Thank you all for sharing information, perspective and arguments presented here.I have to say I learned a lot here. All in all the goal is you all try help admitted students like me to make a wise decision on where to spend the next 4 consequential years. To that end, I believe there is no absolutely wrong or right answer as it is all about individual fit. But to make an informed decision, it is good to do due diligence and see both sides of the coin, i.e., pros and cons. What makes this hard is like ranking university, depending on the methodology used, the outcome could be varied dramatically. That is why lots of people doesnāt like the US news ranking. I kind of agree even though US news ranking probably messes/changes lots of people lives and even change the higher education landscape to some degree and force universities to adjust its strategies to up their ranking. The thing is that there really is not a best math formula to cover all factors (cost, ranking, employment prospect, student happiness, students life, school reputation, sports, school culture, vibe, greek life, so on and so forth, etc, etc) and arrive at a single universal score that everyone can use to make a call because the weight for each factor could be so different from student to student, and from family to family. The effectively says college selection is a very personal thing. At times, we could unconsciously mix facts with non-facts, mix opinion with facts, mix emotion with rational, etc. This leads my thinking to no-decision state which finally at some point will lead to a decision when may 1st comes. To me, Purdue, RPI, UIUC, Michigan etc all will give me a good engineering education as they are all top-notch. In the end a decision will be made using very few factors and I will stick with it for better or worse. Event if I make a wrong choice, I will find answers to justify it one way or the other, or I will transfer if I really suffer in my choice school. So it is not the end of the world.
I believe even though university education will shape a student greatly in his/her lifetime. But I also believe if a student is motivated, open-minded and has a burning desire to learn and adjust, he can be successfully anywhere no matter which college he goes to. For that I respect whatever decision each student and his/her family reach.
@StudentsR1st Thanks for your reply. My ādo not rely on anything posted hereā was a bit over board, Iām just frustrated with some of the replies here and suggesting healthy skepticism. With two in college, I have certainly benefited from postings for the many colleges we considered. I have only started posting in '17, and really much more of a reader than poster. It is just some of the comment, and especially the negative ones, seem rooted in something beyond reason and our vision. At times some go out of their way to trash a particular school, and if you were to read their other historical posts, well, that level of criticism is absent. So way target RPI ? And why essentially just RPI vs. Purdue. A local who did not get in ? Their x went and is now doing great ? Who knows. Someone could equally over advocate for unknown reasons, or go out of their way to create false account. It would be nice if the profiles had a validation process. Students, professors, guidance counselors, parents, alumni ā¦ I do & would value more. As far as USNWR, I also agree with you. I was merely adding that comment to show what evidence might look like when comparing RPI and Purdue. It was one in the + column for Purdue. That said, having looked at USNWR over the years, rankings jump around a bit and a college rated +/- when you start to research can move dramatically by the time you graduate. I too question their methodology, and their selective cuts. Still, one data point of many.
@CollegeGrad79 Great that you have located some very good articles and sources to back into your opinion. The Polytechnicās Review in particular is an excellent read. Not 100% sure on their selection of comparisons, I would want to see others. Also, I see some reasons to be optimistic. I wish I had the time to find some equally as provocative sources on Purdue. We all know they are out there on the web for almost any school.
Very true @Spark2018 there are problems posted on the web about every college and Purdue would be no exception. It does seem though that RPI has had more red flags for potential students than most schools. Also, for every issue there is often a solution. For example, on average, RPI students take on one of the highest student debt loads at arourd $40k for 4 years, however their engineering grads do tend to earn a decent salary after graduation
Congratulations to everyone who was accepted. If RPI is your first choice and you decide to attend, I hope you will attempt to make it a better place during your 4 or 5 years there and after you graduate.
@Spark2018
So posters cannot make a negative comment about a school that they have applied to and done research on? That is very shortsighted and any reader with common sense will obviously process all available data and then make an informed decision. If we only post positives then how can that be helpful with this very important decision? RPI has almost a billion dollars in debt. That is a fact. Their debt is just above junk level rating. That is a fact. They are raising tuition every year for the next 4. That is a fact. Facts never hurt, I would just hate to not share that info with somebody who might attend RPI and then the financial bottom falls out and they are left struggling to transfer to a more viable school. That is why I posted my comments. Not to hurt RPI, but to just share facts. There was no speculation nor opinion in my post. It was just facts. Son happily off to Purdue. Would have been happy to attend RPI but we just made an informed decision that was best for my son and my family based upon the facts as we know them.
@FLGDAD Context and facts count, and I caution readers that in absent of that (positive or negative ) one should have healthy skepticism. If the research is done the same across the board, in advance of a conclusion, fair game. When it is backed into, well, I would question that, especially when prior posts show no such analysis. RPI debt and bond issues are an issue, but not fatal, and certainly not warranting the hyperbolic āstruggling to transfer to another schoolā. Peer private schools have had similar bond changes up and down, and plenty of strong businesses too. Some do crash and burn, no question. I already addressed the tuition going up and āone of the highest tuitionsā comments. Depends what you mean by āone of theā. More like on par with other NE private institution.
@CollegeGrad79 RPI has red flags for sure, like most school. I prefer positive vs. negative analysis. College debt is crazy and $40k at RPI is high, but, and sorry to be redundant, on par with other private NE peers, at least based on a quick search I just did. Thanks for making me do some homework.
