<p>Seems to me the main thing missing from this thread is the Reality that for many, many families this is just a pointless debate. </p>
<p>Let's face it: The rich are getting richer - and they will continue to get into and go to Ivy League schools. Some of them are truly stellar people who have worked very hard to be able to afford that. Others are simply lucky. Many are kids who are truly amazing students; many others are just born into the "right" families.</p>
<p>For everybody in between very rich and quite poor, there is the option of crippling debt or working hard and using merit money. So what else is new? Welcome to America. We all leverage what we can.</p>
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I think people fool themselves badly thinking that major scholarships at good schools are just there for their Ivy accepted kids to pluck off the tree at any merit aid granting school.
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<p>This must be the same money tree my kids think grows in our backyard. I just give it a good shake every morning.</p>
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Take it from an old smartypants, the world is full of people who are amazing, interesting and had low SAT scores.
<p>College is no exception from the decisioning process we continue to go through - career, house, relationships, etc. It is a big decision and a tough one. D has a $14K per year scholarship offer from U of Portland, but still has some interest in a few east coast schools that would cost as much as $43K per year. That's about $92K over 4 years, which would pretty much pay for law school if she decides to go that route (considering seriously). She liked U of P, too. There are a few other schools that might be a better fit, but might be closer in cost. I tend to think the $92K is a lot more valuable than saying 'I went to Williams (or wherever)'. Maybe an Ivy would carry a lot of 'cache', but seems to me getting a good education and maybe spending for that Ivy pedigree in grad or professional school would be the best route. All that said, I won't kid you - this will be a tough decision for her and for us as parents.</p>
<p>Actually, I'm right. There's something called the Mizzou Mafia when it comes to journalism - their grads are literally everywhere there is major journalism, and connections and alumni network will get you everywhere in journalism. I realize UMissouri isn't considered a "name" by most undergrads or people that don't know the business, but Mizzou for journalism is literally like Harvard for everything else. My sister just graduated from Mizzou for journalism (which she chose over other more highly ranked schools specifically because of their rep), and before she even graduated she was offered (unsolicited) 2 jobs - a regular job and a freelancing job.</p>
<p>The fact that Harvard DOESN'T have a j-school means that it would be more disadvantaged in journalism. Why on earth would anyone think they can get into journalism without a journalism degree - regardless of the name of your school? Now, if the OP is definitely planning on journalism and definitely planning on grad school, that's another story. The OP could go to Mizzou or Northwestern for journalism grad school. But in journalism, grad school isn't necessary if you come out of a terrific j-school for undergrad.</p>
<p>Seems to me it is a matter of priorities. It's about so much more than the money. Is it worth the sacrifice?</p>
<p>This is a question to which we've repeatedly answered yes when sending our kids to Catholic elementary and high schools, despite living in a top-notch school district where the education is free (or, put more aptly, subsidized by everybody else). It means that much to us and our kids.</p>
<p>Let's face it, the very wealthy aren't worried about it. The very needy are going to get the aid. With the middle class, where so many of us lie, it isn't as if it is a choice between food, housing and the basic necessities of life versus the price tag of a given educational experience. It is a choice between a late model car and a 1995 Astro Van; between the nice vacation and the camping trip; between the new construction home or making due with the one we have. </p>
<p>Depends on what your wants and needs are.</p>
<p>There are some on this forum that sound almost bitter about the fact that there are those, like ourselves, who are willing to let our kids bypass the full rides to experience something they truly want and will give them an unparalleled experience. We're not talking about a label sewn on the back of your jeans or the status emblem of a hood ornament here. We are talking about a life experience. While I fully understand that many people choose to go with the life experience that costs less, and that is their business, I think it way oversimplifies things to make it appear as if those who opt for the reach school are doing so because they are somehow being duped by the prestige factor.</p>
