Rush

Colleges and Universities A-Z Washington & Lee University
1

<p>The Greek recruitment process ought to be changed. For a school as Greek intensive as W&L, allowing anyone to fall through the cracks is unacceptable.</p>

<p>I saw more girls in tears this week than one would see at a funeral. There should be some sort of process to ensure first choices. I know of multiple girls who ended up in srats that they didn't want to be in, even though other girls wanted into that house.</p>

<p>The whole process of entrance into the houses needs to be changed. Also, there should be more houses! Five is too few. The guys have so many more. Why doesn't W&L have Phi Mu, Tri-Delt, AXO, or so many other nationally strong houses?</p>

<p>Even for guys, the system could be better. I know of a bunch who were balled from places that they thought they were going to join.</p>

<p>When I started looking at W&L, the deferred rush seemed smart, but in all actuality, the loooooong build up to the week makes things worse than a first week system. There were upperclassmen in the houses that still had no clue who I was, even though I had all fall to meet them.</p>

<p>As a naive, first semester freshman, the whole Greek scene seems so glorious, but post-rush week, I think there should be some changes to the system. One of my biggest complaints is the way people think more or less of you based on your affiliation. Also, if someone mentions a name, and you are unfamiliar with that name, the person will say, "oh, Susie is a Junior [insert house here]." That is ridiculous.</p>

<p>W&L is definitely a great place academically, but the dominance of the Greek scene, especially if things don't go your way rush week, can cause a lot of talk about transferring to other institutions.</p>

2

<p>Right. As a sophomore, I just experienced Rush from the other side, and can see why some things are the way they are.</p>

<p>First off, it's a sorority, not a charity. Often, the reason that girls are cut from a house is because the members of that chapter are not compatible with a girl. Were she admitted to the house, she would probably be miserable. Also, many houses cut girls who spend most of fall term telling people "I want to be (or worse, 'I'm going to be') a [insert srat here]." That's just hubris.</p>

<p>Also (and this is important) a lot of those girls you saw crying on Bid Night did NOT fall through. To fall through is to be CUT from EVERY house. As far as I know, this actually happened to approximately 5 girls, and almost all of them happened BEFORE Pref Night (Thursday). Those girls you saw were most likely offered a bid from a house that they declined, OR decided to only put one house on their pref card (or they put down houses that they did not attend on pref night). Okay, fine, that's their choice, but they were (or should have been) told by their Rho Gammas that to do that would greatly decrease their chance of making it into a house. I understand that it is a great shock to get cut from a house, but turning down a bid, or not listing a house, does not count as falling through.</p>

<p>Also, there were numerous snap bids issued to girls who went through rush but were not placed in a house. Again, if they turned them down, that's fine. Many, many girls in older years did not end up in the house they had originally planned on going into, that's the point of Rush week... you shouldn't go in thinking "I'm going to go X house," without considering any alternatives.</p>

<p>I would also like to point out that my house took a number of girls who we had not met before Rush week. We took them on the merits of their Rush week performance. We do not regret that. The whole point of deferred Rush is to get familiar with the Greek system if not with the individual girls.</p>

<p>I'm sorry if girls did not get into the house they wanted, but keep in mind COR and COB (Continuous Open Recruitment / Bidding) will be going on througout the semester for those with the grade requirement. And always keep an open mind. Just because it wasn't your first choice doesn't mean it's a bad choice.</p>

3

<p>^ I agree completely with the above post.</p>

<p>Especially the line "First off, it's a sorority, not a charity." Same with fraternities. Our pledges are going to be the guys living with us in the house, recruiting for the house, and representing the house for the next three years. Why should we take someone that we don't like and that we can't get along with and won't be a positive asset to the house just because we are their first choice? We are in a much better position to figure out whether someone fits at our house than a frosh is.</p>

<p>I agree with the OP in one thing only. We need more srats. But not for the reasons she mentioned. Because adding another sorority (which they have been planning forever but keep running into obstacles with) will not improve your chances of getting into the sorority of your choice. If there are 100 girls whose first choice is Sorority X now, there will be 95 girls who have that same Sorority X as their first choice with another sorority. Adding new ones will not change the perceived pecking order. </p>

