<p>I still have the text from my D last semester that says “I quit rush.” Apparently I asked why, or something, and she responded “No, I’m just not a sheep.”</p>
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<p>Some view it as being part of the herd and some view it as just following the sheep. Interesting different viewpoints. Depending on the side you take, the amount of “abusive ritual” you are willing to take will vary.</p>
<p>merlin, Greeks actually do go out to places in need and help the people out. I remember reading a few articles on this actually too. This is what frustrates me, people just see the negatives of the Greek community instead of the positives. The positives that Greeks bring are respectable also.</p>
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<p>And WHY do you think that is? </p>
<p>People bend backwards to recognize and applaud good deeds. Older generation look in awe at the desire and willingness of the young to serve others and act selfishly. On the other hand, trying to minimize the overwhelming negatives with some BS good actions does not fool anyone. Greeks do not fool anyone about their purpose and raison d’etre.</p>
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<p>Wow. You think that the only reason Greeks volunteer and raise money is so people will look kindly upon them and overlook the “negatives”? That people in Greek organizations care little/not at all about the charities they help and the money they raise?</p>
<p>So now all greek organizations at all schools are bad? Can we make a bigger generalization???</p>
<p>Look, there are frats and sororities that obviously cross the line…at some/all schools…these are not necessarily the same chapters across schools…each one at each school has a different character</p>
<p>But to say that ALL of anything is one way or the other is kinda shortsighted, as Jim has pointed out…</p>
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<p>Exactly. I realize that there are people on here who have personal issues with Greek houses, but overgeneralizations are wrong even if you have a good reason to hate a particular house, or even all the houses on a particular campus.</p>
<p>I am not Greek, by the way. I actively didn’t want to be (there was a sorority that tried to recruit me and I turned them down). I just don’t like seeing people apply some sort of bizarre nationwide guilt by association.</p>
<p>The incident described here was barbaric. Though the commenter who made the Don Imus crack was out of line, IMO.</p>
<p>Please ignore the author of post #17. </p>
<p>He has been ■■■■■■■■ CC with the same nonsense for at least several months now. He keeps getting banned but returns under new usernames. That this is his 2nd post (using this screenname) should be a fair indication of his ■■■■■■■■ intents and purposes.</p>
<p>Not surprisingly, his post has nothing to do with the situation at Rutgers or hazing in general. Do not “reward” his ■■■■■■■■ behavior by clicking on his link.</p>
<p>Thank you.</p>
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I really should not have read this sentence while recovering from stomach flu…</p>
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<p>Who spoke about all of nothing? That is very different from ZERO tolerance when cases of hazing and other negative behavior occur. For the record, discussions about frats have raged on CC for years, and the outcome is always similar. It is obvious that there are greek organizations that are focused on doing good; plenty of others are not. When the rotten apples are caught in yet another exhibition of egregious behavior, observers are asked to weigh a certain balance of good versus evil. Does the fact that an organization has members rasing money for a soup kicthen somehow excuse a behavior that is reprehensible on all levels? </p>
<p>My point is that such organizations have the ability of making clear decisions. Engaging in criminal behavior should never be accepted, excused, understood, and mostly not permitted on or near our campuses. Until extremely tough and permament measures are applied, we can count that accidents and deaths caused by the incredible stupidity of brothers and by the LACK of supervision by the national chapters and by the schools will continue.</p>
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<p>No it doesn’t, and I don’t believe anyone here is trying to make that argument. However, your post #23 insinuated that any beneficial action a Greek organization takes is BS and done only to take the focus away from bad things. You don’t actually believe that, do you?</p>
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<p>Engaging in criminal behavior is not tolerated anywhere. However, action can only be taken when people are caught. The issue is that a lot of cases aren’t brought to attention. Also, you single out fraternities (use of frat and brothers) when the thread is regarding a sorority hazing.</p>
<p>Weird. Usually sorority hazing involves buying gifts for each other. Guess the Rutgers chapter didn’t get the memo.</p>
<p>While I don’t condone hazing, I also don’t understand the mentality that considers these pledges victims. They were voluntary co-conspirators. They are adults, and no one was holding a gun to their heads to come back for more.</p>
<p>If this same scenario had occurred at a private country club among a bunch of old geezers and some new members, would people be just as outraged? Why not?</p>
<p>Bay, I think you’re being a little naive about the social and psychological pressures involved here. To say that “no one was holding a gun to their heads” and calling their participation “voluntary” are two quite different statements; the first is true, the second really is not.</p>
<p>I am not naive about Greek pressures, nightchef, I was in a sorority in college. We had a couple of girls de-pledge because one night they were asked to braid their hair and serve dinner to the Seniors. In my experience, it was all voluntary and everyone knew it.</p>
<p>So you think that these girls didn’t feel any sense of compulsion or social pressure–didn’t feel that if they bowed out they would be shamed, mocked, or scorned as weaklings. They were eager to be beaten so badly they required hospital attention, because they just wanted to be in the sorority that much. Really?!?</p>
<p>I have no idea what they were thinking; for all I know they might have thought they would be murdered if they didn’t allow themselves to be beaten. The question is whether those feelings were reasonable under the circumstances. This is Rutgers, so the students must be fairly academically accomplished and smart. This is 2010, where Greek life has been maligned for decades about hazing. From my own D’s current sorority experience, anti-hazing is drilled into their heads. It is not news, it is the law now. No one, including the law, can protect people from offering themselves up for abuse if they decide to do so based on the unreasonable belief that they do not have the choice to say “no.”</p>
<p>I just want to note that based an what I read here, National Pan Hellenic organizations might share a different experience than “mainstream” Greeks. For example, the alcohol stuff seems really unusual to me, while the branding stuff (for guys, and from what I can tell AFTER the fact and totally voluntary) not so much. I’m sure if you know what to look for, you can find examples in the media. To me it seems we are more likely to be increasingly active AFTER college. And for the record, part of that activity involves work toward eliminating anything that remotely resembles “hazing”.</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.nphchq.org/affiliates.htm[/url]”>http://www.nphchq.org/affiliates.htm</a></p>
<p>I think it’s odd that there were only 6 active members. Makes me doubt that they ever went thru this themselves. After all, what did the original group do, beat themselves? Beat each other?</p>
<p>I still cannot understand why the hell this Greek life is allowed, all it is is an excuse to let people party and get *****ed… they do “civic work” in daytime and try to be the biggest slut come nightfall</p>
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<p>Fraternities and sororities are where the leaders of our country come from (businesspeople, politicians, etc). They aren’t bad at all. In most places, the average Greek GPA is higher than the average non-Greek GPA, so they must be doing something right.</p>