<p>Does anyone know when we hear about finalists? Maybe you guys already heard, and I'm just not one... Hmmm...</p>
<p>Two selection committees choose 45 finalists from each campus by the end of February.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.robertsonscholars.org/selection/%5B/url%5D">http://www.robertsonscholars.org/selection/</a></p>
<p>I hope they haven't notified anyone yet; I haven't heard! :)</p>
<p>Is it possible to be a Robertson Finalist as well as a Morehead Finalist? Althought the criteria is identical, the adcom that led the info session said that Robertson looks more for potential leadership while Morehead looks more for demonstrated leadership. She also seemed to have a distaste for Moreheads. I thought that maybe to take away the double chance of a full ride the Robertson committees discard those who are already Morehead finalists. Anybody know?</p>
<p>mradio: I don't know the answer to that, but there are a couple of differences between the two....for one, the Robertson doesn't seem to demand that pesky little "physical vigor" requirement. There are additional, perhaps more subtle, differences I believe, but hard to say. As an aside, it is--as you know--a newer scholarship, and the Robertson folks have done a much better job at investing their funds; it's one of the few merit scholarships in the country (I think I read this somewhere?) that has never suffered from the economic downtown... The Morehead has lost money; consequently, that's why they award only 40 of these per year now, as opposed to 60-some just a few years ago, and why they have a huge alumni fundraising effort currently going on.</p>
<p>oops...I mean 'downturn' in that last post. Guess I was thinking about heading 'downtown.' Sorry... only had one cup of coffee so far..</p>
<p>I don't know for sure, but I would think that a Robertson finalist could not be a Morehead finalist. Don't they both give you free tuition + room and board + books +++
If they were both $5000 scholatships, I guess you could be eligible for both, but as they are a free ride +, there's no way they would let you in both finalist pools.</p>
<p>mradio: I know that students are sometimes finalists and ultimately become both a Park Scholar (NCSU) and a Morehead Scholar (UNC), so those students have to make a decision. So it's possible, if you also applied to Duke, that Duke would consider you for the Robertson--not really caring whether you were a Morehead finalist at UNC or not. But why don't you call and ask? I'm sure they could give you an answer.</p>
<p>One major difference between the two is that the Robertson is a jointly sponsored and funded scholarship that is actually directly affiliated with both UNC and Duke which is why the admissions departments hand out information about the Robertson, there is information about it in the "scholarships" section of their websites and they can talk about it in the info sessions.</p>
<p>The Morehead is privately funded through the Morehead Foundation which maintains an arms length relationship with the school. Yes, the foundation is physically located in offices within the Morehead Planetarium but it is run by and funded by the Foundation, not the university (which might be the cause of the comments that were made by that adcom) and is still more highly regarded than the Robertson which might also be a cause for resentment. </p>
<p>Although they recently added the possibility of students being nominated for candidacy through the admissions process, the Foundation still runs the entire nomination, interview and selection process.</p>
<p>eadad: You are correct that the Morehead Foundation is simply a separate entity from UNC and just happens to be physically located on the campus. However, a lot of us would take issue with your comment that the Morehead "is still more highly regarded than the Robertson." Really? The Morehead, for sure, is older--and with age, comes prestige, I suppose; however, the Robertson is very highly regarded and in many ways, for many people, more than the Morehead. They are both wonderful merit scholarships, to be sure, but I would say it's certainly much tougher to be awarded a Robertson than a Morehead. They award only 30 of them, 15 from each campus. I also think that to be considered for the Robertson, a student has to be <em>academically</em> highly competitive--in addition to obvious other attributes. (This isn't often the case with the Morehead Scholars.) And if you look at the site that gives little bios of the Robertson Scholars, on both the Duke and UNC sites, they are unbelievably impressive. Perhaps those who are Morehead Scholars think the Robertson does not have as much prestige; however, make no doubt about it--the Robertson Scholarship is sought after and very highly regarded. It doesn't have age on its side, as the Robertsons only instituted this Scholarship a few years ago, but to say that it is less highly regarded than the Morehead is just plain incorrect and ignorant.</p>
<p>Question: Would you say Robertson tends to pick among the top applicants (grade and SAT wise) and THEN look at other factors. Or do they look at factors like community service and leadership as PRIMARY qualifications. Meaning, are the winners 1580 SAT 4.0 GPA types or is that relatively irrelevant if you've done some really cool stand-out activity?</p>
