rising senior; What are my chances at top tier schools/ ivies?

Chance Me / Match Me!
21

Your chances without being a recruited athlete are currently on the lowish side. Your 2160 SAT I is on the low side of the 25-75% range for UChicago (2100-2350 range). Your GPA is solid, though I’m not sure that your curriculum is that strong compared to other applicants for those schools. Your ECs are focused mainly on swimming and volunteer activities, so swimming is going to count for a lot.

If you are a recruited athlete, however, your chances go up dramatically. Ivies and other top colleges generally use the Academic Index when evaluating whether recruited athletes fit within their academic parameters. You can find it here:

http://www.collegeconfidential.com/academic_index_calculator/

You don’t mention your class size, but using a class size of 300 and top 10% plus the scores that you reported, I calculate your current AI as 209.5 (out of a perfect 240). That’s right on the edge of where you want to be to look really attractive academically, as a recruited athlete.

http://www.tier1athletics.org/2013/03/22/harvard-academic-standards-for-athletes/
http://www.tier1athletics.org/2012/11/05/interpreting-the-academic-index-number/

The more attractive you are as an athletic recruit, the less high your AI needs to be, as long as it meets the accepted standard (176 is the bottom end cutoff), but for someone like you who is not a top recruit, the higher the better. So getting your SAT I and II scores up would definitely help make the case. Beyond that, it depends on whether the coach wants to recruit you.

Yale is notorious for recruiting less athletes than other Ivies, a policy started by former president Richard Levin:

http://yaledailynews.com/blog/2011/09/22/up-close-elis-beat-recruiting-cap/

Chicago as a DIII school is going to be less competitive than DI Ivies. Berkeley is in another galaxy altogether, but not high on your list.

I think it comes down to a calculus of how badly you want Yale, how much interest you can get from the coach to recruit you, and how much higher you can get your AI. If the coach wants you and you improve a few spots, there’s no reason you can’t get in to Yale. On the other hand, Chicago is just as good a school (better in many areas), and the coach really wants you.

What’s also unclear in all of this is what your interests and personality are like, and how these different schools might fit you. That’s definitely something to think about.

22

thank you so much for the feedback- it is very helpful!! I have a big swim meet in 2 weeks where I am hoping to drop some time and hopefully get on the D1 coaches radar. You are right about Yale, they can’t recruit very many people so it is an outstandingly competitive process. Harvard might be able to boost your application in admissions even if you are not being recruited (to be a walk on in fall). I’m not totally sure yet, I have to meet with the coach. Also my class size is around 300, so that calculation is accurate.

23

You should also note that coaches all use the AI, so when talking to a coach about possible recruitment it’s helpful to know what your AI is, along with your swimming times. Coaches mainly care about your athletics, and then want to know your AI to see how competitive you will be.

It’s also good to know how your swim times stack up. Cornell lists specific target times for recruitment purposes, which may be useful as a general guide to Ivy standards:

http://www.cornellbigred.com/documents/2014/12/18/Recruiting_times.pdf

So if you can say something like “I’m a swimmer with a sub 55 second 100-meter free time [or whatever is applicable to you] and an AI of 210” then you will definitely be speaking their language, and will hopefully get their attention.

Here are Yale’s top 2014-2015 women’s times:

http://static.psbin.com/x/0/4j5m5nucdg3cc4/individual.2014.2015.PDF

Williams and UChicago are going to be much less competitive. Here’s UChicago’s top 2014-2015 women’s times, for comparison:

http://static.psbin.com/j/h/dt5rai9azk3w45/womens-top-times-individual-2014-15.pdf

24

It’s not clear in all of this whether Chicago might not be a better fit for you than Yale, both academically and athletically. The coach really wants you, and there might be less pressure and more attention as a top 3 recruit than someone who squeaks on to Yale’s roster, or who has to fight aggressively to get recruited.

What are you interested in academically? I understand that you spent time at Yale swimming and loved it, but other than that what appeals to you about Yale as an environment?

