RPI Summer ARCH program - Run away

I agree with all of these comments. My son just finished his junior year and the other part they neglect to tell you is that most of these kids suffer from Burn Out! They go to school for a year and a half with barely a break. This was extremely stressful for my son who due to scheduling conflicts in the arch summer he had to take an extra class in the fall which did not bode well. My son has always been a straight A student and struggled through the classes due to the workload. He was so stressed out and said he needed a couple of weeks away to decompress. He also told me about 80% of the kids have no internships and have received no help in finding an internship from the school. This whole program needs to be scrapped especially since the latest survey said that 90% of the students hated the program. I agree run Away


@Bosco1 Love your insightful post esp “Arch is technically one semester not a 4-year commitment so I suggest to anyone who is looking at schools and considering RPI to absolutely weigh Arch into their decision but don’t let it keep you from adding RPI.” Exactly !

Schools in this category and caliber are and should be rigorous. I don’t recall hearing any being a breeze, or having months off. If that is what students are looking for, they need not consider the top engineering and CS schools in the country as it is likely a mis-match. The reality is, chosen or required, taking classes in the summer or having a serious job are all part of these years.

“run away” 
 this is America. If RPI is so different and dissimilar I’m sure RIT, WPI, or Stevens will let you transfer in. They are all fine schools. But be warned, they are all on par.

I agree that people should not just rule out RPI because of ARCH, but saying ARCH is technically one semester is very misleading. ARCH, by design, consists of two semesters. (1) Summer here and (2) Semester AWAY. It means that the students have to study at RPI during the Summer after sophomore and go AWAY during the Fall or Spring of the junior year. There are many problems with the “Summer here” as described in various posts, they include not sufficient courses to choose from, students burning out etc. The semester away also has its problem with students not able to find co-op during the Fall or Spring, and as a result taking the “self-designed” program.

For some, it impacted other semesters as well, say as my DD’s friend found out it was easier for him to find summer internship but not for the AWAY semester, therefore her friend is now taking the “self-designed” program even the friend could have used the prior summer to get an internship. It also affects study abroad experiences, I read recently that because sophomores are required to participate in ARCH, therefore there are certain countries they could not go during Spring because of the conflict with the “Summer Here” at RPI. In addition, many students have transferred credits and can technically graduate in 3 years, therefore ARCH is impacting more than ⅓ of their educational experience.

@Spark2018 I am just trying to give a balanced post.

@annamom Acknowledged. Certainly disruption can be beyond one semester. @Bosco1 just made me laugh as it was on point, sort of like the now popular ‘OK Boomer’. I may change my opinion as we actually work though the ARCH, but I like to approach things as a potential positive and opportunity.

@Spark2018 you wrote “I may change my opinion as we actually work though the ARCH”, what did you mean by the above? what would make you change your opinion?

@annamom you ask “what would make you change your opinion?”

Any and every aspect of ARCH that in aggregate reasonably differs from my expectation from a top 30 college like RPI. This would include how the coop part plays out.

@Spark2018 As I understand RPI is not in the list of top 30 colleges. What is your expectation of ARCH ? In particular when you wrote "Any and every aspect of ARCH and also what is your opinion how the coop part should play out?

@annamom I consider RPI a top 30. US News currently ranks it as tied for 29th.

My expectations for ARCH are as I wrote. I will say things that I won’t be factoring in are things like: having to walk to another dining hall because Commons is closed; the dorm room is a freshman dorm and a rising junior should have a better room; my family vacation plans were messed up.

I will be sensitive to: are the classes my son needs to stay on track offered; are the more complex ones offered over 12 weeks i/s/o 6 (which was a clear mis-step last summer); is the course content about the same as a regular semester; is the stress level about the same as a typical RPI semester.

@Spark2018 can you share the link for US News that ranked RPI as 29th? I thought RPI was ranked 50th. You also mentioned “how the coop part should play out”, what exactly should the coop part play out?