<p>I put the blame for the crying freshman girls completely on their own shoulders. They hear from guys that all the best girls join sororities X and Y have the best, most beautiful girls, and think that they themselves are the best and most beautiful and thus rightfully deserve to be in X or Y. Problem is so do 150 other girls and those soroties only have 60-somewhat spaces. So the other 90 girls end up in sororities Z, A and B which they think are "beneath them" and start crying. I'm sorry but thats what you get for buying into stereotypes and thinking youre the best and automatically deserve to get into "the best" sorority.</p>

4

<p>i swore i wouldn't post again but reading this reminds me of the freshman girl (s) at Vanderbilt that hired fashion and makeup consultants in order to assist the girl to get selected. over the top! ha, ha, ha. and yes, it is true.</p>

5

<p>I think recruitment for women needs to have more Open Houses for the sororities that should be open to any PNM. My D was fortunate and knew a lot of actives who invited her on rush dates. Girls who aren't involved with a team or clubs or who are in 101 classes with only freshmen may not have the chance to go on rush dates simply because they haven't met the upperclass women. Actives can only ask the rushees on a rush date, not vice versa.</p>

<p>The fraternities have football nights during the week. I believe that the sororities should each get to have a Grey's Anatomy (or whatever you girls watch) night. Panhel could allow each house to have an open house once a month in the fall. With only 5 houses, it's not hard to pick nonconflicting nights. If Panhel is worried about dirty rushing, then station a couple of Panhel Council officers at these functions.</p>

<p>On the flip side of Rho Gamma advice, girls who attended Pref Night parties were forced to write a Pref Night card AND to list the Pref Night group as #1even if that wasn't the girl's top choice. The problem with this is that the PNM is then locked into that group (whether she joins or not) and is ineligible for COB for a calendar year. This meant that the girls who dropped out of rush have an unfair advantage over the girls who WERE open-minded enough to go through Pref Night.</p>

<p>Perhaps all the girls who are currently independent need to accept bids from whom they are offered and work to change the image of the house. All of the W&L sororities are extremely strong on the national level and have vast resources to help the chapters. </p>

<p>From what I heard, AChiO is supposed to come aboard but they are balking because there is no house for them. IMO, it would be a tough battle for them to be successful without one. Another problem with bringing a 6th group on is that not all 5 sororities are the same size. I'm not sure if ALL have surpassed ceiling or not. </p>

<p>Beautyistruth, can you PM me what quota was this year AND who got what?</p>

6

<p>During fall term, anytime a sister asks a PNM on a rush date, she also makes it an open invitation for the PNM to invite along friends, thus somewhat alleviating the problem of girls not in activities. Also, even most 100 level classes have some sophomores in them. </p>

<p>AXO is supposed to be coming, but hopefully not anytime soon.</p>

<p>If you end up at 2 houses (or 1) on Pref Night that you don't want a bid from, then drop out of rush. If you don't list a house, you will not receive a bid from them. If you don't go to a house on Pref Night, you will almost certainly not receive a bid from them. If you got cut from a house, you will absolutely not receive a bid from them. it's not that hard to understand.</p>

7

<p>The problem is that the Rho Gammas told the girls who stuck it out through Pref Night that they had to put a Pref Night choice down as number 1. A girl down the hall from my daughter went all 4 nights to one that kept asking her back. She didn't really feel the fit but she wanted to give the group a chance in hopes that something would click. For many girls, Pref Night is very emotional and can really be the determining factor. At the end of Pref Night, the PNM was forced to fill out a card, even though she decided that the group in question would not be right for her. The Rho Gamma gave her NO option of not filling out a card even though according to NPC rules a PNM has that right. Anyway, the girl of course did receive a bid to this group because she was required to pref them as number 1. It wasted a bid spot for the sorority as well. If she had been allowed to not fill out a card, she would be eligible for COB. There is no guarantee she would be snapped but at least she would have been eligible.</p>

<p>This is not the fault of the individual sororities but of the Rho Gammas who apparently don't know the NPC rules.</p>

8

<p>Well said, as usual, Dima. As the mother of a D who just went through rush, I could not agree with you more regarding stereotypes. Delayed rush is a good idea, if for no other reason than it allows the girls (both in the sororities and freshmen) to make decisions based on the girls they have met fall semester and not on stereotypes. Those that have not had a chance to meet alot of girls prior to rush week should be able to get a good sense of the personality of the sororities, if in fact they go in with an open mind and not one closed due to stereotypes.
And, although not numerous, the sororities at W&L are all extremely strong nationally.</p>