25

For me, academics is a priority over athletics. Of course UChicago and Yale are probably equivalent academically, but in terms of attention as an athlete, I’m not too concerned. I’m honestly a little worried about Uchicago’s reputation as the university where “fun comes to die”, however that being said I know it is what you make of it and I loved it during my tour. Yale and Harvard were two colleges where I was giddy w/ excitement walking around and touring. I really love the atmosphere and because I am interested in politics/diplomacy in college, they are a great place to be.

26

I understand that academics are your priority. However, your best chance by far to get in to one of the top schools you listed is as an athletic recruit. Since you were a Junior Nationals qualifier, you should be in the right range.v You might want to check out this discussion:

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/athletic-recruits/1301331-female-swimmer-reality-check-p1.html

Yale, Harvard and UChicago are all great for politics/government. Hard to go wrong with any of them. I didn’t go to any of those schools undergrad, but I later spent 4 years at Harvard and 7 years at UChicago. Personally I preferred UChicago, both academically and socially, but that’s just my experience. I have less personal experience with Yale, though it sounds like it would probably be a good fit for you.

Chicago is a bit more interdisciplinary than Yale. It’s a bit easier to double major, and I believe there’s the possibility of doing a joint BA with an MA in International Relations, if that’s of interest to you. Chicago is a lot more interesting and cosmopolitan than New Haven.

You might also want to take a look at Duke as another option. It would probably be outside of your range as an athletic recruit, but it would be another attractive option as a school with great political science/international relations, and more accessible from an undergrad perspective than Harvard in terms of taking advantage of things like the Sanford School of public policy and civic engagement opportunities.

27

Thank you so much for the help! All of this information is really great for me. Chicago is such a great city, I am feeling really lucky that I have the opportunity to even consider it as a school I can go to. If I am not being actively recruited by any other schools by the end of September, I will probably end up there. However, I am still very much interested in Yale and Harvard as a swimming recruit and will see where I stand once the recruiting process becomes a little more clear at those schools. As far as Duke, I visited the campus and wasn’t crazy about it-wasn’t really for me. But I know it is an amazing school.

28

I think that’s a great plan. See where your times fall and if you can get the attention of the coaches. As a Junior National qualifier, you should be reasonably competitive. Raising your AI into the 220+ range would also be helpful. Having UChicago as a strong option is a great luxury.

BTW, here’s Harvard’s top 2014-2015 times, to compare with Yale’s:

http://static.psbin.com/k/n/ll55d2zd401pdc/SDW_1415_top_times_final.pdf

At a glance, they look pretty similar. If you’re in range for one, you should be in range for both. Both are quite a bit slower than at a top program like Stanford:

http://gostanford.com/fls/30600/pdf/w-swimming/20150327_top_times.pdf?DB_OEM_ID=30600

Regardless, by September you should be way ahead of most people.

29

Good grades and ECs, but I would get the test scores up to around a 2250. I think Georgetown and Berk are matches, while Brown is a low reach while Harvard and Yale are reaches. Chance me back?
http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/what-my-chances/1791315-chance-me-johns-hopkins-ed-cornell-ucla-ucsd-ucd-ucsb-uci-emory-st-louis-washington-duke.html#latest

30

Getting her test scores up to 2250, with 750’s on both Sat II’s as well, raises the OP’s AI from 209.5 to 217, well within the “very competitive” range used to assess recruited athletes, and fairly competitive as a non-recruit.

31

“Do you have any recommendations for safety schools? I was thinking maybe something in the NESCAC”

Your SAT score (CR + M) puts you above the 75th percentile at Colby, Bates, Connecticut College and Trinity (and within the middle 50% at the other seven NESCACs.) Any of these four schools would be reasonably safe for you, as would the Patriot League’s Colgate. Hamilton (NESCAC) could be a match for you; as at your other schools, your chances there would increase greatly if you were recruited for swimming.

32

@Rachelemma, how did your swim meet go, and have you had any luck getting on D1 coaches’ radar?

33

@Rachelemma I went to a prep school in Long Island and had some friends who were swimmers, and they said they all got bombarded by a ton of league coaches because they were among the top 5 in the state, either in general or in some particular stroke. So apparently if you’re top 5 or something, with decent grades (which I see you have), you’re in??