade. :slight_smile: And yes, that’s when he started but his first semester was online. He started in classrooms at age 13.</p>

<p>And no, he didn’t have too many credits because he was part time, even taking a few semesters off here and there. He did have the problem of running out of math and physics classes at the CC during his sophomore year but our solution was to find an online tutor for his math for the duration of high school. For physics, he was able to audit some classes at the local state uni and did research, as well. (This was all not planned and was due to a very kind physics prof there) He also did math and physics competitions to keep him busy.</p>

<p>He had no trouble getting scholarships and was eligible for everything that other incoming freshmen were eligible for. He did, surprisingly, get his math classes transferred into his university (MIT) which allowed him to start with upper division math classes there.</p>

<p>He is unusual, though. My middle son is not that advanced and will just finish Calc I during high school, but he’s not been a mathy kid. Each kid is unique, for sure!</p>

<p>Oh, here in Ca., depending on the community college, kids can attend class young in a variety of ways. (Today’s budget cuts have altered the climate somewhat, but during my older son’s time at the CC, it was ok. Only initially did he meet with resistance because of his age, but we had the law on our side)</p>

<p>Check with your state laws and the rules at the local colleges. Again, it will all depend on the child. My middle son will be doing dual-enrollment the last two years of high school because he wasn’t ready before then. </p>

<p>And yes, homeschooling my oldest was a great joy. Homeschooling my younger two sons has been less so. :slight_smile: But, they each have their strengths and weaknesses and my middle son is coming into his own very nicely. Now, the youngest is another story…ha-ha!</p>

7

<p>Wow, what a great story you have! I am so glad you are here on this forum investing in others! Thank you – from me and on behalf of countless others, I’m sure! :)</p>

<p>I’ve been chatting with a mom here in Palm Beach County, FL, and she was telling me that even just a little north of us (in Martin County) you can take as many dual enrollment credits as you want… even to the point of getting your AA as you finish high school. I always thought that sounded great until I heard about the differing treatment you get with financial aid as a transfer student compared with an incoming freshman. I am still sorting all that out. :slight_smile: She also said that our local state college (formerly a CC) only allows you to dual enroll for 3 years, regardless of when you start. I’m not totally giving up on that thought, though. I will call them on Monday to just check it out myself. Maybe the issue is that the classes are totally free when you dual enroll and they would like Some of our Money, Please! haha </p>

<p>On another note, what math curricula are you using with the 2nd and 3rd sons? :slight_smile: And regarding curriculum choices, do you have a favorite English/Lang Arts curriculum? We have used Sonlight and LOVED it, but I’ve also been teaching my two children together (I teach my daughter at my son’s level… she’s always done well enough… and if something was too hard I just adjusted it to her level.) I don’t know about teaching her 9th grade work, though, since she’s just going to have to repeat it in a few years for credit. So I am open to new ideas and interested in what you liked. :)</p>

<p>Thanks again!</p>

8

<p>I do know people who have gotten their AA degrees as <em>high school</em> students, thus, they were still able to come in as freshmen for scholarship purposes. It will really vary by college (and perhaps, as you’re finding out, by state/local rules), so it’s good to check college by college once you have an idea of possible colleges.</p>

<p>With my oldest, I always kept him under 12 units a semester because there was one college that said he would be considered a transfer if he took 12 or more. In the end, he didn’t even apply to that college, so he could have taken more but it worked out fine. He ended up with 55 or 57 CC credits and about 19 audited college units (not for credit).</p>

<p>Re. doing high school early-why would your daughter need to repeat it in a few years? Why can you not give her high school credit now? On my transcripts, I listed high school work from as early as 4th grade (honors geometry) on my oldest’s transcripts. I didn’t do transcripts by grade; rather, I did them by year, so I was able to have everything on the transcript. Does that make sense?</p>

<p>As far as math for my younger sons: I’ve used Singapore and Beast Academy for my youngest and I use a lot of games and Mathmania/Puzzlemania to keep things fun. I go back and forth between using curriculum and not using any.</p>

<p>With my middle son, he did AoPS (Art of Problem Solving) Algebra and Algebra II and Teaching Textbooks geometry. My oldest used Harold Jacob’s Algebra and Foerster’s Alg. II/Trig before heading to college classes. (Geometry was a special curriculum written by a local college prof. who taught a group of homeschoolers; it used Euclid’s Elements as a supplemental)</p>

<p>I <em>love</em> Sonlight books, too! I’ve never actually used the curriculum but love choosing books to read aloud and have my kids read themselves. I also use other book lists such as Veritas Press, 1000 Good Books (book lists are online), and <em>Books That Build Character: Teaching Moral Values Through Literature</em>. I love, love, love book lists! LOL</p>

