Safety School Quandry

Parents Forum
1

<p>I posted this on another thread but got little response so I figured that this would be a more apppropriate place for feedback.</p>

<p>I understand that this is a good "problem" to have but it is actually more vexing than one might imagine on the face of it, and I would lik eto hear how others have dealt with or have analyzed the following:</p>

<p>How does one quantify the benefit of going to one's "dream" school at full boat when one has a safety that provides a full free ride.</p>

<p>This must be a question tha many ccers have since so many are high achievers.</p>

<p>So how does one decide to pass up on a full free ride at a school that the student likes but is admittedly a safety? How do you quantify the benefit of having that "pedigree" or prestige name on your diploma in 4 years as opposed to being an honors grad for free from a more modest but very respected university?</p>

<p>I would really like to hear some feedback on this.</p>

<p>It is really hard to imagine walking away from a $150000 gift and pay full freight at a top school (that the student also likes) but it must happen a lot.</p>

<p>Thanks in advance.</p>

2

<p>What would matter to me as a parent is whether the safety school seems like a good fit academically and socially. If it is, think what that $150,000 could provide for graduate school expenses, a car, down payment on a house for your child or a more comfortable retirement for you. You get the bragging rights for being accepted. You could get additional bragging rights for getting a sweet financial deal. JMO.</p>

3

<p>We faced this situation two and a half years ago when our daughter was offered full ride for all four years at our quite-respectable state school. However, after much soul searching we decided to let her go to uiuc as her major was going to be chemical engineering and the school was ranked in the top 10 in the nation in her field of choice. She was offered some merit aid but this barely made a dent in the out-of-state tuition costs. The decision turned out to be the right one for her, she is thriving and likes the challenging atmosphere of the very rigorous program. She thinks it drives her to perform at her best. During her freshman and sophomore years, she had a research scholarship and worked in a world class lab with cutting-edge research facilities. She did an internship with a multinational global corporation last summer (opportunity through campus interview).<br>
Yes, it is costing us a lot of money, but we had planned for this and started early with saving for our kids' college expenses. Every family will need to make the the decision based on their own individual circumstances. For us, we don't regret our decision at all. We feel she is getting unique opportunities at a top-notch school and making excellent use of them.</p>

4

<p>Agree with above. If the safety is a "very respected" university, then there's no real downside to getting the UG degree there for free and having the huge advantage of graduating debt free and having that $150,000-plus sum available for other future needs. Paying for grad school --- go for the prestige name then if that matters to chosen profession --- is less of a worry. The money saved on UG expense can be invested and one day provide a down payment on a house or money to start a business. A full-ride at a school the student likes and that has a strong reputation is frankly too good a deal to turn down, IMO.</p>

5

<p>our son is attending RPI which was a safety/very strong match because of the $25,000 in scholarships they offered. Of course he did like the school when visiting, which we did a number of times because my wife is an alum and we passed it many times on the way to Vermont for skiing.</p>

<p>It has been wonderful so far. He is a junior and will be only 2 courses short of graduation after next semester even though he will graduate with a computer science/psychology major and philosophy minor. He is on track to graduate with high honors with a 3.80 gpa after this semester, was inducted into the comp sci honorary society his soph year(jr status), was offered a paid undergraduate lab assistantship this year at $15/hr and will be starting work on his MS degree next fall. Because he is near the top of his class he has interviewed for a couple of nice internships for this summer though he hasn't heard anything yet. And last summer he stayed in Troy to work with a prof on an open source software project.</p>

<p>The reason I mention these things is to illustrate the great opportunities available to students who excel academically. The faculty know who these students are and many benefits come their way. And he is attending a wonderful college giving him $100,000 in scholarships while on track to earning both a BS and MS in 4-1/2 years. If he plays his cards right, his total cost for tuition and fees will be about $21,000!</p>

<p>But RPI is a good fit academically and socially for him. If it were not, it would not be such a bargain.</p>

<p>Colleges like Cornell and CMU would have been good matches for him. But at the end of 4 years he would probably have graduated with a BS, been $100,000 poorer and not had the extra academic doors open for him I cited above.</p>

<p>I think he made the right choice and more importantly, so does he.</p>

6

<p>
[quote]
How does one quantify the benefit of going to one's "dream" school at full boat when one has a safety that provides a full free ride.</p>

<p>This must be a question tha many ccers have since so many are high achievers.