9

<p>^ I would argue that more than half of all girls who go through rush go into it with a mindset based predominantly on stereotypes. I put a lot of blame for this on W&L guys, who are the ones responsible for spreading the stereotypes far and wide. Until this mindset changes, nothing about rush will change.</p>

10

<p>I have no sympathy for girls who didn't get their first choice and turned down the srat that wanted them. </p>

<p>As it happened, my daughter called me after she wrote down her first choice and was convinced that she should have put her #2 choice first, as most of her friends were picking that one. She was very conflicted and agonized. Even calculus tests didn't provoke this kind of response.</p>

<p>She got into her #2 choice and is very happy with the girls there and feeling that these things work out for a reason. It's a good attitude for life.</p>

<p>The unfortunate thing is that a number of girls have made some catty comments to her like, "Are you happy?", implying that she shouldn't be. I dragged out the lesson about how not to be defined by other people's misguided opinions. I had to remind her that she's a very nice looking kid, which made me pretty sad. </p>

<p>Good grief Charlie Brown. I didn't see this coming.</p>

11

<p>What are the five sororities at W&L?</p>

12

<p>Kappa, KD, Pi Phi, Theta and Chi O (that's the order that the houses are in, too).</p>

<p>And yes, Rush Week and the following few weeks are very stressful. Girls get kind of catty about where they vs where they thought they should have been vs where other people are. Emotions run very high, and srat is about all that girls can think about (it doesn't help that they no longer get to see their guy friends due to pledgeship). However, by around initiation in March, especially by Spring Term, and definitely by Fall Term of sophomore year, it all dies down. Everyone accepts where they are, and are happy with it. All the houses are great in their own way. Some srats have an easier Rush process, some have more mixers, etc. I have at least one good friend in every sorority. But, because everyone just got in (or didn't) it's all people can talk about, but I promise, dobiesk8r, that if your daughter is happy at her house then that is the most important thing. I hope she enjoys the next few weeks, it's one of the greatest times for new members, while upperclassmen lavish gifts on her!</p>

13

<p>I think the point should be made that the listing that Beautyistruth made is NOT in order of "best to worst" or vice versa, but simply the physical structures from left to right as you are looking at them.</p>

14

<p>Oh dear... just reading these posts brought back the nightmare that I remember Rush was....</p>

<p>I'll share my first-hand experience:</p>

<p>Coming from NY, I didn't know much about the Greek System. Both my roommate (from NJ) and I decided at the beginning of the year that we would CONSIDER joining a sorority. As the weeks of fall term went by, we both realized that we HAD to rush. There was such a focus on recruitment that it seemed out of the question to even consider not rushing. Still, we were excited about our "Rush dates" and all of the stuff leading up to that first week in January. I remember my first rush date with two girls from my sports team, and a good friend of mine who was also a freshman. We went to Salernos (no surprise there, lol) btu I didn't even know it was a "rush date" at first, I thought these girls were just being friendly. When my friend whispered "You know their both from the same sorority, this is a RUSH DATE" I have to admit I panicked a little bit. But still, I really liked both of those girls and had a great time, after that date, their sorority became my first choice. As fall term went on, I went on several more rush dates, liking many of the girls I met, but not feeling comfortable with some too. Rush dates were mentally exhausting, I was always aware that these girls were judging me, trying to figure out whether I would "fit in" with the rest of their srat. I remember one night on my hall when about 7 of us all had rush dates with "good" srats (don't even ask me to clarify that). One girl on my hall didn't have a rush date, and was very upset, we had all heard the rumor that she had been "balled" from several srats, and she took that night as confirmation of this. The rest of us went on our dates that night feeling pity for her, but still happy that for now at least, our futures were safe. Ha. Over time, I changed my mind about my "first choice". I got to know other girls from that srat and just didn't get along with them well. Before Rush Week, I believed there were two houses I would be very comfortable in. </p>

