Safety School help (please, please, please)

<p>I just met with my school's guidance counselor, and she recommended some safeties for me that I have a hard time accepting as safeties. I see no reason to think that schools like WashU, Emory, UCLA, and UC Berkeley would admit me (out of state for UCs) without question, and Emory especially tends to reject people who appear to be using Emory as a safety.</p>

<p>That said, I'm starting to come to terms with the reality that my objective stats are pretty good. I have a 4.0 unweighted GPA and will have taken 15 APs by the time I graduate. My SAT score is 2300+, and I got an 800 on my first subject test. I have a few local awards for math and science competitions, national awards for art and writing (Scholastic) contests and a couple literary nonfiction pieces published in magazines. I also have around 500 hours of community service from a single source (what I plan to write my essay on) and around a hundred from varied ones and am being recruited by some D3 schools and a D1 as a potential varsity athlete. I plan to hold my essay(s) to the same standards as I would were I publishing them. Teachers universally adore me.</p>

<p>But then I skim over the admissions results forums and get scared. (Chances are good for scaring me, too.) My garage doesn't house a fully functioning nuclear reactor. I'm not a Native American farm girl in Arkansas who became mayor of a small town after earning approval from my two mothers. I'm questioning my choice of "matches," too.</p>

<p>That aside, I'm looking for a small to medium school in a medium to large city (so no state schools). The only religious affiliation I'm comfortable with is Pastafarianism, but I appreciate (and myself harbor) a religious devotion to baking cookies. I guess I'm trying to say that I'd like a school with an intellectually stimulating life beyond the classroom.</p>

<p>So.</p>

<p>Any recommendations for safeties? Since you've slugged through all this, how about some matches and reaches? Any good knock-knock jokes to calm me down or distract me?</p>

<p>“I just met with my school’s guidance counselor, and she recommended some safeties for me that I have a hard time accepting as safeties. I see no reason to think that schools like WashU, Emory, UCLA, and UC Berkeley would admit me (out of state for UCs) without question, and Emory especially tends to reject people who appear to be using Emory as a safety.”</p>

<p>your GC is wrong to say that those are safeties even tho you have fab stats. Those schools aren’t safeties for anyone and they do reject people with your stats.</p>

<p>Safeties also have to be affordable. You have to know FOR SURE that you have all costs covered. If you need FA, then you can’t be sure that any of those will be affordable unless your family (both parents) are low income and you’re instate for the UCs (are you?). </p>

<p>So, what is your major and career goal?</p>

<p>What is your home state?</p>

<p>What are your parents saying about how much they’ll pay? Are you low income? Middle income (around $50-80k)? Upper Middle ($85k-140k)? more?</p>

<p>m2ck is on point. The time to have The Big Money Talk is now. You need to find out how your parents expect your to pay for your education. Will they cover some or all of it? If so, what is the maximum amount each year? Will they pay for an extra semester or summer term or even year if you change majors and need more time? Then, as soon as your parents get their taxes filed this April, ask them to sit down and run the Net Price Calculators at the websites of the places that are currently on your list and at at least one of your own home-state public Us. The NPCs will yield estimates for financial aid, so you will have a decent notion about whether the place can be made affordable.</p>

<p>Yes I know that right now you aren’t interested in state Us (other than possibly those in CA for some reason), but not all of them are huge, and not all of them are located in the middle of nowhere. University of Iowa, University of WI - Madison, U of MN - TC are big, but smack in the center of very lively cities. Towson U is not as big or as well known, but right next to Baltimore. Chances are that your own home state has a perfectly fine public U safety option for you. </p>

<p>Your stats are excellent. There are a number of places that would grant you automatic admission. Check this list, and see if any could work: <a href=“Updated list of schools with auto-admit (guaranteed admission) criteria - Applying to College - College Confidential Forums”>Updated list of schools with auto-admit (guaranteed admission) criteria - Applying to College - College Confidential Forums;

<p>Your counselor is setting you up to be shut out, in which case your safety is to attend a community college, then transfer after two years to one of your state universities, if you do well at community college. This is not necessarily a bad route, but it appears that students aiming for MIT and the like tend to see it as a big let-down.</p>

<p>Yes, be sure to talk to your parents about money. Note that the UCs’ financial aid does not cover the $23,000 additional tuition for out-of-state students (check the net price calculators).</p>

<p>If money is a big constraint, take a look at these automatic large scholarships:
<a href=“Automatic Full Tuition / Full Ride Scholarships - #300 by BobWallace - Financial Aid and Scholarships - College Confidential Forums”>Automatic Full Tuition / Full Ride Scholarships - #300 by BobWallace - Financial Aid and Scholarships - College Confidential Forums;

<p>Also these if you have National Merit status:
<a href=“NMF Scholarships: An Updated Compilation - #833 by BobWallace - National Merit Scholarships - College Confidential Forums”>NMF Scholarships: An Updated Compilation - #833 by BobWallace - National Merit Scholarships - College Confidential Forums;

