<p>I'm trying to decide which side I would like to work on. My understanding is that guys going into CorpFinance straight out of college intend on working their asses off for 2-4 years as an analyst with the intent of going for an MBA at a top school. After the MBA the goal is to get a job in private equity or working for a hedge fund. I sort of understand the banker's role in private equity, but I don't really understand what a banker does for the hedge fund. Also, what are the hours like at this stage in the career?</p>
<p>On the other hand, I've heard that S&T guys don't really have any need for an MBA, and are more likely to stay at the bank for awhile. Yet, I would think that some traders eventually make their way into hedge funds as well. What are the benefits of moving from a trading desk at a bank to a hedge fund, anything besides possibly better compensation? Also, how do the work environments differ? </p>
<p>My main worry about working in CorpFinance is that I'm not sure how challenged I will be. I would think that the job would become more challenging with time, as responsibilities change from doing to grunt work to heading up deals. Yet, I have certain moral concerns about heading up deals as well. I mean, while I'm in my 20's and early 30's I imagine it will still be fun to ******** and lie and practice my acting skills heading up deals(I don't mean to insult current bankers with this comment, but its the reputation bankers have). Yet, I don't want to look back on my life when im in my 40's and 50's and wonder if I've done anything good for the world.</p>
<p>As for my worries about trading, I'm a firm believer that markets are random. I don't know that I really trust the idea of trading on instinct and fundamental analysis. I would feel much more comfortable taking a highly quantitative approach to trading with emphasis on technical analysis. Yet, this would require a Phd. I'm also wondering what career options are left for unsuccessful traders. Are you completely screwed and dropped from the bank entirely, or can you make your way into CorpFinance as a back up?</p>
<p>Anyone who can comment on my questions, I'd appreciate thoughts. Thanks.</p>
<p>First, there are few people cut out for both S & T and Corp fin/M & A. Typically they know young who they are. Since you like stereotypes, I'll play along....S & T guys are MIT/Chicago quant jocks whereas Corp fin guys are Harvard/Dartmouth/Princeton frat presidents/football captains.</p>
<p>Corp fin types have mostly stopped getting MBA's if they have an offer to move up to associate. </p>
<p>While S & T may be shorter work hours, it is very taxing and stressful. Personally, give me M & A.</p>
<p>Hedge funds are now the golden jobs. Greenwich is the new NY. Most do their time at a BB first, but if you're truly exceptional some are hired right out of college.</p>
<p>As for the running deals at 20 and lying, you've watch too many movies. There are some guys who do walk in the door in their early 20's ready to run. One young Dartmouth guy I hired two years ago had done phenomenal research while in college that taught us an important tax strategy in structuring deals. No client cared that he was 22, believe me. Yet we don't put any jokers out front, really.</p>
<p>I'm not sure what stage you're at but don't worry about what will challenge you just yet, get into a top college, graduate in the top 10%, get great prof and internship references, do some research or something else to make yourself stand out.....and you'll find a challenging job that suits you at an ibank.</p>
<p>Just want to clarify certain points hmom5 made.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Corp fin types have mostly stopped getting MBA's if they have an offer to move up to associate.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>This is true to a certain extent. If you want to be a "career banker" and stay in sell-side banking, an MBA is not mandatory for career progression. However, if you're planning to make the switch to another career in finance, an MBA is almost a requirement. If you want to make it to the top of the food chain of a private equity house, for example, you'll need to get an MBA at a top school at some point.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Hedge funds are now the golden jobs.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>No. </p>
<p>People seem to have the misconception that the private equity industry is reeling the most because of the credit crunch and the current turbulence in the markets. Well, ANY financial community that depends highly on leverage is going to feel the sting of illiquidity (yes, including hedge funds). There might be more upside in the hedge fund business because of the complex financial instruments that they devise, but there's also certainly more risk involved as well. If you look at the current crisis, for example, it is in part due to the heavy usage of complex derivatives such as CDOs as capital that has lead to the downward spiral of the economy. Yes, there are a few firms who have made a profit shorting subprime mortgages, but many funds have shut down shop as a result of the on-going turmoil. Hedge funds are certainly NOT "golden jobs," by any means.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Greenwich is the new NY.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>This is delusional on so many levels.</p>
<hr>
<p>S&T and Corporate Finance are fundamentally different things. A good rule of thumb: if you like following quick movements in the financial markets (volatility of betas, changes in the forex markets, etc.) and enjoy many different products, you'll generally like S&T. If you are more process-oriented, take a long-term approach to situations, and like adopting an investor's perspective, you're generally more suited for corporate finance.</p>
<p>Get real dude, you're a college student who doesn't have a clue what top WS guys are doing right now. You've certainly mastered the top ivy arrogance we see so much of and try to avoid at all costs.</p>
