Sample Lessons

College Majors Music Major
1

<p>So as things finally start to take shape, my son has sample lesson set up at multiple schools (LACs, universites and conservatories). The question I have, is what should he be expecting on these sample lessons. Should he come prepared to work on a certain aspect of his playing, or just let the teacher decide what would be neat to work on? How do the teachers usually view and approach these lessons?</p>

<p>I'd just like to get a feel for what he should be ready for so he's not totally caught off guard in this situation.</p>

<p>Thanks!
David.</p>

2

<p>From our experience he should be prepared for just about anything...from very brief almost audition-like "lesson", to a chance to show what he's been working on, to an opportunity to sight-read a duet with the teacher. Bring both methods books (scales, etudes, etc) and most recent pieces and "go with the flow". Also bring your checkbook. Most, but not all, teachers will expect to be paid. I expectg there will be a fair amount of conversation as well. Good luck!</p>

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<p>I agree with all that nycm said. (All but one of S's teachers charged for the lesson. None of D's have.) Among the music he brings, it would help to have something that he has worked on for awhile; maybe not a finished piece, but one he has a pretty good grasp of. Because, you don't really want to do your worst playing at this time. :) But neither is it an audition, where you are expected to be flawless. </p>

<p>Most of the time, the teacher asked my kid what he/she wanted to play, and they chose a piece as I just described. In my D's case, since it was just a few months before auditions (last fall), she played a piece she was learning for auditions. It was real eye-opening to hear how different teachers approached it, and to hear what they wanted out of it. With my S, teachers often flipped through his etudes and picked something for him to play - it may or may not have been one he'd played before. In each case, we really did want the teacher to actually teach, so kid would get a feel for teaching style.</p>

<p>Hope your experiences go well!</p>

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<p>just an added note: remember that these are not auditions, and also keep in mind that this is also your son's chance to "audition" the teachers in a sense. He will probably end up with some he loves and some he would rather not study with for the next four years.</p>

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<p>Thanks for the advice thus far. What I should have added is: These are drumset lessons, therefore, there aren't really any prepared etudes or anything...</p>

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<p>DD, I sent you a PM. Check the top right corner of your screen to click on it!</p>

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<p>What we (my daughter and I) wonder about is: how people choose the professors for those sample lessons? When my D looks at the music departments at the universities' web-sites or at piano departments of conservories' web-sites - there are, usually, about a dozen of names we know nothing about. We then have no idea, whom to choose (except, sometimes, when we see Russian names, we are tempted to choose them something we are more familiar and comfortable with ;-)).</p>

<p>Where could we find any information on the quallity or styles of different profs at the different schools?</p>

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<p>What instrument, myau? (Is that pronounced meow?) And what does she want to do with it?</p>

<p>I've been through the process with S, and now it's very different for D. S was performance only, and knew what he wanted a long time ago, so he had lots of camps, clinics, competitions, etc. where he was able to meet various teachers and professionals and get lots of opinions. "Oh, you should go here and study with so and so." "Don't go there; great music dept except for your instrument." And so on. So when he started looking seriously at schools, he took the recommendations he already had, ran them past his private teacher, and collected a few more. Sometimes, when just a school was recommended, he was able to ask around to find out what teachers might be more appropriate for him. </p>

<p>I think this personal info from people who know your D and know the teachers is really the best. If your D has a private teacher, then run some names past him/her. Perhaps he's at least heard of some of them. Ideally, he will know something about the teacher as a performer, as well as a teacher. Being good at one doesn't guarantee any skill with the other.</p>

<p>My D's situation has been much more casual and "accidental." She has sorta backed into becoming a music major. Who the teacher is matters less to her because she's doing this "for fun." She initially intended to only minor, (or even less - ensembles and lessons only). However, we started visiting the schools that interested her, knowing nothing about the music teacher or dept., and stopping by to visit. We've been going in cold. Along the way, teachers began encouraging her to double major. So she's now all over the board -- everything from participating only (1 or 2 schools) to music minor (1 or 2) to double major with BA (2 schools) to double major with performance (1 school.) I think she's been surprised by the variety of teachers at the college level. She's had high level teachers for the past 7 years or so, and some of the schools we visited were definitely a step down. For this reason alone, I'm glad she had the sample lessons.</p>