<p>Rush Week.</p>

<p>The first night was SO exciting. We got as dressed up as we could manage in "casual" clothing. Of course this meant sporting as many expensive name brands as we could manage, and topping in all off with some pearls. My hall was all on the same schedule for the night: We would go to Kappa first, then KD, then Theta, followed by Chi-O, and lastly Pi-Phi. Immediately after reading our schedule, several girls agreed that it was funny how our shcedules were "in order". That is to say, Kappa was clearly the most desirable, and Pi-Phi was the worst. As ridiculous as the statement seems today to me, we had all been conditioned to think that way by the past few months of recruitment. </p>

<p>We lined up outside of Kappa, and we ushered into the house by crazy clapping girls. It was insane, but also tons of fun. That moment was probably 10 times as exciting as getting my acceptance letter to W&L. The first night was sooo much fun, I got to know a ton of great girls. I was surprised at how much fun I had at one house, a place I had never even considered before. I loved all of the girls I met there and thought I really connected with a few of them. I went to bed that night feeling very optimistic about the whole situation. </p>

<p>By 4pm the next day, every freshman girl in sight was visibly nervous. My hall's rho-gammas told us not to expect them until 5, so for then I was waiting with one of my best friends in her room, to get her nights schedule from her rho gammas. When a knock came at the door, she gave me a quick excited smile and jumped up to open it. Her somber-faced rho gamma asked if she could come in and sit down for a moment. My friend, let's call her Jess, looked a little worried but didn't know the protocol, so she wasn't panicking just yet. The rho gamma sat down and quietly explained that Jess hadn't been invited back to any houses that night. There would be no more rush for her. Jess's shocked face looked as if someone just told her that her whole family had been killed. As the rho gamma left, I watched tears slowly slide down her face. She was still too stunned to speak. Jess was pretty, popular, outgoing, friendy, and generally a great girl. I couldn't believe this had happened to her. I tried my best to comfort her, but nothing I could have said was good enough. I had to get back to my room to await my schedule.</p>

<p>I jumped when I heard the knock at my door. My rho gamma flashed me a quick smile and handed me my schedule. The second night, I was invited back to only two houses, one of which I really liked, but the other one, the one that had been my first choice a few weeks ago, I didn't feel so comfortable with now. I was upset that I wouldn't have another chance to get to know the girls at the houses that had cut me. The house that I had been suprised to like so much has cut me too, and I had no idea why. I knew several girls from there from my sports team, and I was insulted that they didn't want me as a "sister".</p>

<p>I continued to go to these two houses for the next few nights. Every night I saw more pain and tears than I thought was possible at such a pleasent, priveleged school. Girls were absolutely heartbroken. When I finally got cut from the sorority I wanted to be in, and only invited back to the house I didn't really want to be a part of, I withdrew from Rush.</p>

<p>I was devastated that night, and called my mom sobbing. I felt as if a piece of me had been taken away. For months we had been told that being a part of a sorority was a wonderful thing, we were told to look forward to big sister week, formals, initiation, etc, etc, etc. It became the most important part of W&L. Then all of a sudden, I relaized I would be having no part in it. Only then did I fully understand what my friend Jess had gone through only a few nights before, and what all those other girls had been crying about.</p>

<p>It just wasn't fair. Sure, I could have probably pledged to that other house, but I truly didn't think I'd be happy there, and I didn't want to give up my chance to try rushing again next year. Another good friend of mine, we'll call her Katie, wound up at the sorority she really wanted to be in, but she was still disturbed at the Rush Week experience, and it severely altered her opinions of the greek system, and even of her new sorority. She ended up deciding not to initiate. </p>

<p>As me and my friend Jess adjusted to the idea of not being part of a sorority, we watched all of the ither girls around us have the time of their lives. Though we both drove 500miles home that first weekend (we couldn't bear to be around for Tear Night, when we couldn't take part in it), we had to deal with watching every other girl in our halls wakin up to piles of gifts outside of their decorated rooms every morning of big sis week, and it was horrible. I can't tell you how many times both of us cried those first few weeks. I felt liek I was putting on a mask, pretending like everything was ok when I was still heartbroken.</p>

<p>People told us that being an independent wasn't that bad, that it was definitely worst for guys than girls, that we'd still have great social lives, etc. But at least as freshmen, it didn't get better. Most of my friends spent more and more time with their new sisters and had less and less time for me. I couldn't decide if it was worse having to tell people I was independent when they asked me where I had pledged, or when girls pointedly avoided the sorority subject because they knew I had hadn't pledged anywhere. </p>