<p>hmom, thank you for the comment...though, i don't recall ever watching a movie about an investment banker. In fact, my uncle works for an insurance company and does acquisitions. His claim is that "investment bankers are lying sacks of ****". I'm sure I'll find out whether this is a valid statement at some point, but many of the books I've read often hint at the truth in the claim. You commented that S&T is mostly quantjocks, yet a friend of mine who interned at Goldman over the summer(who attends neither a "superior" ivy, nor a lower "ivy", or even a top 20 school...just good old UMD College Park) said that this was not the case(although I do admit that I thought such was true up to that point). Yet, he was in the equities division and indicated that in fixed income such could be the case. He also spoke to the contrary about failed traders working in CorpFinance. He was under the impression that if you were percieved to be valuable to Goldman, that you would be worked around into a position that suited you. </p>
<p>Any comments on the I-banker's role at a hedge fund? I mean, what is the need for a banker at a fund that is mostly engaged in a combination of long and short positions in liquid assets. I could understand the necessity, if say, the fund were intending on taking over or merely buying a stake in a private company. Yet, how common is this? My Uncle says he's had far less competition with hedge fund guys as of the past few years because many of them are still sitting on investments in other companies that are yet to pay off.</p>
<p>Dude, over the next few months you will see many of the very best MD's relocating from what were formerly known as BB ibanks. They have looked around and decided where the best opportunities are and they're not in Manhattan. There's major change in the wind where senior people who are in demand are concerned.</p>
<p>Illusion, a lot of people have a lot of bad things to say about ibankers. Go get a job with one and make the judgements for yourself.</p>
<p>hmom5, for an adult, your inability to reason and use basic logic is a horrifically sad commentary on your generation's educational woes (you get one ad hominen attack and I get one, fair?). I never disagreed with you that bankers are looking to jump ship. However, your claim that Greenwich will overtake New York as the financial capital in the Western hemisphere (which is what you're insinuating) is clearly erroneous. In fact, what is your evidence of this seemingly baseless claim?</p>
<hr>
<p>OP, hmom5 has a history of being contradictory so I would take her words with a grain of salt (actually, forget a grain - you're better off buying out the whole Morton family). Earlier in this thread, she commented that:</p>
<p>you just lost a bit of creditibility with that quote stunt there...the guy in that thread was currently an accountant trying to get into banking, not an ibanking analyst deciding whether to accept a position as an associate or get an MBA...those are very different contexts, so its not really a contradiction by any sort of well reasoned logic</p>
<p>My advice is specific to the poster. If someone has not gone to a very top college and gotten top grades, it will take an MBA. In this case it was an accountant wondering if he could make a move now to WS. Given that was highly unlikely in this environment, I suggested an MBA to make the transition.</p>
<p>Grow up and read posts more closely. The phrase "Greenwich is the new NY" is a Wall Street insider joke, not a claim Greenwich will take over, just that it is the site of the most desireable jobs overall at this point in time for many in the industry.</p>
<p>Hi hmom5,
From your experience, have there been those who have worked in the Corp. Finance and M&A who are now CEOs of major multinational corporations, such as Hotel and Leisure? In addition, have some of them went on into Management Consulting? </p>
<p>I am certainly interested to know if having acquired the skills of M&A and Corp. Finance could be applied to any business industry, as far as transforming them into successful enterprise.</p>
<p>Former Wall Streeters have ended up everywhere. Many in Government positions like Paulson, many become CEO's, most often of companies they start, I've seen lots go to venture capital and of course other private equity (LBO and hedge funds) and teaching....but I can only recall one to management consulting (experienced people). It's such a different life.</p>
<p>The skill set translates to many, many things. The thing I've seen most is people retiring to start a venture based on a market opportunity they saw on the job.</p>
<p>Hi hmom5,
Thanks for the reply. For those in the M&A and Corp. Finance departments, have some of the strating Analysts came into those fields from other Management Counsulting firms, such as Mckinsey and the Boston Consulting Group? I have often learned that a few had gone into Management Consulting as Analysts for 2 years before deciding to work in M&A and Corp. Finance divisions of the respected investment banks for another 2 years before going to business school because they want to learn about both industries before moving on.</p>
<p>Well, that transition will most often come after an MBA when the former MC will enter an ibank as an associate. My husband is a MC and we often socialize with each other's crop of interns and junior staff. There's lots of overlap of interest.</p>
<p>listen heres the deal:
if you want to make a life out of business then do corp finance. these are the tools who envision themselves to one day be a bigshot CEO or executive and who will work 120/hours mindless grunt work to get there. theyre all about getting into leadership finance roles. there is something to be said about running a fortune 500 company or having people work for you but i personally do not see the attraction.</p>
<p>and no one jumps between consulting and banking. you only do this if you are a loser. the performers from both fields move to mostly private equity some hedge funds doing research</p>
<p>if you want to roll the dice and perhaps retire on a beach after 10 years of work then become a trader. this is primarily because performance is quantifiable. if you make money you will get paid big. several prop shops in chicago paid 24/25 year old traders about a million in bonus this year. if you lose money you go back and get an MBA and jump to banking or start your own company or something. quant jock or not does not matter. trading is very diverse and personailty is usually more important than brains after certain point. we hire the nerd PHD to do all the heavy math and programming work.</p>