<p>The comment above about rich,white kids going to the carribean on spring break is a stereotype,we go to Europe. ;)</p>
<p>Is the student paying any of the costs? It’s easy to spend other people’s money; I think many kids would reach different decisions on schools if they were footing the bill (or the difference between the higher priced and lower priced school). OTOH, if he wasn’t expected to pay anything and he would now be expected to pay the difference, that would be “punishing” him for getting a merit scholarship, which doesn’t seem like a good approach. We’ve told our D that we will put aside a portion of any merit money she gets and it will be available to her for other things, whether it’s study abroad, grad school, a downpayment, a car after graduation, etc. </p>
<p>I’m pretty familiar with Villanova - I went to high school in the town of Villanova, I have a relative who teaches at Villanova and have many, many relatives and friends who have gone to Villanova over the years, and while it’s a good school, the difference in education between Villanova and Fordham is not worth anywhere near $80,000 - in fact, I’m not sure the difference wouldn’t go the other way. Obviously there are non-academic or intangible factors in play here that are hard to value. I would ask the student to make the case for why Villanova is worth the extra money to him. At least then you know WHY you’re leaving $80K on the table.</p>
<p>OP: we were very lucky that our D ended up being “in love” with the school that offered her the best merit package. But back when she was making her final list of schools to apply, we told her what our maximum contribution would be and we also told her that since she was comfortable with all the schools on her list (total 5) we would not allow her to take out loans if she had a full ride sitting on the table; sorry not in this economy!</p>
<p>We also explained to her that if she went to a school with a better merit offer, we would be able to fund extras that would be unreachable if we had to pay our max out of pocket. i.e. study abroad, summer internships, clothing someplace besides Wal Mart 
So this summer we are able to fund her 4 week trip to Oxford; wouldn’t have been possible with some of the other schools. </p>
<p>A lot of the difference is theoretical and may evaporate once on campus. I’d ask my child to come up with some concrete reasons why Villanova is worth $20,000 more a year than Fordham. And not just “I like it.” But I’m a mean mommy ;)</p>
<p>For what it’s worth, I know two Villanova siblings, one who graduated a couple of years ago and one who currently attends. Both had acceptances and scholarships from other colleges. But the boy had that “Villanova is the one” feeling and the girl wanted a college that people have heard of, i.e., she felt that name recognition matters. They were both excellent students but got no merit aid at Villanova and ended up being full-pay (Villanova is very poor with non-need-based aid.)</p>
<p>For the brother, the feeling that Villanova was “the one” did not last long. In fact, he looked into transferring after the first year. He stayed, because he felt that in all probability, the other school would not be perfect either. The sister came to a similar conclusion during her freshman year. She worked as a tour guide at Villanova and often asked what other schools the prospective students were considering (quite often they were the same ones that had offered her scholarships), and she told me that she wished she could clue them in and tell them that the reality of college is often different from what is imagined.</p>
<p>Don’t get me wrong - both of these kids like Villanova, feel that they got good educations, took advantage of the offerings like study abroad, etc. But do they gush about Villanova? No. What kids don’t realize as high schoolers is that most decent colleges offer the same opportunities, so if you find one that you like well enough, give it a chance. If you’re not happy after your first year, you can always transfer. But if you want to transfer out of Villanova, the scholarship to Fordham will most likely not be there next year.</p>
<p>I live very close to Villanova. Go visit Fordham again. The difference in educational quality between the two is not that great. They’re both very good schools that would provide a very similar academic and social experience. Fordham would do it for a lot less.</p>
<p>The above story about college choice regret goes on ALL over at EVERY college,please don’t think it pertains only to Villanova…Fwiw college is also what you make of it,perhaps the above didn’t take advantage of what the school community has to offer, and it is possible they wouldn’t have been happy anywhere</p>
<p>Is Villanova the school where if you complete your bachelors, you can stay for an additional year at no charge and get your masters…or am I mixing that up with another one of the PA schools?</p>
