<p>I have noticed two common opinions here regarding calculus:</p>
<p>A. Taking calculus in high school is "necessary" for admission to a selective college; being on-level and completing precalculus as a high school senior won't cut it, so students who were not advanced in middle school math should take summer courses to become advanced in math in order to reach calculus in high school.</p>
<p>B. College frosh should always repeat their AP calculus credit in college, even if they got a 5 and the college lets them take a more advanced course to start out.</p>
<p>The combination of these two opinions does not seem to make much sense. Why is calculus so special that students need to take it twice (once in high school and then once in college) unconditionally?</p>
<p>Very few colleges expect high school calculus from entering frosh, so being on-level in math and completing precalculus (so that one is ready to take calculus as an entering frosh) should be fine if the math placement decision made in middle school did not advance the student then.</p>
<p>Meanwhile, does it make sense for students who scored a 5 on the AP calculus test, where the college allows advanced placement in the math sequence, to always start over in calculus? Of course, the student can review the college's old final exams if s/he is not sure, but a blanket "always repeat your AP calculus credit" recommendation does not make sense, since many of the students are top students in math and fully ready to move on to more advanced math courses (and they will eventually get to enjoy a free elective in place of the skipped math course).</p>
<p>UCB, I have not observed either piece of advice given with great regularity… at least not by long term posters.</p>
<p>Students who are applying to engineering programs, who have not taken calculus when it is offered at their HS will definitely be at a disadvantage in admissions- it is an eyebrow raiser at a minimum. Students who want to present the strongest academic profile possible who are in HS’s where the top kids take calculus, will need to have a good reason not to take it. But otherwise?</p>
<p>And I can’t imagine a strong math kid repeating a class in math if they’ve already covered the material. He or she would be bored to tears. </p>
<p>IMO, #2 is a much, much smaller subset of #1.</p>
<p>Many, many students who clear the ‘selective’ college hurdle (#1) never take Calc in college. Lit/hume majors go off and do their thing.</p>
<p>The group of #2 is therefore populated by the likes of premeds, math majors, hard social science (i.e., econ)/business majors, and engineers (if the college even offers it).</p>
<p>Math geeks/majors can and do skip Calc 1, as do Engineers. But the premeds, which comprise a huge chunk of any matriculating Frosh class, need a couple of semesters of math, so why not repeat Calc 1A (and Stats, for that matter) for the “easy A”. It frees up study time for the sciences, or a course overload, and/or attend a football game. And with the exception of the econometrics/finance guys, many social science majors don’t need much more than Calc 1. If so, why take Linear Alg or Calc 3-4?</p>
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<p>Quite possible, but why not take a perceived “easier” course, particularly when GPA is paramount?</p>
<p>btw: repeating AP-5’s also occurs in the sciences, such as Chem and Physics. My son’s best friend was an Engineering major at UCLA, and although he received 5 in AP Chem, his UCLA advisor suggested he just take the typical Frosh Chem course to fee up time for his other Engineering courses. He wasn’t bored to tears, Blossom, he just never went to class and earned the easy A. But he was also taking 19 units (quarter) that term.</p>
<p>“Rushing to calculus” is foolhardy, because the best predictors of college success are an understanding of basic functions and graphs, not the highest level of mathematics reached. It matters what is missed while “rushing”, and the feverish pace to keep up with the accelerated math students (using summer and online math courses) can easily result in a student starting calculus before high school. Not the best idea.</p>
<p>However, an understanding of calculus combined with a strong pre-calculus background is a major advantage in STEM college coursework, especially engineering, physics, chemistry and math. Most of one’s peers in these majors in college have backgrounds in calculus before freshman year in college, and it’s difficult to play catch up fall freshman year (possible, especially if grades are covered, but not enjoyable). MIT and Caltech require calculus for admission, for example.</p>
<p>However, due to variability of rigor in high school calculus classes, many colleges advise taking placement tests or repeating calculus at their college. This helps to get everyone on the same page, and is a reasonable response to mathematically diverse students (even among the AP5s). Some will find the work repetitive, some will find it most difficult. </p>
<p>My suggestion to the mathematically talented is to enrich, try competitions early, work on problem solving, and gradually accelerate with an eye for where you want to be in math, at the end of high school.</p>
<p>I haven’t been here long- but I’ve noticed A much more than B. </p>
<p>Getting into calculus in high school seems to be a common misconception amongst both parents and students. </p>
<p>B doesn’t make a lot of sense as a path, unless put into the context of - take the appropriate level of math. Heck, that applies to A even!</p>
<p>Anecdotally, 5 of the 20 kids from DS16’s advanced calc class last year are taking math this year at the local LAC. Ten of the kids were seniors last year so they’ve gone off to college. The other five are taking either no math or Stats. </p>
<p>Four of the remaining five are either junior or seniors in HS (except DS16). Out of this subset, three decided to take Calc 2, one is taking Calc 1 and one is taking Calc 3. Don’t know what they got on their AP test (other than the one taking Calc 3…he got a 5). But they all decided what they were ready for after taking the same class last year. And it isn’t the same.</p>
<p>I don’t know about A, but B seems quite useless to me. Any good CAS can spit out the solution to most problems encountered in a typical calculus course as soon as you type the problem in. Understanding the conceptual meaning of what you’re doing and how calculus applies to problems in other fields is IMO more important but I do not think this is reinforced in a typical college calculus course (in my experience, students mostly learn tricks to evaluate derivatives and integrals of various functions, which again, can be done with a CAS).</p>
