Robertson (UNC and Duke) vs Princeton

Parents Forum
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<p>(Am also posting this in the UNC, Princeton and Parents threads)</p>

<p>I was lucky enough to be admitted into the Princeton EA Class of 2018, offered a place at Trinity College, Cambridge and be awarded the Robertson Scholarship to UNC/Duke (I'm an intl student) and now I have no idea what to do (though definitely not Cambridge bcs I don't have any FA). I am so so grateful and lucky and excited, but also exhausted from weighing up the pros and cons of both.</p>

<p>Accepted into UNC, still waiting on Duke RD.</p>

<p>I was offered nearly a full ride at Princeton (they only want $5k a year from my parents) whilst the Robertson is a full ride minus health insurance, flights and a general living stipend unless I'm at UNC (which would probably end up costing around $5k)... Princeton want me to work too though and have a summer job, so it would probably stretch my parents more than if I were to take the Robertson.</p>

<p>Benefits of the Robertson: Duke/UNC have a more chill and less intense atmosphere, in the South so nicer weather (although still snowy/cold in winter) - very quintisential college experience, garuanteed summer experiences - grow into a better person and leader, free laptop and other perks (financially a bit better), probably a much easier life, still a great education bcs of access to profs etc! Sanford school is good. Good alumni network so perhaps better chance of getting a good job, close bond between scholars (I want a nice community), basketball environment more fun....</p>

<p>Disadvantages: I've never been to NC/Durham though so I could hate it (I hated UPenn and Columbia, for example)... still doesn't have the same history as the Morehead/feel almost 'second tier', at the end of the day you are still a UNC or Duke student, coming back to the UK hardly anyone knows the scholarship let alone the UNC or Duke - there are certain benefits that come from prestigious unis, education at UNC is good - but not the same as my other options, not that much freedom in summer experiences (I could probably find similar opportunities for community work and internships @ Pton), not sure I like greek life at all, some of the Duke controversies like the student porn star make Duke seem a bit conservative and stifling</p>

<p>Benefits of Princeton: It's arguably the best university in the US, Woody Woo is great for future career prospects - i also love the course, beautiful friendly campus (less risk because i've been there), close to family (who live in NY), benefits of being near NYC/Philly/DC, name resonates across the atlantic, strong alumni connection, will probs get a great degree, good study abroad options/internships too, really incredible professors, I want to do Politics/IR (and POSSIBLY do a MPP or something, go to grad school or enter the foreign service...) and is v good for that, Pton has the highest per capita endowment in US - this has to show for something, humbling experience to be 'small fish in big pond' - perhaps there is more freedom/more opportunities to access...</p>

<p>Disadvantages Princeton:
grade deflation is off putting - i want to try all different types of subjects and not feel the stress of having to fight against everyone else for a 4.0. i've been advised to only be 'safe'- this isnt what college is about, campus seems a bit too small + cold haha, not a big fan of eating clubs - i think they're a bit outdated and elitist, difficult to stand out - harder to access summer opportunities, socially difficult too</p>

<p>I need to decide soon. I know I am so lucky but I'm scared about where I will regret more. Would really appreciate any input, thanks! </p>

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<p>What are your plans after college? What is your intended major?</p>

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<p>Not sure at all yet. At the moment it looks like I’d like to major in Public Policy or Politics, but I’m also interested in the general humanities and social sciences in general.
I can see myself going into diplomacy or working for an NGO, or possibly graduate school/law degree. Or perhaps something entirely different like film!</p>

<p>My main reason for studying in the US (rather than the UK, where I’m from) is so I can explore all of my interests in a Liberal Arts environment</p>

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<p>Who told you that Princeton has grade deflation? </p>

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<p>The Robertson scholars are hardly “second tier” at UNC. A friend’s daughter did this and it was an absolutely fantastic experience. I cannot speak to whether or not Princeton would be a better experience.</p>

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<p>@collegealum314 It’s pretty well known, I believe. I think the rate is only 30% of each department can receive A grades. They are considering revising it at the moment, but it’s still a consideration for me.</p>

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<p>@Nrdsb4 That’s really interesting. If you don’t mind disclosing, what is your friend’s daughter doing now? It’s quite a young program so the alumni network is still relatively small</p>

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<p>

It may not be better at Duke or UNC (and at Duke, I’d expect the competition to be comparable). I would say that is closer to being neutral than having grade deflation. </p>