<p>I am amazed at how many people are stunned that we would take on the financial burden of sending our daughter to Notre Dame when other schools would have paid full freight, as if she is somehow being spoiled or the decision is frivolous. I don't judge their decisions. Why should they judge mine?</p>
<p>(The word meaning an aura of fashion and prestige is cachet. Without an accent over the e, cache is pronounced "cash" and means a stored supply of something. With the accent, it's pronounced the same way as cachet, but it means "hidden", and it's not used in standard English.)</p>
<p>(Not to pick on corunnerdad. This is the third time I've seen someone spell "cachet" cache in the last 24 hours.)</p>
<p>This illustrates my point. Harvard's costs run what? $45,000 a year? That leaves between $55,000 to $105,000, using these figures, to live and raise one child. Such a household might want financial aid--who wouldn't? But to say they somehow <em>need</em> it at that income level is stretching matters.</p>
<p>Curmudgeon, I'm not commenting about the general world of college financing or making sweeping statements about all college applicants. I'm commenting about my own daughter's situation, which is what it is... We know what other schools are offering. Don't read more into my statement than I've made...</p>
<p>ddjones - I have to disagree about those who make 100-150K, especially if they live in a high cost area. After taxes, retirement savings, housing costs in a high cost metro area, many of these folks most certainly DO NOT have $45,000 per year to spend at will. We're not talking mansions, BMWs and fancy vacations here. Maybe in Idaho on that income...but not here. No sympathy of course,, but let's get real....</p>
<p>dd: I don't think you are being judged for the decision to send d to ND. (Frankly, it's perhaps the only place I'd be willing to shell out the full cost for my kids to attend.) I think the statement about you d's safety school "likely" giving her a full ride is what was being judged. Newcomers like myself might get our hopes up that there are tons of fmerit full-rides out there. The veterans on CC say no. It's an important point to clarify: Big difference between likely and a solid offer.</p>
<p>Edit: Cross-posted. Just saw that the offers were solid, & I really wish you'd post them to give ideas to those still figuring this all out. Really, not judging your decision at all. Just trying to absorb as much info as possible.</p>
<p>Corunnerdad,
$43,000-$14,000=$29,000 x 4 years = $116,000 instead of $92K difference between U of Portland & some of the East Coast schools your child is considering. Please remember to add in transportation costs, as it is more expensive booking fares from OR to the east coast & back if your child wants to get home than catching a ride/bus/train or having the folks drop off & pick up.</p>
<p>Merit aid is pretty unpredictable. There are still quite a few schools that guarantee merit aid to NMFs and a few other students with similar credentials, but for the most part it's tough to predict. My S received merit-only aid at several fine Us because he was a NMF and was accepted at one U with no scholarship. If he hadn't been a NMF, I don't believe he would have received such generous awards.</p>
<p>His cousin who was a NM commended student & had better grades was accepted by many of the same schools but with NO merit awards by any of the Us. She matriculated at Notre Dame, where her folks are paying all out-of-pocket. Neither cousin nor S qualify for any need-based aid.</p>
<p>Toneranger, I don't believe any of us feels we have $45K-50K/year "lying around" to pay for our kids schooling. It's just that the FAFSA & Profile calculators have told many of us that our expected family contribution is well over the cost of attendance at our kids' chosen schools. It certainly doesn't mean that paying for college expenses will be easy or that it can be done out of income--often loans are required. The cost of living in HI & many other places is high, but that is not calculated into the FAFSA & Profile calculators that are used to determined whether a family qualifies for need-based financial aid. It is useful for families to try using some of the financial aid calculators to get a realistic idea of whether their family would or would not qualify for need-based aid at all. It's also important to remember that LOANS are considered to be meeting student's need by many schools. This is still money that needs to be repaid by the student and/or family. I borrowed several financial aid books from our local library & soon determined that our family would never qualify for need-based aid. I shared this info with our kids & HS college counselor & had S always be sure to include schools known for generous merit aid for kids with his stats in his college search. We are glad that things worked out because we find it challenging coming up with the balance of the cost of S's attendance at his U, even with the generous merit awards he received as a NMF. We are still glad he's at the school he chose rather than one of the two who had offered him a full-ride, which honestly were NOT good fits for him.</p>