While it is true that RPIās tuition is on par with other NE private colleges, it is also true that RPI has one of the highest average net prices (tuition r&b minus financial aid) of any college in the US. Think their average net price is about $37 or 40k. As a comparison, Carnegie-Mellon is about 10% lower and Cornell, Clarkson, Lehigh are about 10K lower per year, Case Western is about $8k lower per year. This puts more of a burden on families & students (through loans). This also means that RPI has one of the highest student loan debts of any college in the US (Guessing about $40k, where other āgoodā colleges are about $20k and many colleges are lower, or no-loan) In many cases the average middle class family pays a lot more for RPI, than at many comparable colleges. Maybe if RPI wasnāt in so much debt and their bond rating was better, they could adequately fund financial aid for its students.
@Spark2018
Hyperbolic like ādo not rely on anything posted hereā. The research was done on the 2 schools my son was considering seriously and that data was fairly assessed. From my perspective, Purdue has a better reputation among Engineering hiring companies. Purdue has not mismanaged money and amassed a BILLION in debt. No school of RPIās size should have a billion in debt on the books. Purdue tuition has been frozen since 2013 and is guaranteed locked through 2020. Visited both schools and spoke with local Lockheed Martin Managers about both programs and also with Engineering professors at UF and the decision was PURDUE hands down. Sorry you seem to be upset with that decisionā¦as I said in my post it was the right decision for my family and wanted to share what I had learned. Had I known about the debt, I would not have even allowed my son to apply to be honest with you. Debt just reeks of irresponsibility to me and in an educational situation where top schools have great endowments, it was disappointing to see what had happened at RPI since current leadership took over. Very glad you are happy with your childās decision, as I am with mine. Be well and the very best of luck to you.
@CollegeGrad79 Wow so Cornell and Carnegie-Mellon are peers to RPI ā¦ AWESOME !! The $'s you are posting donāt match my direct experience or what CAPPEX returns(which I found pretty accurate). For me, Stevens, NU, WPI, NYU all at or higher than RPI net merit, but close. Now applying your logic, they all should have offered my family a lot more because of their financial condition. Isnāt Cornell needs based only, not merit ā¦ I c/b wrong. SUNY schools, half before loans, that is the real gem in NY for residents. Friends and neighbors in my school district, none currently going to RPI, all report about the same. As far as the loan issue, asked and answered. As far as the bond and other related financials, perhaps they should not have built the EMPAC with major costs overruns, or continued to fund defined benefit pensions. But then there would be posts saying itās a 200 year old schools falling apart, not modernizing for āthe 21st centuryā and not honoring retirees.
@spark2018 You make a good point. Carnegie-Mellon and Cornell are no longer peers to RPI in science and engineering. Thatās how much the college has dropped over the years because of mismanagement and bad leadership.
@spark2018 Quite a few years ago, for undergrads, Cornell and RPI were peers in engineering and science (and hockey), Students usually applied to RPI, Cornell, MIT. See Doonesbury cartoon from 2005 https://www.rpi.edu/magazine/winter2005-06/at_rensselaer/05.htmlhttp://tech.mit.edu/V126/N27/27doonesbury.html) Carnegie Mellon, Case Western and WPI were a notch behind.both colleges. Schools like Purdue, GTech were also behind RPI in reputation for undergraduate engineering education.
I would agree that people should take posts here with a grain of salt and verify some of the things said. USNWR is accurate to the extent to which it claims in making assessments of their college rankings. If you say that it is a joke, then point to the data that is faulty so that we may then wholeheartedly agree with you. Which part of the Methodology disagrees with the ranking? According to the Methodology every point is based on data from the recorded statistics so it is accurate as far as I can see. If you disagree with a ranking in a school, you then have a problem with the methodology and that is an easy problem to fix. Simply point to a different ranking system that uses a different methodology; one to your liking.
Regarding peer institutions, no, CMU has not dropped RPI as a peer. They are still listed. With regard to RPIās listing of peers, the following is their list.
Boston University
Carnegie Mellon University
Case Western Reserve University
Cornell University
Lehigh University
Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Northeastern University
Princeton University
Rice University
Stanford University
University of Pennsylvania
University of Rochester
Worcester Polytechnic Institute
Where is this peer list? I think you would be pretty deluded to believe that MIT, Princeton, Stanford or UPenn are amongst RPIās peers. Even CMU is slowly creeping into a different tier than RPI as CMU has been improving while RPI has been slowly failing.
Bit of confusion regarding the use of peer here. @reformedman is talking about the list of colleges that use RPI as a peer for internal comparison purposes. Others use peer to mean the colleges that families and students use as comparables when applying to college.
While CMU may consider RPI as a peer for its institution, today most families and students (and firms) consider CMU to be a much better college than RPI. This can be shown is that CMUās admissions rate is probably nearly half that of RPIās and CMUās endowment is nearly 3X RPIās endowment.
@reformedman Welcome back to a thread that has devolved a bit. Part my fault for calling people out. I tried to call it quits yesterday by making some concessions and moving on. Then you came along posting and making some good points. I have read / scanned your 440 posts over 2.5 years and kudos on consistency and insight. Please share your thoughts, if you dare, because rando & 79āer will pounce, as well as florida. #1 thoughts on debt, bond rating and budget; #2 gross / net tuition compared to other peer privates (esp vs. public because as many times as I post that it seems to get ignored); #3 opinion on how / why the RPI vs Purdue comments; and lastly #4 as I rolled back on some of the other critical posters, it seems they did not raise similar analysis or criticism on other schools. just RPI. Any thoughts why ? Curious, because you have been at this 10x me. Maybe it is said best by Taylor Swift in Shake if Off. Thanks.