<p>I really like the advice in this thread. The student should be able to articulate the differences, justify the extra cost, and also step up his own contribution. But the parents need to consider the arguments according to their own value system, and explain their own rationale for the options that they’re willing to provide. For some of us, the topic of “prestige” would be a non-starter, but for others it could be an important consideration. At the end of the day, it’s another step in the process of parenting.</p>
<p>To the OP: you mentioned the risk of forever hearing about him leaving his dream school behind. It doesn’t need to be that way. If done well by all parties, the long-term discussion could be about how the family worked together to make the best decision for all, in line with your values, at the culmination of a long process. But a lot depends on things that we can’t know in this forum, such as the backdrop of expectations that have already been set. If he’s been lead to believe that he can go anywhere he chooses, your task will be tougher because of that prior history (as it should be).</p>
<p>Tell your son this:</p>
<p>As a hiring manager for a large global firm, I would be more impressed by a Fordham degree on a resume than Villanova. </p>
<p>(Assuming of course that sort of thing matters to him…)</p>
<p>How we handled a similar situation:</p>
<p>Son received a full tuition scholarship at our excellent state flagship, early rolling admission. Yipee! The state U had an excellent program in his intended major. Yipee again!</p>
<p>Son received an acceptance from a very appealing (to him) reach school.</p>
<p>The difference, after FA at the private reach school was 10K per year.</p>
<p>Our son is quite debt averse. We told him that he could finance the gap with loans and work study. (fortunately, his earning prospects in his major --at that pre-recession time–were excellent) I figured this was the best way to determine how important this was to him.</p>
<p>After admitted-students visits to each school, he surprised me by choosing the more expensive one. He graduated in May and has already paid off half of his loans (I may have mentioned that he hates debt?)</p>
<p>I hope this may be helpful.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>If I were the parent or consulted by relatives with college aged kids who were contemplating Villanova, I’d ask them if that Masters degree would really add value to one’s grad school applications/job prospects/expand one’s educational horizons rather than an effective 5th year of undergrad. </p>
<p>If it is the latter, it really should not be factored in.</p>
<p>I knew if made a comment about the perception of the student body, I was at risk for push back. That’s okay. Of course any one student’s experience will be based on the group of students they end up dorming with, those they friend outside of the residence hall, as well as their own level of comfort with the finances they have. I personally had a cousin transfer from Nova, because although she loved it, she did not like not being able to keep up with the group she had befriended. </p>
<p>Looking at the College Board website, it does seem that there definite differences in the student body based on the stats posted there. At Nova only 67% of the freshman class even applied for aid, and of those only 71% were deemed to have need. So only approx 48% of the freshman class is even receiving FA. Compared to Fordham where 86% applied for aid, with 74% of those receiving it, for approx 64% of the students receiving FA. While both school report similar percentages of African Americans enrolled, Fordham has a higher percentage of Hispanics and Asians so it appears it is factual that Fordham is more ethnically and financially diverse. </p>
<p>Now whether that is important enough to any one student is up to the student and family to consider.</p>
<p>sju1, I feel your pain.
My son (who is currently a college sophomore) was offered a scholarship package (combination of academic and athletic) that was worth $30,000 per year at a school that cost $37,000 per year. The scholarship package would be renewed and increased if prices increased at the school.
As much as my son loved the coach and the people he met at the school, he just couldn’t see himself there for four years. Although the school has a good academic reputation, it is small and rural. My son thought it would be too isolated and “boring.” So he ended up at a much larger school in a city and LOVES it. Wouldn’t have been my choice at all - I love small, rural, and boring - but as I was reminded several times during the college search, I had already been to college. The scholarship package was much less but I couldn’t see forcing him to go somewhere that he didn’t want to be.