<p>You don’t have to excel in math as an 8th grader to take calc in high school. My D took AlgI in 9th grade, AlgII and Geometry in 10th grade, precalc in 11th grade and Calc in 12th grade. She felt like 8th grade algebra did not prepare her for honors AlgII. Worked out well for us.</p>
<p>People always respond to incentives. There are many good reasons to repeat Calc I or II in college if you took it in high school and don’t care about getting AP credit, especially if you are a pre-med or similar. The colleges don’t seem to care. Better to get an A- retaking Calc I than a B- in a new course, especially if you’re not going to go on to a field where you need a lot of math.</p>
<p>All of my D’s peers and their parents believe that one needs high school calculus (at least AP Calc AB) to get into a high-ranking school even if you are a lit/hum type. Whether it’s true or not, I do not know.</p>
<p>I get more and more business these days (I’m a math tutor) with students taking calculus who are not prepared (not mathematically ready) for calculus. Often, these are AP calculus AB students or non-AP calculus students. The calculus AB stats are very suggestive: roughly twice as many take the test as in 2000, and the failure rate has increased from about 15% to about 30%. I don’t agree with A, but I conclude that it must be an opinion shared by many.</p>
<p>There is no reason to repeat Calculus in college unless you are going to major in Math or a hard science. The reality is, one can never get enough Calculus. ;)</p>
<p>My son got a 5 on the AP Calc A/B test and then went on to take Calc 3 in college follwed by Linear Algebra, Differential Equations and then some very advanced math courses as a Math major. He has a double major in math and econ. Most of the kids in his Calc 3 class had gotten and 4 or 5 on the Calc B/C exam but he did not feel one bit disadvantaged. </p>
<p>My other son who went the regular math track in high school took a non AP PreCalc/Calc course his senior year. The teacher who has taught this very course for many years recommends that kids retake Calculus in college and also told us that “his” kids do very well in it, though most of these kids are not STEM majors or into the mathematics. My son took a placement test for what math he should take and was placed in a condensed year Calc course (Calc 1 and 2 combined) that was one semester. That takes care of his math requirement for college, though he also took a stats course the following term. But he is not a math major. As his teacher predicted, and the placement test directed, he got a solid B in the course without it being a stress subject for him. </p>
<p>So it depends. Most colleges and math/math sci/physic/computer sci/engineering departments have screening and placement tests for those who are unsure what to take.</p>
<p>It depends on the rigor of your HS. For many students there is no good alternative to the fast track. Unfortunately, HS’s have given up “rigor” in order for kids to make it to calculus before college. The colleges are “rewarding” this course path instead of a solid background. It is ridiculous (IMO) for a student to repeat calculus. It’s just an indication that it was not taught to the correct depth in the first place. Colleges are to blame for requiring a “course name” over depth of understanding.</p>
<p>"“Rushing to calculus” is foolhardy, because the best predictors of college success are an understanding of basic functions and graphs, not the highest level of mathematics reached. It matters what is missed while “rushing”, and the feverish pace to keep up with the accelerated math students (using summer and online math courses) can easily result in a student starting calculus before high school. Not the best idea."</p>
<p>Not the best idea <em>for most students</em>. But your generalization ignores the fact that math programs which are appropriate for the majority of honor students are agonizingly slow for some students who are exceptionally talented and motivated. These kids are often bored to tears in their middle school classes, and for them, a challenge is exactly what they need. If they’re not lucky enough to go to a really great middle school, the only way they can do anything challenging in school may be through highly accelerated math.</p>
<p>AT the public engineering school in our state, many kids that passed Ap CalC AB had to retake calculus 1 for engineers. They wanted to get everyone on the same page. It is not uncommon at Purdue to see this happening. It can be a blow to the ego, but the students generally come out of the class feeling as if they learned something.</p>
<p>Hypothetically, if a student took BC calc in high school, he may want to repeat Calc II in college, simply because starting off with multi-variable might be a bit much. Also, if your school requires a math course, not just AP credit, it might make sense to re-take calculus for the easy A.</p>
<p>The larger issue, I think, is that calculus is a course that can take a long time to really settle into the brain. Students may get much more out of it the second time around in ways that they would not with other classes.</p>
<p>I can only comment for the students that think they might be interested in Engineering. </p>
<p>Taking Calc in HS can help students determine if they would like college engineering courses. If no, then they can adjust their college search path while still in hs. </p>
<p>Retaking Calc in college for engineering is common it is usually taught with more rigor at college… Many subsequent engineering courses will rely on Calc skills, so it’s important to have a strong base.</p>
<p>Looks like she doubled up on math, which is not normal in high school, in order to compensate for not being placed in the advanced math track in middle school.</p>
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<p>In other words, a placement decision made in middle school should close off a large number of potential college and major options that the student has in the future?</p>
<p>The eyebrow raiser may be a student who was placed in advanced math, but stops taking math early despite expressed interest in a major that needs more math. But if a student was merely placed in on-level math courses in middle school, should that be a disqualifier to admission to a selective college?</p>
<p>Probably because their AP score was too low (Purdue only gives advanced placement for scores of 4 or higher on AP calculus; a “passing” score of 3 does not give advanced placement at Purdue).</p>
<p>However, the students who got a 5 and thought it was easy… would you suggest that they repeat calculus 1 unconditionally? (as opposed to reviewing Purdue’s old calculus 1 final exams before deciding)</p>