<p>For my middle son, he did some online language/vocab/lit classes through Online G3 using Michael Clay Thompson materials (found at Royal Fireworks Press). Those were enjoyable. My oldest did some classes online through The Potter’s School that were good. He did three years of a local honors Literature class that was fantastic. Each year, the read/analyzed/wrote about lit from a different area. One year, it was world lit, one year was British lit, and one year was American Lit.</p>

<p>For my youngest, I just try to read to him (don’t read nearly enough to him). We use a few things such as Explode the Code and Worldly Wise 3000.</p>

<p>For my middle son, with a vision disability, he’s listened to tons of great lit on tape and just reads what he wants. This year, he work with an online writing tutor through Write Guide. He has natural strength in L. Arts but his vision disability has made it challenging.</p>

9

<p>So I definitely have a Lot more researching to do regarding AA’s and what kind of credit is given, as you said, especially as he is figuring out what colleges he’s interested in. What a very interesting and Fine idea to Audit classes as a way to get information to which you might not otherwise have access! So whatever college class you audit would count as a two semester high school class… and of course looks great on your transcript! :slight_smile: That is another question for me to ask the local state college… does that count as dual enrollment (and therefore count against my 3 year maximum)? </p>

<p>Your comments and help are so valuable to me! :slight_smile: </p>

<p>The mom I was telling you about before also mentioned The Potters School, and I have spent quite a while this afternoon looking into their website. Did you/your son find their coursework as rigorous as they indicate? I was impressed by their website, and I am definitely interested in finding out more about them. Were there any downsides regarding using their classes? (I’m also going to see if I can find some independent reviews soon.)</p>

<p>I will be going to Orlando tomorrow, so I won’t be doing much online. Hope you have a great Sunday, and thank you so much for your Thoughtful Responses! Wow!</p>

<p>When I get home, maybe on Monday or Tues, I hope to be able to really delve into all those curriculum ideas you gave me. Thanks again!!!</p>

10

<p>I’ve been a student at The Potter’s School since grade 6–starting with their Writer’s Workshop. I’ve all my English classes through them and Math classes. I will be a senior this year and doing Calculus AB/BC.</p>

<p>I have learned tons and would highly recommend them from a student’s view point. It is rigorous enough for me to have received a high PSAT score and SAT score.</p>

11

<p>Check out Lee Binz’s website–the Homescholar. She specializes in homeschool high school, transcripts. I’ve used her services both paid and free and her ebooks. Lots of good advice. There are many ways to show rigor: reading lists, projects, published articles, stellar subject test scores. Pennsylvania homeschoolers has active and well-reviewed distance AP classes with a real teacher.</p>

12

<p>The true-to-the-book method of homeschooling is using books. If your son is really motivated, there is nothing better than having him choose the courses he wants to take, ordering the appropriate textbooks, then tanking through them chapter by chapter, and solving the problems at the end of them.</p>

13

<p>A rigorous high school education for a selective school usually means: four years foreign language, four years math, three or four years of science, two or three of which had labs, four years of English and Social Sciences (two or three usually). You want these to be of the highest quality available to you.</p>

<p>Also, selective schools will want some outside verification beyond “mommy” grades. Dual enrollment in college classes is one way to do this. (My senior will graduate high school with 26 college credits.) Another way is to enroll your student in some online courses that are graded or public or private school classes. Yet another way is to have your student take some SAT II subject tests. Most selective schools will want at least a couple of these anyway (definitely math for one). These test high school level knowledge on many different subjects. And a final way to provide outside verification of the level at which your child is working, is to get an AP score. Your child does not have to take an AP class, they can self study and take the AP test. You can also find AP classes online.</p>

14

<p>I attend to a “rigorous” high school with SAT score average of 2140
(My year is especially competitive and its SAT score is probably 2180+)</p>

<p>Pros:

  1. You go well beyond your limits. Getting a “36” and “35” and “34” on Math, English, Science in ACT was a breeze. Heck, the 99th percentiles were jokes in our school.
  2. Your child will often find times working until 5-6 AM depending on his classes (Usually, AP Physics…)
  3. Your GPA will be graded harsher depending on which school you attend (93 is B in our school)</p>

<p>Cons:

  1. If you attend a grade deflation high school, chances of going to colleges from rank 25ish to 50ish is similar if not worse to those attending a regular “public” high school
  2. Public high school students will probably work 100000000% less than your child and go to similar colleges if not better.
  3. The grade deflation that makes an “impossible” 93 or 95 will been to colleges as simple
    3.33 or 3.67. If the high school that you are applying do this, then your child’s GPA will be VERY low: I regret going to this school because I messed up 1 year and…GPA is all messed up.
    **OFC: This does not apply to the PROMINENT top schools for colleges are aware of this fact. However, those schools that are not as prominent suffers from “grade deflation” although supplied with great education. Personally, it is all about perspective. I have below 3.5 and I can apply to top 18-50 colleges easily with reaches/high match. However, I feel that earning that “below 3.5” took me more effort than getting all A’s in a top 150 public high school (which I could have gone to better colleges)</p>