How much do you all think the “top” music conservatories/schools scrutinize high school transcripts with respect to “rigorousness”? My S has good grades but goes to a school with no AP classes, but he has a challenging schedule. No “filler” classes, not even phys ed (waived because of marching band.)
I’m asking because he’s been taking the jazz (big) band class without getting credit because it’s over the maximum number of academic classes allowed by our school system. He attends every day, takes all the tests, etc., even gets graded. I don’t think anyone other than the director even knows he’s not officially in the class, and even he forgets most of the time. But, obviously, it doesn’t appear on his transcript. I’m wondering if it’s worth an effort to try get some “official” acknowledgement on the transcript that he’s doing this. He also takes another external class, but he has a secondary transcript for that one.
If the transcript isn’t critical, he’ll just list that he participates on an “audit” basis on his resume, along with all of his other performance groups. I don’t really want to tackle the school administration if it’s not going to add value.
@clarinetdad16 has it correct. Unless you are talking an academic music degree, the transcript and having taken the Jazz course would have little bearing on getting into a school of music itself, conservatory or as part of a larger college. However, the transcript can matter at programs like U Mich, Northwestern, Vanderbilt, USC, etc where you have to get in academically as well as in the music school (as has been said ad infinitum, music school for performance is almost entirely the audition and a teacher willing to teach you).
The other thing to keep in mind is that those schools understand about those going into music performance, so they don’t expect a ton of AP classes and the like, because of the workload music kids are under, and they aren’t quite as strict with GPA and SAT scores and such. If your son has good grades and such with a challenging schedule, I think that you probably won’t have to worry about the academic side (if your son was a C student taking a light schedule, that would probably work against you) given what you have said. It is good he keeps up his grades and has a challenging schedule, in that it may mean he gets some academic scholarship money, but in terms of admission he should be fine.
@musicprnt - at some schools the music kids are actually the highest academic achievers in high school. At the “elite” universities (non-conservatory) there will be kids who get into music but are rejected academically - which is a no. And if they require 2 SAT Subject Tests (Rice), the student must have taken them…
And not that it matters, some of the highest test scorers are also the highest performing musicians and go to Curtis, Colburn, etc. where test scores don’t carry weight.
@clarinetdad16:
I wasn’t implying that music students couldn’t be high achievers, I saw more than few of them when my son was at Juilliard Pre college. However, a lot of those kids also tailed off musically as their academic loads increased, when they started with all the AP classes and such. It also depends on the instrument and the level of playing, with a wind instrument the numbers of hours a day you practice, for example, is very different than piano or violin, and on piano or violin it can be a lot more difficult to maintain a heavy academic load and get practice time in (some do it, of course), with a wind instrument it is very, very hard to practice, physically, more than a couple of hours a day at most (I played clarinet through school, for example), whereas with violin and piano it is often a lot more than that so it can be a different experience.
My point simply was that with music students, schools like Vanderbilt and U of Mic and Northwestern and Rice make allowances for kids who are doing music performance, that they will admit kids academically that are music performance majors that they might otherwise not admit if they were academic only, they understand that for many music students that the hyper level courses, the 8 AP classes and so forth, may not be possible given their involvement in music, and that if choosing between taking a hyper academic load or pulling back on the load to work on their music, I would tell them to work on the music, because no matter how many ap’s you have, no matter your GPA, if your audition is lacking, you won’t get into the music school, so the academic admit wouldn’t matter, 4.0’s and 2200 SAT’s and such don’t get you into a music program (performance I am talking,not academic music). That doesn’t mean a music student can sluff off on their school work, it means whatever classes they do take they should do well, get good scores on the tests that are required, just that they don’t need to be quite elite to get admitted academically as a music performance major.
Conservatories look at academics less than universities. However, they do want to see that you can handle the work. Music theory is not a cake walk. A 2.0 GPA might not show you can cut it.
If you are looking at a university as one of your choices, be sure to look at how they award money. There are schools that will stack talent and academic awards. So if you are in need of a lot of Fin Aid, the better the grades the more potential money at some schools. 2 years ago, Florida St. waived out of state tuition, offered talent money and academic money to my D. My point, do not give up on your high school grades, you might just need them if you don’t get into your dream conservatory.
Thanks for the feedback. The grades are good. Just wondering whether he should try to get the class he’s not getting credit for noted on the transcript but I think we’ll just note it on the “resume” and leave it at that.
If a school doesn’t offer AP classes, then a student like this is taking the most rigorous classes offered at his school, which is all even the Ivies would require. Plus he is taking a class outside of school, and an extra one inside of school.
As for haggling over credit, I am curious why the school has a limit on the number of classes a student can take. So it certainly might be reasonable to ask about credit.
If that is not possible, I would have the teacher write a note explaining the school limit, and that your son took the class, did all the work and what the grade was- and that note should be enclosed with the transcript that the guidance counselor sends out. We did this for different reasons (health required some absences but also our daughter took weekend music classes; both were explained in a letter sent along with the transcript).
As long as your child has decent grades, what does it matter. My own child never took any advanced placement courses or even the advanced regents diploma offered here in NY state. His average was above 90. He scored above 90 on all his state regents tests and was awarded some special recognition on his record/diploma for doing so. Can’t even tell you what is was. No schools he auditioned for had a problem with his grades or the fact that he never took anything advanced.
Grades that are negative can matter, a C student may face more scrutiny at a conservatory. As far as getting good grades go, other posters are correct, if you are applying to a music school in a university, with strong grades and test scores you might get more academic merit money, so it is probably a good idea to keep your grades up and get as strong test scores as you can, it will make the academic admit easier, but also may mean more money from those programs that give both music and academic merit money. At a conservatory, on the other hand, unless your grades are really bad, you will be fine, given they don’t give academic merit aid.
If only we had crystal balls-- I learned, when my daughter was admitted to IU Jacobs with a good talent scholarship, that she should have taken AP tests after all, to place out of a lot of academic requirements that would clutter up her schedule, should she have decided to go there. She ended up instead at a pure conservatory where APs would not have made any difference. But had she gone to IU she’d have been bogged down with required courses that others would not have had to take. When she was in high school, this never occurred to us.
D dual enrolled and AP’d out of a semester of classes at Oberlin. Not that it will save money since the music program is 8 semesters, but it will make her senior year a lot less cluttered and allow her to focus on graduate auditions.