<p>Desp, when I was deciding where to go to college and what to study, I was lucky enough to sit down with editors from the NYT and WSJ. I also spoke to a producer at ABC News. All told me the same thing, go to an ivy, not a journalism school. One is a trade program, the other a broad education which is what top news organizations want and you make contact with future politicians and business leaders, not just fellow journalists. Made sense to me.</p>
<p>UMizzou isn't a broad education, but a trade school? That's hogwash. That's typical elite-school-is-better crap. The same broad requirements are at Mizzou as at any other university. Yes, j-school students have to do an internship each summer. That's what makes it a good school. Almost every single writer for any newspaper, magazine, etc. went to j-school. So what you are saying is highly dubious.</p>
<p>Regardless, the OP never said she wanted to be a journalist.</p>
<p>Within a decade of our graduation from Yale, people whom I just happened to know had regular reporting jobs at The New York Times, The Washington Post, The Wall St. Journal, Time, and The Philadelphia Inquirer, and were producers for Nightline and The NBC Evening News. None of them went to journalism school; none of them had previous connections, either. One of them had won a Pulitzer. Another would win a MacArthur in a few years. A friend at Harvard, who had no involvement in journalism as an undergraduate, had gotten a full-ride fellowship to Columbia School of Journalism and was Fortune's reporter in Japan. (Not to mention Chris Buckley, who probably didn't need Yale to have a nifty career, or Stone Phillips, whom I didn't know. Then there are people a little older than I, like Bob Woodward, Ron Rosenbaum, and Strobe Talbot, who had pretty nice careers right out of the box, too.)</p>
<p>I know a few people from Mizzou as well, and they have done fine, but nothing like the careers of the people I mentioned, especially in the early years. I wouldn't argue that Mizzou doesn't have a great journalism program that delivers real value to its graduates. But, cost aside, I don't think it offers better opportunities than Harvard or Yale do.</p>
<p>I started the journalism tangent here by addressing a poster who, in other threads, had shown a real interest in journalism.</p>
<p>This is off topic, but are you kidding that almost every journalist went to J school? That's just totally untrue. And why are elite schools elite? Because the offer superior educations? That goes for elite state schools too, of which Mizzou is not one. Maybe the magazine will hire a fact checker because of their Mizzou education, but for an editorial writer they'll go with the elite education.</p>
<p>And JHS, let's add Christiane Ammanpour (sp?) who roomed with JFK at Brown. Talk about your contacts!</p>
<p>We'll have to agree to disagree on this - but I'd still like to point out my original post, which said that the OP never said she wanted to be a journalist; in fact, she specifically said she wasn't at all sure what she wanted to do.</p>
<p>HiMom - I agree with everything you said about the financial side of college decisions. (I was responding to DDjones - who said those who made 100K would have plenty $ left to live on after paying for education that year - give me a break). My son was also an NMF. We did NOT qualify for financial aid and live in a very high cost area. My son was not at all interested in some of the full tuition offers (Arizona, USF) and we did not press him. He did however get scholarships at his quality State U that pay for close to 2/3 of the costs. He chose this option over some better ranked and more expensive privates - and we are saving money for him for grad school. He's very happy as a freshman. Everyone makes different choices. Since our son did so well in high school, some think we are cheap, others think it's great that his hard work paid off with a easier path to grad school. We're just glad he's happy.</p>
<p>Ultimately, yes, all we want is for our kids to be "happy." Some kids are happier at a wider range of places than others & can excell no matter where they are "planted." It's important for each of us to be realistic & "know our kid."<br>
When I was growing up, I had lots of sibblings & our family could not afford (& did not consider) sending us to anywhere other than the local public schools, followed by the local public flagship U. This worked OK for us & we tried the same thing for our kids. Since we have a much smaller family, we have been able to adjust & find our kids better "fits" when the publics weren't meeting our kids' needs. Of course, I wish that my kids were able to thrive in the publics as I & my sibs did, but we are realists & have adapted. Some of my kids' friends have matriculated at the local flagship U & are saving lots of $$$ that can be used toward grad/pro school or other expenses, but each family has to know their kid & figure things the best possible.</p>