There are plenty of times when I think about the $$$$ we could be saving and sigh, for example when I’m eating cat food in the dark because our power has been turned off…just kidding…</p>
<p>I tried to add this to #49, but was too late:</p>
<p>ETA: we did end up spending more, for a variety of reasons, but the debt test was a good one for our family.</p>
<p>One more wrinkle to consider (that we didn’t articulate or think much about when we made initial decision), if you have other kids, how will the decision for this kid affect others’ choices? For us, we allowed S to choose a school that offered 1/2 tuition merit award instead of the one that gave full-ride (since they were different prices, even tho the total awards were similar, because the COA was so much lower at the OOS public, it would have been full-ride). This made D also apply to transfer to same U as S was attending, tho she didn’t qualify for or receive ANY merit awards. We know there was an argument we COULD have made that she couldn’t attend that U because it was so expensive & she didn’t get any merit awards but we didn’t and we ended up with TWO kiddos at that pricey U. </p>
<p>FWIW, both were quite happy there and we have no regrets, but it is quite a sum to spend on college, especially when you add up all we’ve paid and all we will continue to pay until D graduates next spring. We do think the contacts D is making will be helpful in her chosen field and we also are happy with the great opportunities both have had at their chosen U.</p>
<p>qodpa,</p>
<p>In your reply to my post, you said:</p>
<p>“The above story about college choice regret goes on ALL over at EVERY college,please don’t think it pertains only to Villanova…Fwiw college is also what you make of it,perhaps the above didn’t take advantage of what the school community has to offer, and it is possible they wouldn’t have been happy anywhere”</p>
<p>If you read my post again, you’ll see that I wrote that they did take advantage of the offerings at Villanova and that in general they were happy. But my point was that similar caliber schools all provide similar opportunities: excellent professors, study abroad choices, countless clubs and activities, volunteer opportunities, etc. Some just provide it for less if you get a scholarship. But once you turn down those scholarships as a freshman, they are normally not available to upperclassmen. You can always transfer to Villanova and pay full price, but it wont work the other way around.</p>
<p>And yes, of course my story is anecdotal, but so is yours about your daughter. As happy as your daughter is at Villanova - which is great its entirely possible that she could have been just as happy at another school. If money is not important, then I guess it doesn’t matter. But since educational cost is a consideration to the OP, all variables should be considered.</p>
<p>As you said above, college is what you make of it. And the lesson that you can be happy with less than top dollar is a good lesson for a kid to learn. Of course our kids always knew that cost was part of the equation. They knew going into the college search process that we would not pay full price for any school, even Harvard. But every family’s different.</p>
<p>My niece went to Nova. She and her parents met with Adcom (after she was accepted). They mentioned that she had received more scholarship from school x. It was a merit scholarship. She had received merit from Nova (just less). The Adcom asked that they stop by at the end of the tour/session. The Adcom had an increased offer then (that quick). Point is you should not assume Nova will not match. You should tell Nova about Fordham’s offer and see what they will do.</p>
<p>Niece ended up transferring from Nova. She had been accepted to State U with a Presidential scholarship and accepted into their Pharmacy program. Transferred to State U after her So. year - didn’t the scholarship and didn’t get into Pharmacy (they don’t take any transfers into the program).</p>
<p>Good luck</p>
<p>
Well, that doesn’t quite fit my experience of people who have plenty of money.</p>
<p>Indeed, it might have been a better analogy if I had said, would you choose a Mercedes for half price, or a BMW for full price? (Or the reverse.) If you are rich enough, this ceases to be a rhetorical question.</p>
<p>But this isn’t really the situation of the OP–I agree that in this case it’s hard to see how the difference in the two schools justifies the additional cost, given that the impact on the family finances is significant.</p>
<p>
It’s probably a matter of your own bias. You certainly can’t tell who really has money by observing their lifestyle. Of course, I’m not referring to the stratospherically wealthy. But if you don’t think tons of full pay families drive very old cars, eat at home, look for deals, and take cheap vacations, you’re very mistaken.</p>
<p>
A car is a material good that can be purchased at any point in someone’s adult life, provided they have the means. An education is something that becomes a part of who you are, and you can’t put a price on that. Unfortunately, the US college system does put a price on it, and the US socio-economic system makes many unable to pay. So while you have to make value judgments, a comparison to cars does not fit.</p>
<p>Can someone tell me why any parent would let their child apply to a school that can NOT be afforded without merit aid??? I can see why one may apply needing financial aid, as Fafsa let’s you have an idea of need and parental costs…I think it is a a bad idea to have a child apply to their #1 school,get accepted but the merit aid is low or non-existent,and the parent tells the child,sorry,too expensive…Unless of course, this is discussed in advance</p>