[/quote]
It is as rare as hen's teeth. True merit-only full rides are 1 in a 1000. Your son is to be congratulated. How your family approaches the decision is cpmpletely up to the unique issues facing your family. Grad school, health, retirement, other children, elderly parents not to mention the fit and quality of the safety school will all come into play. It is a fine problem to have.</p>

7

<p>See, there's no clear answer to this because personalities are varying degrees of frugality, not to mention financial capability.</p>

<p>So, ASSUMING that the safety is a decent fit, I personally wouldn't even consider the "dream" at full price. There are simply WAY too many alternative uses (many of them life altering) for $160,000.</p>

<p>
[quote]
It is really hard to imagine walking away from a $150000 gift and pay full freight at a top school (that the student also likes) but it must happen a lot.

[/quote]

No, it does not happen a lot because (A) full rides are rare and (B) 96% of the families couldn't afford to do anything but walk away from the so-called dream school.</p>

8

<p>DuckPondParent-
Having been in the same situation last year, I can appreciate your dilemma. S had the opportunity to attend his supposed ‘dream’ Ivy league school at full freight or what he considered his ‘safety’ with a substantial scholarship. The difference over four years was estimated at approximately $125k. What made the decision more difficult was that he was being told by fellow students and some of the staff of his high school that he would be ‘nuts’ not to attend the Ivy League school.</p>

<p>This is what we proposed to S to help him make his decision: We told him how much money was in his college fund. It was enough to pay for an undergraduate degree at any university/college he chose. We told him that, beyond that amount, we may not be able to provide any funding, since, most likely, by the time he completes his undergraduate degree we will be on a fixed income. Since he is interested in a graduate degree, he needed to consider this fact.</p>

<p>Next, to help him make his decision we encouraged him to make a chart with all the factors he felt were important to him in a college/university and really think about each factor in relation to the school. It included items such as ranking of his intended major(s)/minor(s), location, size, prestige, research/co-op opportunities, job placement, campus size/aesthetics, extracurricular activities of interest to him, surrounding area/campus town, how the school ‘felt’, school pride, alumni connections, food, dorms, etc…Anything he wanted to list. We then asked him to rate each school on a 1 to 5 scale without considering the name of the institution. Then we told him to total up the points. </p>

<p>What was interesting was, when he looked at each school this way, he was able to objectively evaluate the schools. What he learned was that his ‘safety’ actually was a better ‘fit’ for him. (His ‘dream’ school did not offer one of the two areas he was most interested in studying) Even when he tried to ‘fudge’ some of the data, the ‘safety’ still came out ahead. </p>

<p>He chose and is now attending what he originally considered his ‘safety’. It is a large state university which is ranked in the top 25 of all the majors in which he is interested. He says he is happy, working hard, learning, and very busy. He has also met a lot of very bright, motivated students. He will also have enough money left in his college fund to pay for almost any graduate program he desires with the exception of medical school (not a career he seems to be interested in) and finish with no debt.</p>

<p>I think having him focus on the ‘big’ picture of thinking ahead to finances (both family and personal), job placement and graduate school let him look beyond the ‘prestige’ of a school and really look at what was best for him as an individual and a student. </p>

<p>The best to you DuckPondParent. It is your young adult’s choice of what school to attend. However, students at this age can become all caught up in the prestige factor, particularly in certain parts of the country and in certain school districts. IMO, it is your duty as a parent to guide this young adult into making the best decision for ‘him’ (and your family) and not base it on outside pressures.</p>

<p>The best to you DuckPondParent and your student.</p>

9

<p>As others have said there are many other alternatives than the two presented by the OP, and many for less than top tier full freight. The OP presents a very rare black and white situation of only 2 options at opposite ends of the spectrum. In reality, once you start looking at "fit" and what you want out of your college education, then many other options come into the picture and it's more than just a matter of selecting between two extremes based on price tag. Not everyone can put a black and white price tag on the "value" of a college education (and nor should they, imo). For instance, if full ride is at a huge state school (or any school for that matter) that is just not "right" for the student, for whatever reason, the student may not be happy there and may be more likely to fail or drop out.</p>

10

<p>My S was offered a full-ride at two OOS publics, UAz & AzSU. He was also offered substantial merit aid at two different private Us ($80,000), which would end up costing us $100,000 total over 4 years. He ultimately chose one of the private Us, where he just completed his 1st semester. He is very happy there & thriving, so we couldn't be happier for him.
So much depends on the student. Yes, you can purchase a lot of educational opportunities for $100,000, but we are glad that the school S is attending meets his ed & social needs and that he is thriving there. Our family can afford this & he has worked hard to get to this U (which he considered a safety he loved).</p>