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<p>This is a great dilemma to have. If the finances are roughly equivalent, I guess I’d suggest Princeton if you are planning to return to Europe. I think your network would be better.</p>

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<p>Son is a Pton alum and is at UNC now for grad school. For undergrad his choices also included the Morehead at UNC, Duke and Pton (also Penn’s M & T, MIT, CalTech, Harvard, West Point, USNA…) We are NC residents so he was well acquainted with the NC schools. After his graduation from Pton he picked up 2 more degrees from NCState vs. UNC and then professional school at UNC (MD/MBA) turning down several ivies for UNC.</p>

<p>And money did play a large role in all the decisions. When he narrowed down his options to 3 for undergrad it was Pton, West Point and Penn’s Jerome Fisher program. Then 2, West Point and Pton and then just pton. He very much enjoyed his years at pton and attends reunions every year. At the same time he is very much enjoying his time now at UNC. ACC basketball at Carolina is pretty awesome…of course, DOOOOOOOOOOOK would same the same. </p>

<p>You will have a real quandry if Duke comes back with an acceptance for RD!!!</p>

<p>To answer your question regarding grade deflation at Pton it does exist. They include a letter and it is on the back of your official transcript explaining the official “grade deflation” policy. Done for employers and grad schools.</p>

<p>All the campuses are very pretty and look like a postcard. Chapel Hill (chapel thrill) is a great place to live. And living in pton’s “orange bubble” is intense. Son loved his eating club and he is the least “elitest” person you will ever meet. Seriously. But they are different. Son was offered a year abroad at London school of economics or Hungary’s school of science and mathematics (lots of APs) and he chose to stay at pton for the year, he felt it was the opportunity of a life-time. Since he was pre-med he too was advise to “protect” his GPA, which he promptly disregarded.</p>

<p>He wanted to take classes out of his field, out of his comfort zone and really push himself. Instead of the recommended 4 classes he took 6 every semester. He didn’t have a 4.0 but that is not his goal, rather the best education possible while he was there. And just for contrast his GPA from NCState in biochem, microbiology and genetics was a 4.0.</p>

<p>So it really depends on your personality, how you learn best, how much you want to challenge yourself, your social goals and your major. Son was econ calc-based (math track) and hellinic studies certificate at pton. Woody Woo is fantastic…best bud was at Woody Woo and now graduating from Harvard Law/b-school. His friends from there will be his friends far into the future.</p>

<p>If you have any other questions just ask.</p>

<p>Kat</p>

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<p>^^^^^Wow, what a smart and accomplished son you have.</p>

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<p><a href=“I’m%20an%20intl%20student”>quote</a>

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</p>

<p>Princeton, no question. (Internationals need biggest-name prestige much more than do US citizens.)</p>

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<p>@Katwkittens Wow! Your son sounds very accomplished. I’d be really interested in knowing what were his reasons for rejecting the Morehead Cain (/Robertson for me)? and does he regret any of it?</p>

<p>My main concerns are

  1. I won’t get the same friendly community feel. Chapel ‘Thrill’ seems a bit more chill and a better collegiate experience, perhaps
  2. The summer experiences - as you mentioned he was offered study abroad - did he feel, if he wanted, he could have had similar experiences as those offered to Morehead students @ Pton?
  3. It’s easier to get a better GPA at UNC and perhaps Duke too, does that mean better graduate opportunities? You mentioned his friend going to Harvard Law - is he considered ‘the best of the best’ at Princeton? I’m wondering what would be better for my chances of going somewhere incredibly prestigious afterwards (although nobody should ever expect to get into Harvard Law etc aha)</p>

<p>Thanks for your response.</p>

<p>Also @bluebayou that’s something I’ve been thinking about quite a lot. What about the ‘alumni network’ people talk about? Hardly anyone I meet in the UK has heard about the Robertson or UNC-CH or Duke for that matter! But people tell me any decent employer/grad school has…</p>

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<p>My son’s best friend’s girlfriend of the time took the Robertson over Princeton - it’s definitely a valid choice. I think someone who disliked U Penn and Columbia and liked Princeton will probably like Chapel Hill. I have a friend whose daughter went to Duke for law school and felt it was a bit too provincial. (She is very much a city girl and spent a lot of time overseas as well.) Grade deflation at Princeton is real - but unless you’ll be freaked out by not getting straight A’s it should not be an issue. My son’s best friend (same one with the girl friend) did go to Princeton and lost all confidence in himself. I think he was somewhat screwed up going in however. You sound like you have a solid head on your shoulders. Everyone who’s actually spent time at Princeton tells me that the eating clubs are not what they once were. As an interational, I think I’d lean slightly toward Princeton because of the name recognition and the proximity to people you know in NY, but really you can hardly go wrong with your choices.</p>