<p>Your home state public universities may have additional scholarships for state residents.</p>

<p>muhlenberg college for the match
butler university and drake university as standbys (that said no guarantee any school will accept you or for that matter reject you) </p>

<p>OP, you need to answer all of m2ck’s questions and also tell us what you want to study, but schools that come to mind for someone with your stats would be Brandeis, Oberlin, Macalester, Grinnell, Whitman, Reed, Case Western, Richmond and Rochester. Lehigh and Lafayette might throw some significant merit money at you, as well.</p>

<p>For students with super high stats, finding matches and safeties is very difficult.
1° A real safety is a school that you like and are 100% sure you can afford. Run the Net Price Calculators on your state’s flagship, various universities and LACS, and talk with your parents. (Each school will calculate differently).
If you are a CA resident, applying to various UC’s would make one a safety. While UCB and UCLA include holistic elements that see “amazing stats without a story” applicants shut out, these tend to admit CA residents with your stats, as well as the other UCs, so they may be safeties, however OOS the $50,000 pretty much puts them out of reach for most applicants. IF your parents have that much money in the bank, X4, then you could consider UCSD, UCD, UCSB… a safety. With your stats, you should definitely apply to “meet 100% need” schools if you need financial aid, then apply to schools that provide good merit. You want to look at the percentage of students getting merit aid at a given college but, most importantly, how much is given (since you’d likely be selected for merit it at the colleges that provide it, the latter is more important for you).
<a href=“Aiming for Colleges That Are Generous With Merit Aid - The New York Times”>Aiming for Colleges That Are Generous With Merit Aid - The New York Times;
<a href=“How to Find Merit Scholarships: Follow the Money - Do It Yourself College Rankings”>http://diycollegerankings.com/how-to-find-merit-scholarships-follow-the-money/4355/&lt;/a&gt;
2° To be sure you’ll get in, consider that a safety is a school with 40-50% admit rate (your state flagship’s honors program, for which you’d apply as soon as the app is up, would be one). Good schools with lower admit rates tend to be located in the heartland and the South. For instance, Grinnell has a high admit rate in relation to its quality, because the group is highly self-selected. UAlabama would be a safety (honors college, honors dorm, presidential scholarship quaranteed, and you’d be quite competitive for the competitive scholarship). St Olaf meets 100% need and is quite a good school that would give you merit but it’s much less competitive than Carleton and Macalester (it’s the #3 of the bunch, still quite ahead of those ranked below). A match would be a college that admits 25-40% applicants.
So, while your counselor is correct based on stats alone, selectivity makes his/her recommendations untrue in terms of matches and safeties, and this is not taking into account affordability.</p>

<p>It’s relieving to know I’m not alone in my opinion of my guidance counselor. The current seniors had less than stellar results at the top schools—but the two years preceding sent around 40 kids to ivies each—so I’m curious to see how RD plays out.</p>

<p>I’m at a private school in Florida (Tampa area), and financial aid is out of the question. My parents have set aside in a bank account labeled “education” enough money to cover four years anywhere. That said, merit scholarships can’t hurt and, if nothing else, could help with a semester abroad or a shattered ego. (I’m also a solid 5 points above Florida’s highest recent national merit semifinalist cutoff.)</p>

<p>I’d like to major in two seemingly unrelated yet fundamentally inextricable fields like math and philosophy, physics and poetry, or something along those lines. As for careers, I’m sixteen. I don’t know. Whatever I do wind up pursuing, though, likely won’t require a major not offered by most schools.</p>

<p>Actually, pursuing math & philosophy isn’t that uncommon at good schools where the math major isn’t necessarily geared toward preparing secondary school teachers :)</p>

<p>Yes, math & philosophy are a terrific combination. </p>

<p>OP, you sound like a very bright and reasonable young man. You may be more inclined to a university, but if you’re interested at all in LACs, do check out Carleton, Macalester and Grinnell, which all have strong math departments. (With regard to the first two, the Minneapolis-St. Paul region seems to be kind of a math mecca. Fiske Guide specifically cites Carleton & Mac as both having strong math and computer science departments.) </p>

<p>I’ve got a math kid who loves philosophy, too, so I’ve done a fair amount of research. Carleton is more competitive (although I think you’d be a very strong candidate from the sound of your accomplishments), but Macalester and Grinnell should be solid matches for you and if you show them enough love–i.e., “demonstrated interest”–I’m guessing they’d be close to safeties for you. Also, Grinnell has been known to use merit money to entice top students. Check 'em out!</p>

<p>And if you’re looking for a true safety, throw an application in to Bama. They have tremendous NMF scholarships and a highly regarded philosophy department. I would imagine their math department is just fine too. </p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

<p>I would apply to one of two good schools that have Early Action/Rolling (ex. UMichigan and Tulane are used by many here as an Ivy safety) – then you will have that acceptance in by December so you will be set.</p>