11

<p>Our NMF son could have gone to the state university - not at 100%, but at well under half the cost of his top pick. And it was highly ranked in his chosen major. But we felt that he would be best off at a smaller school with personal attention and that he would get lost and drift at a huge school. His first semester has supported that decision - teachers and housing staff were able to give him individual attention and were more than willing to get involved and help. We also knew that the freshman advisor was watching out for him and was prepared to step in with any assistance. Had he gone through the problems he encountered in a large university, I'm not so sure there would have been postive outcomes.</p>

<p>The school of choice was not picked for the name per se but for its excellent fit. Nevertheless, the name does mean something significant within the field of his selected major because of the reputation of the education. And we picked it over an Ivy.</p>

<p>That being said, we had saved for college since he was born - he's an only child, and we will be able to borrow within the family when it becomes necessary. The investment to us is worth it - plus the school of choice is one of the top in the country for well paying jobs so he will be able to reimburse us part of the cost! Had our financial situation been different, however, it's very likely he would have gone to the state U.</p>

12

<p>I went with my dream school over a very generous merit offer at another top school. I also passed up Princeton's no loan package. It was worth it to me and my family and we think it's a good investment. I have taken a gap year and will contribute $20K from my earnings for year 1 and will continue to contribute substantially from off term earnings.</p>

13

<p>My best friend growing up chose a small state school with a full-tuition scholarship over her dream school since we were children (Gettysburg, she's always been a Civil War buff). She decided since the state school was nearly free (only paid room and board) and she got no money from Gettysburg (was a big surprise, she had excellent stats) that it was a better choice to go to the state school (which has an excellent reputation for her area - education). </p>

<p>She's now in her 3rd year teaching, she really blossomed (socially) during her undergrad education and is happy (most of the time) with her job.</p>

<p>To make a long story short, most extremely intelligent people can be happy anywhere if they have the proper attitude, imo.</p>

14

<p>Why do people assume that safety schools and dream schools are mutually exclusive? You truly can be happy anywhere if you have the proper mindset. Also, there are more places to get scholarships than from the college, so you can go to your "dream" Ivy for a more reasonable cost.</p>

15

<p>Evil_Robot's story is a must read on this subject:
<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=37237%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=37237&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

16

<p>
[quote]
Also, there are more places to get scholarships than from the college, so you can go to your "dream" Ivy for a more reasonable cost

[/QUOTE]
</p>

<p>This is very much true, particularly, if one qualifies for financial aid, is an URM, or is a woman entering a field that is traditionally male. For an individual who does not fall into any of the above categories, the availability of private scholarship money is not very abundant and quite competitive. The probability of receiving one of these outside scholarships is somewhat small. Also, many are for only a small amount of money which doesn't go very far on an education bill that can exceed $40k per year.</p>

17

<p>My nephew had that dilemma a few years back, an ivy with a little merit money or Honors program at State U free ride. After much anguish, he took the free ride, got a masters at a top U and then another degree in a profession that will never pay him enough money to have paid back what the loans would have been for the ivy. It is a hard decision.</p>

18

<p>I agree with Carolyn that I dont like the term "safety"
I think there are good fits & poor fits- although they can certainly vary in their admittance rate.
A school that admits less than 40% of applicants, some even down to fewer than 10% of applicants are not going to be a sure thing or a "good bet" for anyone.</p>

<p>Some schools will offer only need based aid- some also have merit & some will gap your aid package.
So after you have your list of schools that are all good fits- it comes down to deciding how much in debt you want to be for undergrad & if the differences are worth the difference in cost.
We decided that the rigor at Ds school was worth more money-however, if she had been planning on attending a graduate program that wasnt known for research stipends, we might have gone for a less expensive school</p>

19

<p>I've also seen the reverse. A father bribed his son to take the merit offer. Son went to the school, was bored out of his skull and got thrown out after two years.</p>

<p>I'd say don't spend money you don't truly have, but in my lifetime, travelling around the globe, it has been the stellar peer groups that have made the places interesting. The peer groups at Ivies are fantastic--not for business connections but for life long friendships. It's as interesting a group of peers as one is likely to encounter. That would be well worth the $200K IMO--but only if that money is readily available.</p>

<p>A counter to evil-robot's story is tlaktan's story.</p>

20

<p>I always viewed the word 'safety' as a term that included 'good fit' but had average admission statistics significantly below that of the applicant. To me, if a school has a very large student population and an applicant's credentials (GPAs, test scores, etc.) are in the 75th percentile, or above, the school can be considered 'a safety'. Also, smaller schools that do not fall into the category of 'prestigious' where the applicant's credentials fall above the 75th percentile might be considered a safety. However, a 'safety' is not always a sure thing. That is why a student should apply to more than one.</p>

<p>I think the OP here is using the word 'safety' in the above context. From the post, it appears that the 'safety' she refers to is also a 'good fit'.</p>