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<p>Well, for what it is worth, one of my D’s disliked Columbia, Duke and UPenn and LOVED Chapel Hilll and Harvard. Wow, this is a wonderful problem to have but still a decision to be made. I hope others continue to weigh in for you. I would probably advise Pton just because. </p>

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<p>Depends on what type of graduate school you are looking at…top tier (top 5) law schools or medical school or b-school or fully-funded Phd programs. Law school will want the stats and the undergrad can weigh in. Med school not so much, if at all on the undergrad but rather what the student did while in school, GPA, MCAT, ECs, research, shadowing, publications… That is why I said it depends on what YOU want and what type of student you are and want type of student you want to be.</p>

<p>I did say money played a large factor into son’s decisions, both undergrad and grad school. With a very low EFC Pton was the same cost out-of-pocket as UNC, and after matriculation it turned out even better, but we had no way of knowing that until after he was enrolled AND 12+ revisions of his financial aid package during his freshman year and all positive for him. Pton also allowed him to replace any work study, summer contribution with outside scholies. And anything over that was for books, travel, a laptop, summer school tuition at a different school misc. (Misc was elastic) Money played a HUGE role in his grad school as well, he went with the full scholie for med school and the full fellowship for b-school at UNC vs. the unit-loan offered at Harvard, Cornell, Dartmouth and some other merit opportunities at other med schools. B-school money is even harder to find at rates triple undergrad tuition.</p>

<p>Someone else posted on another thread asking if you would rather be one of the “brightest” among some bright students or would you rather be pushed and challenged along the way? Son had 4 suite-mates who ALL had perfect 2400 SATs. 3 of the 4 from their freshman years in high school. SCARY smart. REALLY. He was the only one not with a 2400. One was on the fencing team, the other on the tennis team, the other a rower and then one who competed in downhill skiing. Son walked onto the football team, something he could not have done at UNC. So that also factored into his decision.</p>

<p>UNC is capped at no more than 18% OOS students, keeping with the state’s legislative mandate. So your peers will be Carolinians. And you will be reminded of that! Duke has a student body that is more reflective of the country and the campus feels like pton’s albeit with a Greek presence. We live about 20 minutes from Duke and 20 minutes in the other direction from UNC so son was well-acquan
ted with both campuses before deciding. He had spent summers of high school doing research at Duke Med and UNC Med, so knew the dorms, cafeteria’s, student make-up…</p>

<p>I think you have some great opportunities, it really comes down to how comfortable you will be at each locale and your “comfort” level affecting your ability to learn. Son has said that he went to class at pton as just one of the many things he did each day! It was truly one of the most challenging academic endeavors he has pursued to date and that includes med school and he is an MS3. </p>

<p>Hope this helps.</p>

<p>Kat</p>

<p>wanted to add: son’s longtime girlfriend is also a pton alum, not that this is an academic factor but rather social…his brother who attended USNA also has a gf from USNA…something to think about as an international student! I say this as a mom waiting on grandbabies!!!</p>

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<p>My understanding is that as an international Robertson Scholar you are able to pick which college will be your base, am I correct? My S is a Robbie at Duke, PM me if you would like to know the details (or search my posts) :smiley:
Let me just add that S is extremely happy at Duke !</p>

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<p>Definitely go to Princeton. Though they have harsh grade deflations and curves, everyone survives. You won’t have a problem paying your $5500 that your parents need to pay along with $3000 workstudy if you get a part time job or an internship over the summer. Costs aren’t significant compared to the other schools, you can easily pay it off.</p>

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<p>Costs aren’t a huge thing at all - and Princeton actually increased our financial aid, so it’s totally affordable - it would perhaps be nice though to have a little more financial freedom and security as I haven’t really yet learnt how to deal with stress.</p>

<p>@Kelowna as far as I know I think you can pick, hardly any Robertsons get rejected my Duke… and almost all internationals are at Duke so I would probably be there, I think</p>

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<p>Agree that if you are returning to Europe or outside the US, Princeton would be my choice.</p>