<p>A school can be a safety only if you don’t have to show interest. Tulane expects interest in spades, but I agree that it’s a school that is likely to be interested in you if you apply in September and demonstrate interest by email and phone and attending college night. You’re probably also a candidate for big money at Tulane if you apply early. Tulane is also generous with full-tuition merit. I’d hesitate to think of UMich as a safety for just about anyone oos. Apply early and you should be fine if you can afford it.</p>

<p>Congratulations on the Scholastic awards you mentioned! I love seeing people who have won those :)</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Actually, finding safeties should not be too hard for such students, since such students will qualify for most or all of the automatic admission and automatic merit scholarship offers out there. However, it is often the case that the super high stats students don’t want to go to places like their own state’s public universities or many of the automatic admission and automatic merit scholarship schools.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>In that region, do not forget the University of Minnesota - Twin Cities, with good and deep math and CS departments, and not super selective or super expensive.</p>

<p>In terms of math, how advanced are you in math? If you are very advanced, then you may find that some smaller schools’ math offerings are too limited; check course catalogs and schedules carefully.</p>

<p>A true safety meets these criteria:

  1. Affordability (if your college fund is upwards of $250k, you are fine for just about any place in the country).
  2. Flat-out guarantee of automatic admission based on your stats and/or some other special talent/ability. For example if the coach who likes you so much has the power to guarantee that you get in. And yes, your stats flat-out guarantee you admission at a bunch of places. See the threads on automatic merit-aid and on guaranteed admissions that are linked above.
  3. Your potential major is available.Check the auto admit list. Many of them will offer what you’re interested in.
  4. You will be happy to attend if all else goes wrong in the admission process. This one is a bit tougher. Yes, you could be an auto-admit, and your major might be on offer, but a visit to NeverHeardOfItU might reveal that there is no way you could make yourself happy there. So do make an effort to swing by a couple of your safeties for a quick visit.</p>

<p>All that said, your stats are exceptional, so you have plenty of very safe (if not truly, completely safe) options out there. Lots of nice LACs would like you.</p>

<p>Assuming you go to the high school I’m thinking about, yes Emory does have a well developed relationship with your school, and that affiliation will likely help your chances. If you do consider Emory, apply to its Scholars program as this will both show interest and potentially lower the cost
<a href=“Welcome to Emory College.”>Welcome to Emory College.; </p>

<p>Brandeis would likely admit you, although it’s not a safety. Meets your criteria, and it’s a place where an atheist would feel comfortable (considering oneself agnostic/atheist and Reform Jewish is extremely common).</p>

<p>I would be surprised if Occidental didn’t admit you, although the math program is a bit weak.</p>

<p>I do think that the University of Washington would be a great safety (I know you said no big state schools) if you’re looking at UCLA. Minus the weather and popular sport, the two schools are basically the same although UW might be a bit more aesthetically appealing. </p>

<p>Throwing in an application to Cal Tech and/or MIT can’t hurt and though the former is highly specialized, it has an outstanding philosophy program. </p>

<p>Wash U St. Louis is a popular alternative for students looking at Emory although it’s significantly more selective. </p>

<p>If you’re looking for a more alternative education, check out Colorado College which features the one course at a time option. I’m not sure how it is for math majors, but the plan essentially allows students to solely focus on one subject for three weeks, meaning you become completely immersed in it. It’s become more popular recently although I don’t consider it as selective as other schools with a sub-25% admit rate for a full pay student. </p>

<p>I’m pretty impressed with all of this. The tennis coaches at LACs have responded best to my college related fears and attempts at comic relief. The Caltech coach is convinced that I’d be perfect there, but athletic recruiting at Caltech makes for some really funny stories. And, for reasons I still don’t understand, the WashU coach just doesn’t want to recruit me.</p>

<p>Still, I’m definitely adding an auto-admit to the list. As for Tulane, what are some good ways to show interest without showing that I don’t want to show interest? For schools that offer merit scholarships, like Emory and University of Miami, does indicating an interest in merit money significantly affect a school’s view of me? Also, what’s a reasonable number of schools to apply to? I’ve spoken to people who’ve done 2 (ED + rolling safety) to upwards of 20. </p>

<p>The number of schools to apply to can range from one (if your first choice is an affordable safety that you like more than any other school) to any number within your willingness to do applications and pay application (and test score sending) fees.</p>

<p>Start by finding an affordable safety that you genuinely like (so that it will not be a let-down to attend). Then add any number other schools you might like more than your safety (no point in applying anywhere you would not choose over your safety).</p>

<p>^ Average test scores are a bit lower at Colorado College compared to some other schools with admit rates below 25%. Averages are in the high 600s per SAT section (or ~30 ACT), not the low 700s as they would be at, say, Carleton (which actually has a higher admission rate.) It’s safer than WashU and probably safer than UCLA. However, their admissions are a little quirky. They seem to reject some kids with very strong stats and accept others I wouldn’t have expected to make it (although I really think the OP would make it.) They do have merit scholarships.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>You should fit right in there. You might also like Reed College or Macalester (other LACs in medium-/large-sized cities) as “match” possibilities. </p>