<p>Jellybean24: Well, I'm obviously not on the admissions committee, unfortunately, but from what I understand from information sessions I've attended at these universities, and from other past nominees...obvious or automatic admits (those applications that have very high SATs and, yes, 4.0 GPAs) are set aside to be looked at for scholarships. This is true for all scholarships, at both UNC and Duke (again, from what I understand). So I believe they are first culled by their SATs and GPAs...then, yes, as you say..other factors are then considered. The additional factors (leadership, communitiy service, etc) would especially be true for a scholarship such as the Robertson, which is not based solely on academic merit, obviously...but it is the academic merit that first catches the eye of the admissions people, who are the ones who cull those applications to be sent on to the Scholarship office. Again, all this is what I <em>understand</em> to be the case. Consequently, to be awarded (or even nominated for) the Robertson is much much tougher, than to be nominated for a Morehead. With the Robertson, you are competing with 18,000+ applicants to UNC and the same at Duke. To make this small pool--competing for these scholarships--each University is skimming straight from the very top, and I believe those SAT scores/GPA are --before anything else-- what first puts one in the running and offers a fighting chance. On the Robertson site, I believe they even mention (or maybe it's on UNC's Scholarship site), where they say the <em>average</em> SAT for Robertson consideration is 1520. Again, this is my understanding. If anyone else has more insight, please post.</p>
<p>Thanks Jack!</p>
<p>Though I agree you were probably right, the fact that a girl at my school had lower 1400's (don't know, just heard) and was about fifth in the class got a full ride at Duke last year, doesn't really fit with the all merit kids have a 1600 and are valedictorians stereotype. (She was a really awesome person.) </p>
<p>I'm mainly curious about Robertson as opposed to Morehead. At Duke, over 700 admits have 1500+ and are in the top ten of their class, and I'd assume less at UNC based on SAT ranges. So how does Duke pick then?</p>
<p>jellybean24: For sure, this would be tougher at Duke than at UNC, but I suspect (guessing here) that Duke does it the same way, but then once those top applications move from admissions to the scholarship office..that's when all the ecs are carefully evaluated. I did actually talk to an administrator recently at UNC who told me that admissions usually take the top 500 applications to be looked at for scholarships/honors programs, etc. I am assuming Duke works in much the same way. Perhaps it was the high GPA (5th in her class in an academically rigorous high school, perhaps?) that got her in the running...and then maybe she had amazing ec's, too. Anyway...good luck!</p>
<p>"Don't they both give you free tuition + room and board + books +++
If they were both $5000 scholatships, I guess you could be eligible for both, but as they are a free ride +, there's no way they would let you in both finalist pools."</p>
<p>That's true, but there's a pretty good chance that a finalist for both will receive only one, and even a better chance that a finalist for both receives neither.</p>
<p>mradio: I actually think you would be eligible for both. As has been pointed out, the Morehead Foundation is a separate entity from UNC. I don't think they cross-check to see who is offered what, where. And, certainly, with the Robertson..there have been candidates in the past who have won a Robertson from Duke and from UNC, and they had to make a choice as to which school they wanted to attend. Anyway..yes, I'm pretty sure being a finalist for one doesn't prevent you from being selected as a finalist for the other. And what a great potential problem to have!</p>
<p>jack</p>
<p>First, I'm sorry that you felt the need to attack. I really find it hard to comprehend why people become so hostile and argumentative on a site that is designed to help and inform.</p>
<p>I could have easily corrected your comment about the Robertson managing its money better but chose to leave it to just stating that one is institutionally funded and the other privately funded....big difference.</p>
<p>Second, I did not intend to demean the Robertson in any way or imply that it is not highly coveted or regarded. My comment was based partially on the pedigree that comes with age and time. In all honesty, the Morehead is more highly regarded today than it was 10-15 years ago because of the success enjoyed by its alumni which obviously because of time, the Robertson has yet to enjoy. I in no way was intimating that the Robertson was not a prestigious scholarship nor was I even hinting that Moreheads in any way look down at Robertsons . Quite the contrary, I know that many of my son's friends are Robertsons and that he feels that his circle of friends are all "amazing people." I was also responding to the mradios comment that the adcom "seemed to have a distaste for Moreheads."</p>
<p>Graduate and professional schools as well as employers see graduating Moreheads in the same light as graduates of Harvard, Princeton and Yale and in many cases the experiental education that comes from the Morehead summers (which are far more involved than Robertson summers) has them viewed as grad plus 2 or more in terms of life experience which many of the top professional schools are leaning more heavily towards in admissions. Columbia Law for example takes less than 1/3 of it's class directly from undergrads; they are increasingly wanting more life experience before granting admission. Right now the jury is still out on the Robertson, but again, only because of time and its age.</p>
<p>You stated::"I also think that to be considered for the Robertson, a student has to be <em>academically</em> highly competitive--in addition to obvious other attributes. (This isn't often the case with the Morehead Scholars.) "</p>
<p>Do you know many current Morehead Scholars? If you did I think you would perhaps want to change your statement. Admission to last year's class was the most competitive in history. There are at least eight of the forty that turned down Ivies (five alone turned down Yale's most competitive admission class in history) not to mention Stanford and other similarly "prestigious" schools to accept the Morehead.</p>
<p>Last year's seniors had a Rhodes, Luce and Truman Scholar among it's ranks, 1/3 were Phi Beta Kappa, 100% were on Dean's List, 31% graduated with highest honors and 31% with highest distinction, 19% with distinction and 45% with honors while actively being engaged as leaders and /or founders of many of the schools most distinguished associations. </p>