@annamom I think you are messing with me 
 simple google search, best engineering schools undergraduate doctorate, but ok :

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/engineering-doctorate

as for the coop: just the basics, I expect my son to find a related quality opportunity in the fall or spring with a reasonable amount of effort with some guidance and support from RPI.

@Spark2018 you should have recognized that both you and @annamom are correct. RPI ranked 50th in the list of national universities and 29th in the list of engineering without doctorate.

I would like to know what you consider reasonable effort and adequate support. By requiring a term away RPI has an obligation to do more than a school that does not require the same (including co-op schools). Therefore the reasonable effort required by a student now must be less than it was before ARCH.

I also would like to know what is a quality opportunity beyond co-op (paid), on-campus research (paid), and study abroad. Can you describe a quality opportunity if the student is forced to just go home. Please see the following.

http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/rensselaer-polytechnic-institute/2156669-how-is-the-term-after-arch-going.html#latest

@StudentsR1st Of course we are both right on the ranking. Not sure it was on me to recognize as annamom was challenging me 
 but whatever. To me the engineering one is most relevant as that is my sons major and I view RPI as primarily an engineering school, along with other peers on that ranking. If I was strictly looking as CS I would have to quote a rank of 55, which I don’t really understand.

Please note, 29th is on the ‘with Doctorate’ ranking list. Right or wrong it is with some of the other big names, esp the top 10.

As far as the balance, I’m not sure I agree with your premise on a reasonable expectation. Why don’t you outline unreasonable and I will let you know if I agree.

On a quality opportunity 
 as in related to the major, classwork, application of same, in a related area, with the prospects of a full time opportunity after graduation. Again, right or wrong, I going to compare our experience to that of Northeastern’s or Steven’s who do well. Admittedly Northeastern has had decades to perfect.

With regards to the thread you previously started and the one reply 
 I had read that in real time and almost posted suggesting the person seek help. But I was not so sure the post was on the up and up.

I am not messing with you, many people knew RPI’s ranking has been dropping, just hope that it does not go lower than 50.
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Thank you for the honesty and I think you basically explained the frustration from some of the parents as you said “I may change my opinion as we actually work through the ARCH". The fact was many people formed their opinions as they worked through ARCH. You described your (IMO) reasonable expectation of ARCH included

(1) classes offered to allow students to stay on track - I can tell you if the same set of classes offered last year were offered this year, my student would have to take an extra semester. You can also see someone mentioned the same in the parent FB. On another forum (do not want to name it as the moderator may not approve) someone mentioned something that they did not have the courses they needed.
(2) Is the course content about the same as the regular semester - there were discussions in various forums that students complained not able to retain what they learned. If RPI’s courses were demanding for a regular semester, how would a majority of the students be able to absorb them in 6 or 12 weeks? Something got to give. I believe it is just common sense.
(3) you expect your son to find a coop - I have no doubt he will but I will let the number I posted on #91 speak for itself - 47% obtained coop/internship. ** Imagine you were a parent of the other 53% (or even 34% for the ILE) what would your opinion be? **

How much help did CCPD provide? My daughter’s BF has over 3.9 GPA and was not able to find a Fall internship. Are we saying that the 34% (or many of the 53%) of the students did not put in a meaningful effort? (from my 2nd hand information, when her BF asked CCPD for help in March, then in the beginning of Summer, he was told it was too early)

I knew some parents mentioned Summer Housing due to their frustration. If I have my way, I prefer my student to live in the dorm for all 4 years, but I can understand other parents’ frustration in particular when ARCH is perceived as a money grab. It is also unfortunately that RPI has not articulated a sensible reason for the kids to move from frat houses to dorms.

BTW, I hope it won’t affect my student as she has a summer internship, but it does not mean that I would not warn other prospective students to ask specific questions. Will RPI be able to match up with Northeastern? Possibly a few years later and with more people raise their concerns. But it is clear to me that RPI was not well prepared last year - look at the complaints about 6 weeks courses and the less than 50% internship (hopefully it gets better for the Spring as more people bring up their concerns).

@Spark2018 the above response was for you.

