I’m getting the impression from others that IST/informatics is for students more interested in Business. Do you agree?
Note that Informatics/computing is NOT the same as IT (also called mis).
MIS is more or less computer applications for business. It involves little math but isn’t very technical.
Informatics is a branch of CS that focuses on technical (not business) applications: cybersecurity, U/x interface, app design, software…
Informatics is to CS what statistics is to math, whereas IT/mis would be to CS what accounting is to math.
You have to look at the specific majors as each college may have different requirements and definitions.
I provided a few links above, they show what ist/Informatics includes, what courses are required, etc. It’d give you a direct idea.
Someone else explained to me why weighted GPA doesn’t matter, but I still don’t understand. I do understand that different schools weight differently, whether it is the high schools comparing to other high schools or colleges that are translating high school grades to their scales, respectively. Nevertheless, the colleges know and CARE that you took more rigorous courses, so if an applicant with AP everything and an applicant with CP everything both apply based on their unweighted GPAs, the “average GPA” is different (in the mind of the school) from one applicant to another.
In this line of reasoning, would it stand that an AP student might only need to be, say, 50% or higher in GPA and a CP student 75% or higher? Also (and here I’m going to show where my son got his lack of aptitude for math), should I interpret “75% or higher” to mean that if one looks at an average GPA of, say, a 3.8 (making a 4.0 the upper end of the spectrum for that school) that you should think of the average for a non athlete or institutional admit to be a 3.9 or higher?
I think of “business” as being “economics.” If this is the case then it is definitely not for him. If that isn’t what it means and it is more that he’s the techy-smart-quiet guy that the business guys turn to for things (and I don’t even know how to define “things”), then that sounds more like him.
The course lists are a foreign language to me, with the exception of counting the number of math classes required for each. Overall, is Informatics/computing less competitive than computer science and, if so, are the job opportunities less rewarding?
Blockquote Are you familiar with programs that aren’t so focused on Python?
I didn’t read this entire thread, and I just came across the above question. I’ve been in IT industry for 26 years (currently an IT team lead), and I’m also a mom of a Senior HS who’s going to CS major for Fall 2021. So I just want to chime in to help with my perspective.
The question above about Python caught my attention. These days, Python is one of the EASIEST programming languages, and my son also agrees. If your son doesn’t like or enjoy Python, he’s not fit for a CS major.
I also agree that CS major is very math-heavy.
He likes Java. Does that make a difference in your reply. I’m not sure it was that he didn’t like Python or the ease vs rigor of Python. I think the program he did might have just been not that great. Maybe he would enjoy a different one. I’m not sure
@OliveLewis I’m going to circle back to thinking about a smaller, liberal-arts college with an interesting CS program. Some of these have only a couple of required math classes (although of course, those may have their own pre-requisites). But I believe that they tend not to have weed-out courses and they tend to have good advising. I would definitely consider taking the interesting courses first, and leaving the math until it is required. You would want the first semester or two to be a positive, confidence-building experience, not the opposite. Also, after a semester or two on campus, hopefully your son would have friends and a support system, and would know others who have already taken the required math courses, providing additional support.
Also, I can’t over-estimate the importance of attending office hours. Office hours are for good students who want to be better, as well as students who are potentially struggling. Getting in the habit of attending office hours is really important.
There is a consortium of liberal arts colleges that go under the name “Colleges that Change Lives”, There is a website and also a book about them. One or more of them may be a good match for your son. Cornell College (not Cornell University) is in this consortium – and it looks like it has very minimal math requirements for a CS degree. It also uses the block plan, meaning the students study one course at a time (for a couple of weeks) and then move to the next – they still complete four courses a semester. That may be of interest to you.
Also, I would consider the benefits of going to a college where he is among the best students academically. It will leave him more time to focus on what he loves if the other classes are not overwhelming, and will also allow him to succeed and be noticed by faculty – which often translates into additional opportunities for internships, etc. If he finds that he is really under-challenged, he can always consider transferring after he has built up a solid academic record where he is.
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There are different types of Java (and different complexity levels), and it’s great if he likes Java at least for the one that he was exposed to.