<p>Out of state nominees come from the most prestigious secondary and private prep schools in the country. That combined with a separate process for selecting from every student enrolled in secondary schools in both Canada and the UK generates a highly competitve pool of applicants, and you also must not forget that every one of the applicants applying early to UNC is now up for consideration. Last year five of the finalists came from the UNC admissions pool.</p>
<p>The Morehead does not publish the bios of it's scholars on the web site because from what I have seen and been told, most Moreheads try hard to not draw attention to themselves; in fact, it is one of the defining traits that they look for in the selection process. Before you jump me again, I am not implying that Robertsons do seek to draw attention to themselves. </p>
<p>I'm not sure how you can say so confidently that it's tougher to be nominated for the Robertson. It certainly is a tough ticket to punch but is it tougher? I don't think anyone knows that answer. Any applicants to UNC or Duke can fill out an information sheet that expresses interest in being considered for a Robertson. With the exception of Carolina residents who can self nominate, and the students that come from the admissions pool, the remaining Morehead nominees must be pre-selected by their schools for consideration as applicants and there are only 153 schools outside Carolina that can nominate one student per year. The reason that the number of applicants is not "18,000 +" at each school as you state is because the pre-selection process has already culled down the numbers.</p>
<p>To be sure, both are wonderful opportunities and both are highly regarded in the outside world. The Robertson is open to anyone from the applicant pool;the Morehead starts out more selectively. Does this make it better? Not necessarily! As I stated at the start, my comment was based on age and pedigree. The Robertson still has to prove itself, and I am confident that it will. </p>
<p>The Robertson, Emory scholars, McDermott Scholars and most other similar "scholars" programs throughout the country have all studied and used the Morehead as a template. Several have even drawn their executive directors from within the ranks of the Morehead Foundation's executive staff. The Morehead has gone through a number of changes, as I am quite sure the Robertson will as it evolves. For example, the summer trips were not always a part of the package and the number of opportunities for scholars' travel and work/study grows every year.</p>
<p>Eadad: First, you should know that I neither "felt the need to attack you," or did I attack you. I did, however, point out that your sweeping statement that the "Morehead is still more highly regarded than the Robertson," is simply incorrect, and dare I say it again...rather ignorant. Ignorant doesn't mean stupid; it simply means unaware or uninformed. I am surprised you would make such a blanket statement on a forum such as this. And frankly, I would find it informative to know <em>who</em> exactly finds it "more highly regarded."<br>
And we are all well aware of how much the Morehead is valued by students, schools, employers, etc.. Absolutely, no doubt about it. I couldn't agree more. The Scholarship itself is an amazing opportunity, and the advantages last a lifetime, I am quite sure. I never said any differently. If you read my post carefully, what I did say was that the Morehead, perhaps, had more prestige--simply because of age. (I believe you have said the same above, just in more words?). My disagreement, and one I felt needed to be corrected, stemmed from your one statement that I have already mentioned. When you make a sweeping statement like that, it gives people who may not be familiar with the Robertson (or the Morehead for that matter) a false impression of these two fine scholarships and the scholars who receive them.
Also, please know that I am a native North Carolinean, as were my parents and my maternal and paternal grandparents. Many of my relatives are UNC graduates, in fact, and I am a NCSU alum myself (undergraduate and post-graduate). So you really don't need to explain for me how UNC or the Morehead works, though I do so appreciate a Texan taking the time to explain it all to me. I am also well aware of how the students are nominated, the process they go through, the interviews, etc., and that out-of-state students come from very fine schools. In fact, I even know a couple of Morehead Scholars personally. How about that? That said, I still believe that it is, in fact, toughter in many ways to be awarded a Robertson than a Morehead. One reason is simply that they award 10 less. Also, the Robertson does not award these evenly between those from NC and those from out-of-state (as does the Morehead). So, certainly, for North Carolineans, the Robertson is more competitive. I am also well aware of the scholars who have won the Morehead in the past and those who will, no doubt, win in the future. And I am aware of all the statistics you quote as I have read their site, too. However, I am also aware--just as an example here-- that, often, NC students (not speaking of out-of-state students) who don't even make national merit semifinalist (in the state of NC, where the index number is fairly low) and who have not, perhaps, undertaken a particularly rigorous high school curriculum, often advance ahead of much more highly competitive (academically speaking) students. Now there may be other issues involved--perhaps they simply liked a students ec's better--but I do know that for a fact. I'm not saying it's across the board, obviously, but it does happen and more often than you might think. Those out-of-state students from "prestigious secondary and private prep schools in the country" are also in the applicant pool for the Robertson, by the way. At any rate, we will just agree to disagree. They are both very fine, generous, and prestigious Scholarships. Any student should be honored to be awarded, or even nominated for, either. On a related topic you mentioned above, you might be interested in reading this 2003 article on the Morehead and the economic downtown: <a href="http://triad.bizjournals.com/triad/stories/2003/04/07/daily42.html%5B/url%5D">http://triad.bizjournals.com/triad/stories/2003/04/07/daily42.html</a></p>