@Spark2018 RPI now requires 9 semesters of student work to graduate. 7 regular terms + ARCH Summer + ARCH Away. Schools with a required co-op program also require at least 9 terms of student work to graduate. All such schools need to provide students with the resources to succeed in these “extra semesters”. RPI differs from those universities which require co-op in that there are other options: on-campus research, study abroad, or ILE.

RPI should have ARCH counselors, staff (or faculty) positions which would help the students meet their (the student’s goals) for their 9th semester. If 50% of the students desire co-op (paid, internships are unpaid), 25% paid research participation, 15% study abroad, and 10% ILE then that should be the counselor breakdown. The counselor should be available to the student from the time they identify (and should start seeking) their desired opportunity until they complete all requirements associated with the opportunity.

The student to counselor ratio needs to be low enough that the counselor should be able to learn what each student desires and assist them through what could be their first job search (co-op/research), first proposal (study-abroad/ILE), and the required reporting at the end of the experience.

I think the ratio should be 50:1 for each cohort. It would be possible that a counselor would be working with two cohorts.

@cyberace27 Our experience has been the opposite. Our son was a solid B student in high school who just did the minimum required to get out. At RPI, he has nearly a 4.0 in engineering, is involved in intramural sports and clubs, and even took on a leadership role this semester. Last summer, after his freshman year, he was itching to get back to school–feeling that his brain was stagnating. Family and friends cannot believe the difference in his demeanor and attitude. Far from burn out, he is challenged and happy and has found his tribe. Time will tell what the arch impact will be on him. Many of his friends did the early arch program (after freshman year), and they are all getting internships and coops. RPI had an informal coop program before arch, so an “away semester” is nothing new. Just wanted to give a different perspective.

@annamom thanks, I knew the reply was to me.

On ranking RPI YOY went from 30 to the current 29. Honestly 1 point is hardly a trend or something to celebrate, and the group of colleges I follow all went up/down 1-2 point.

Regarding your other observations and experience, noted.

Like you I’m fine if the dorms were for four years. In fact not guaranteeing for all four years I had as a negative when we were evaluating the school.

On the summer offerings, as I posted somewhere here earlier, amply choices last year. It is also my understanding they have learned from their errors and the tougher classes will be 12 week sessions this summer, HAAS 6 weeks, at least for our engineering requirements. Condensed summer classes are tough everywhere, and were when I was an undergrad.

As far as coop opportunities, maybe because I have an older student too at a different school with only normal job fairs and some resume and interview coaching, or maybe because we live in a urban area, but with a little effort he had a couple of very good options, some offered outside of the summer, and all with interest for full time at the end. His friends, with different major, essentially in the same boat, unless they chose not work, or didn’t take it seriously.

@StudentsR1st I don’t know about your ‘extra semester’ concept. I don’t see it that way at all. End to end we are on track to graduate with a dual major in four years, for expected cost. AP loaded helped for sure.

ARCH counselors - sure, I have no idea what % is right. For expense reasons I would want them to develop from existing work force.

As far as what the experience should be, from postings here, discussions with other parents, and my other son’s experience, the greatest desire is a paid coop or internship, hands down and that is what RPI should be supporting. Sure, options are good for research, ILE, or abroad, but I prefer the school focus on building out robust coop opportunities. It will take years to get there.

@Polar2000 Thank you for your awesome and inspiring post of your son’s experience at RPI as well as what others he knows have experienced. Close to what we are experiencing.

@Spark2018 By a ninth semester, I meant a term in which something is required. Hence the term away would be a ninth semester. If RPI required two co-op terms to graduate I would consider it as 10 semesters.

I agree that RPI should be focusing on paid co-op opportunities. The expense for ARCH Counselors is irrelevant to me. This should have been considered before ARCH was made mandatory. To me it is not acceptable that “it will take years to get there” regarding robust co-op opportunities.

I do think paid research opportunities should also be a focus of RPI. Government funding is available for such opportunities.

I do not think internships should be a focus as these are unpaid.