<p>My friend Jess and I got used to heading out to parties well after 10pm, when the mixers would "open up". But more than once, we recieved uncomfortable stares asking "who are these girls?" even when we met up with friends who attended the mixers. </p>

<p>It never got easier.
One time, a friend from my hall asked me if I was considering rusing again as a sophomore. No one had asked me that yet, and I genuinely appreciated her candidness. "I don't know" I said, "I don't think I could handle doing that again." She sighed, "Yeah, I don't know how anyone could, knowing what it would be like" she said.</p>

<p>Well, I transferred out of W&L after freshman year. So did my friend Jess, and my friend Katie. Though W&L has a pretty good "retention rate", I'd be curious to see the percentage of independent students who left W&L. I'm guessing it's pretty high.</p>

<p>Maybe being an independent would have gotten easier over time, I've been told by many that it does. But my problem was, why should I have to suffer at all? Why did most girls get dozens of new friends handed to the on a silver platter when I had to work to meet new people. And even when I did make new friends, their schedules were full of sorority-exclusive events. </p>

<p>Just last weekend, I noticed that a girl I loosly knew (she had stayed overnight with my roommate and I when she went to visit W&L last year) was online. I knew that she had applied ED to W&L and had gotten in, and was really enjoying her freshman year at W&L. I saw dozens of pictures of her and her friends on facebook, having crazy good times at all of the best parties. Well, last Saturday morning, her AIM away message said she was home. At that moment, my heart broke all over again. I know somethine had gone wrong with her rush week experience and she wouldn't be enjoying sorority life with the overwhelming majority of her classmates.</p>

<p>It's just not fair that so many wonderful girls don't get to, for one reason or another, enjoy the same experiences as the others.</p>

<p>I have many more opinions on this subject, but my hands are tired. Sorry if my grammer was incorrect, or anything was hard t0 understand, I typed this up as quickly as I could becuase I hope if there are any freshman girls going through the same things that my friends and I did, and I'm sure there are several, you can read this and at the very least realize that you aren't alone.</p>

<p>I am a million times happier at my new school, where there is no Greek system and I make friends with girls based on their personalities, and not their Greek affiliation.</p>

15

<p>Okay. I really feel like I need to reply to this. First off, I definitely agree that Rush week is incredibly stressful and could probably be run better, but as to all the unhappiness that results from Rush week drama, I don't feel like that blame should be put on the sororities themselves. Rather, I feel like a lot of this is Panhel's fault. Panhel spreads the rumor that there is a place for EVERYONE in a sorority, which is frankly not true. Many, many times this year, a girl has been mentioned who would just not fit into our sorority, and would probably be happier to be independent. Don't forget that sororities have quota and budget issues, and part of our job is to make sure no one drops out of our sorority after they pledge. Thus, we have to look at some girls and decide whether or not they would stick it through.</p>

<p>In our defense, I have never heard of anyone in my sorority (I can't speak for any of the others) who have ever advocated cutting a girl because of her financial situation, her father's job, her lack of designer jeans or who she is dating. We have cut girls because they have been blatantly rude to us (ESPECIALLY during Rush Week -- girls, I don't care how much you don't want to be at a certain house, just smile! We do talk to our friends at other houses) or who have alcohol problems (it's a big and complicated issue) or who might be a grade risk. I can't say for sure, HereWeGo, why you were cut, or why your friends were, but those are some issues that srats look at.</p>

<p>Also, being an independent does get easier. I live with 2 independents and they are happy. They went out on Tear Night (it is NOT for sorority/fraternity people only. I saw a lot of independents out, and having more fun than some of the srat girls, too), go to our mixers after they open up (and have NEVER been stared at, or questioned) and laughed at me when I was sleepless and busy during Rush Week.</p>

<p>I freely admit that the system is not perfect, but I feel it would be a lot better if PanHel didn't URGE everyone to rush, and spread the myth that everyone has a place in the system.</p>

<p>I would never have rushed at another school. I joined the sorority where I felt the most comfortable, where I knew the most girls and got along with them. It hurt a little when I got cut from some of the other srats, but I knew I wouldn't have liked it there.</p>

<p>Rush is stressful, and the weeks after it are certainly hard for independents as all their friends get consumed by srat, but it's not the end of the world.</p>

<p>(also, for the record, I know at least half the people who transferred at the end of last year were not independents, nor were they from the same srat or frat.)</p>