Just saying that being in CS major means one will need to learn all sorts of software and programming. Yes of course, a student can form their own preferences, what they like and don’t like. But the student needs to have open mind, ready to learn, and have the aptitude to learn so much technical stuff.
When we reviewed and compared CS curriculum of different colleges, I can see that Python is pretty much in almost all curriculum. And if we didn’t see Python in the curriculum, then it means that CS program is not good, so we crossed it out.
He could still consider going to CS major or IT major. He just needs to be very prepared for a lot of complex technical stuff and Math-based learning.
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@OliveLewis I sent you a PM.
Here again, could you be more specific about “math-based learning?” You have the obvious math requirements (I’m not going to count Physics, since he will take Biology), but then I get the impression that the math based learning depends on the sub field within CS you pursue. I’ve heard to avoid AI and Theory, for example. Do you know what the break-down is or are you generalizing based on what your son has done and/or the school he goes to?
I’m reading over what I’ve written and I hope it doesn’t sound like I’m challenging you. I’m just genuinely trying to decipher whether it is inevitable that he will get bogged down in math, no matter how many math-bullets he attempts to dodge.
Schools do not look at weighted GPA for exactly the reasons you state. Every school counts differently. Many schools re-calculate their own GPA based on their own formula. Some add weight for honors. Some add weight for dual enrollment. They add weight for AB or IB. They also have the school profile which may have the breakdown of grades given sometimes down to the specific class. Other times it shows where your gpa puts you in comparison to other students in your school. Because of all these factors saying you have a weighted 3.5 is less informative than saying you have an unweighted 3.5. UGA gives instructions on their blog how to calculate a UGA GPA and that is the GPA they use for admission.
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He will likely have to take calculus based Physics in college if he pursues computer science. Might be worth considering taking Physics in high school to have a foundation.
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As far as averages go, even if you have an average GPA that means 50% of those admitted have a higher GPA. And you are right the average GPA is driven down by athletes and institutional admits at many schools. That is why we were told it’s a good idea to look and see whether your unweighted GPA and test scores are both above 75% to consider it a match. That formula has worked well for both of our boys in constructing their college lists
Which AP CS class has he taken? Our school offers two - one is significantly easier (CS Principles). The other is more in line with what a computer science major would take (CS A) and gives credit as such. Check the AP lists but at our state colleges CS Principles gives credit for a CS elective that is not a required CS course for a CS major - it counts as a social science elective. Can he take CS A to see if he likes the nuts and bolts of what a CS major actually does?
Here are some web pages of college CS courses. Perhaps the student can go through them to get an idea of what CS may be like:
https://cs10.org/ – the kind of course that AP CS principles is modeled on, more of an overview course for non-CS majors and prospective CS majors with no previous CS knowledge
https://cs61a.org/ – an introductory CS course using Python
https://datastructur.es/ – a data structures course, like a more difficult version of AP CS A
http://www.eecs70.org/ – a discrete math course, the kind of math that is generally required for CS majors
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Informatics is typically less competitive because it is newer and requires less math/physics. There is no shortage of job openings, especially in cybersecurity, so job prospects are good.
In terms of IT/MIS, yes often they’d be the technology guy who helps the business people but it depends on the program itself and the % of technical v. management courses.
(You may enjoy reading Attachments by Rainbow Rowell!)
@OliveLewis @mmrl8794 Asking the group – my understanding is that even though a CS degree tends to need a lot of math, a lot of CS jobs (including a lot of programming jobs, especially database work) don’t require much math. So if OliveLewis’ son can get the degree, he may have a career that doesn’t involve much math.
Can others chime in?
Some good news and bad news. The good news is that for the type of programming jobs you described you don’t need much math (I know people who works for Google without having even gone to college). The bad news is you’ll be limited to those basic programming jobs. And worse, it’s highly likely some, and perhaps many, of those jobs will be replaced by machines in a not-too-distant future.
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While many computing jobs may not require math per se, they do require the ability to think logically and understand math-based concepts like computational complexity (so that the developer does not write a program that takes far too long or consumes far too much computing resources if given a larger data set to work on).
Of course, some areas of computing like cryptography do require more math.
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