16

<p>I find this thread fascinating. I had very strongly urged my son to consider applying to W&L's class of 2011. Its a great school in a beautiful part of the country. We're from California and I had been a KA at Stanford. Our Alpha house is at W&L. I had visited when I was in college and loved the place and could see my son there. We visited the campus twice and he interviewed. We loved the the admissions officer, the community, the facilities, the sports and the academics. But, the one thing he didn't feel comfortable with was this omnipresent Greek system and the overbearing feeling that if you didn't fit into Greek life, W&L would be a very difficult place to really enjoy. There were no srats (I had never heard that expression before) at Stanford and the Greek system was uniquely Stanford-esque, so I couldn't guarantee him what it would be like at W&L. As a KA legacy I told he could join KA at W&L, but still couldn't guarantee him what that would be like. I had no idea of the personality of the KA house. After much consideration, he ultimately chose not to apply even though he felt pretty confident that he'd get in. He simply wasn't willing to take the risk going to a place where it was obvious you either went Greek or you would struggle socially your whole time there. He's a kid who likes to have fun and parties his share, but he's not your typical khakis-Polo button down-Topsidders prep schooler. So he didn't want to be left out in the cold if the Greek thing didn't work for him. From what I can gather with this discussion, he was right on in his impressions. I guess the advice I'd offer to anyone considering where to apply to college is to get really good understanding of the social structure where you're applying and understand the social dynamics. If the choices are limited, and you're not sure you'll be comfortable with those limited choices, focus on somewhere else.</p>

17

<p>Herewego, thanks for sharing your story. You're at my husband's alma mater, I believe. He had a great time there; it's definitely much more laid back than W&L. </p>

<p>Beautyistruth, my daughter has adjusted well. She got invites back to three srats, so she didn't feel like a reject, and she wound up the one that I feel is probably the best for her since it was the one she mentioned most often. One of her Greensboro leaders is a sister there, so I think that's what made her comfortable.</p>

<p>Having gone through my own experiences with judging (see my username) all I have to say is that what doesn't kill you makes you stronger.</p>

18

<p>I think most families who investigate W&L know full well about the Greek Life percentage. For some, it's an attraction, for others a detriment. My school was significantly less Greek and also significantly more skewed (3-1 M/F). For the men at my alma mater, Greek Life was almost more important as compared to W&L if one wanted a social life. One thing W&L fraternities do that many other IFCs don't is to have all parties open to the entire student body, At my school, women were always welcome at fraternity parties, but the guys had to be brothers or on a guest list. So why did I join a women's fraternity (the correct term for 4 of the 5 Panhel orgs at W&L) when I didn't have to? I wanted the sisterhood, the cameraderie, and an alumnae network for my post-college years. </p>

<p>One recurring complaint is that girls were asked back to groups they didn't like. To be a successful PNM, one must keep an open mind about all 5 groups. If you don't get a max number of invitations and don't have to cut a group, go to all the options (even the ones you don't think may be your fit). You may be surprised that it ends up being a great choice.</p>

<p>The girls who quit rush completely or who never participated are the ones eligible for COB. Apparently there will be COB events over the next couple of weeks. Take advantage of the events. Informal rush is a great way to really get to know the sisters and the New Members.</p>

19

<p>"we had to deal with watching every other girl in our halls wakin up to piles of gifts outside of their decorated rooms every morning of big sis week, and it was horrible."</p>

<p>My God. And I thought it hurt to get cut by a singing group on the basis of my vocal abilities! I can't even imagine what that must be like. It's a shame that there isn't a way for girls to get involved later that semester. I'm glad to hear that you are so happy at your new school.</p>

<p>May I ask what gave you the strong feeling that you could not be happy in the sorority you didn't go back to?</p>

20

<p>Wow. I have to say that if some of these posts were the only knowledge that I had of W & L, I would have a totally different feeling towards the school. However, as the parent of an independant sophomore d, I KNOW that being an Independant is not the end of the world. My d, and her immediate group of friends all decided not to rush last year. Let me be the first to say that they are ALL immensely happy at W & L. She is in a suite with 3 other independant women and none of them feel like they are missing out on anything. She also has friends who are in Sororities and Fraternities. If Greek life is not for you, that's fine. But that doesn't mean that W & L is not for you.</p>