<p>So her sample lessons had more to do with "if I got scholarship money for music, could I stand studying here?" A little different criteria.</p>

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<p>binx, my D's situation looks more like your D's. :-) She plays piano and violin (with more emphasize on piano) from the very young age and so far, doesn't have much of an idea what she wants to do with that. She is only sure that she doesn't want to stop it after graduating from HS. Her wishes go back and forth from minoring to double-majoring in music to, as you said, ensembles and lessons only.</p>

<p>She is very musical - very "trained" ear, perfect pitch, very good at sight reading, theory and in any emsemble playing (being a student of 70%+ asian h/s with hundreds of great and ambitious musicians, she eventually happened to become one of the most valuable accompanists there - for choirs, musicals, soloists, small groups etc.). But her technical abilities is another story; they vary, depending on the time she has to practice, left after all the schoolwork ... because nobody ever considered music career for her seriously, untill recently it appeared that she is interested in it more than in anything else. </p>

<p>What instruments do your children play?</p>

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<p>We had the same experience as Binx. For DS (the performance student), the lessons were extremely important as he knew he would be spending a considerable amount of time over four years with that teacher. We got the names by talking to people. It was interesting to see the names that kept coming up over and over. Those were the folks DS set up lessons with. With DD, lessons were to get a feel for the teacher. She is not a music major. We didn't research teachers but DD did want to get a feeling for the teachers at the schools to which she was applying. Both kiddos offered to pay for the lessons in all cases. DS paid for one undergrad lesson only. No charge for the others. DD didn't pay at all. Now...for grad schools, DS has paid for half of his "sample lessons". Re: what to take...DS had his solo books, etude books, and orchestral excerpts. The teachers all had a different way of structuring the lessons and that was one of the things DS was looking at. I would imagine for drumset lessons, you would do the same...take the materials you would normally work on in a lesson. My guess is you would work on technique, and reading something from music. Both of my kids had resumes and repertoire sheets with them to give to the teachers as well...and they all took them and thanked the kiddos.</p>

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<p>Hello Myau, it sounds as though you daughter hasn't really got her heart set on conservatory experience yet, but there will be a major difference (excuse the pun) between being a piano major or a violin major and very few conservatory students do both (perhaps none?). If she is looking at liberal arts schools with strong music programs, then I suggest contacting the orchestra conductor and asking if she can meet and play for him/her, rather than contacting the teachers first.</p>

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<p>nycm - that's a very good idea about contacting the conductor - I never would have thought of that! At Allegheny, the conductor is also the violin teacher. I wonder at how many smaller schools something like that might be true?</p>

<p>Myau - what else does your D want to study? I'd be happy to share with you the schools my D looked at, and her impressions. Her other focus is languages, so we looked for schools that were strong in that. We also wanted schools that would allow her some variety, since she is really undecided. To answer your question - my S is a performance major in horn at a conservatory. My D plays violin (since age 6). S also plays piano and composes. Even though he is allowed only one major, he has been allowed to take composition for non-majors at school. D has only had a couple years of piano. </p>

<p>I will throw one school out there, if you haven't already looked at it: Indiana U (Bloomington.) They have an excellent collaborative piano (accompanying) program, along with the opportunity to double major. D looked at it but did not apply - because she didn't think she was good enough for the conservatory level playing. In hindsight, given the response of other teachers, I wish we hadn't made that assumption. (I think we made the mistake of comparing her with her brother, who has unusual ability.) The campus is absolutely beautiful, and they have an extensive list of majors -- the best language program of any we considered.</p>

<p>As far as technical ability, don't worry too much. My S didn't want to give up piano at school, but tested out of the piano for non-majors courses. So he took a non-credit "remedial" class for majors. He was the best in the class, and dropped it after a semester. It amazed him that there were piano majors good enough to get into Juilliard who couldn't sight read or count or know much theory.</p>

<p>Edit: One more thing I thought of: For D, when we were considering colleges, we found it very helpful to read the bios of the teachers. It helped her know something of what to expect, and often gave her something to talk about. The violin teacher at Miami, for example, studied at the Mozarteum - which is where her previous teacher (in Germany) studied. The teacher at Allegheny is from my home town. The teacher at Denison went to our local state U - UGA, and we knew people and places in common. The teacher at Furman used to teach at UGA, and was the Denison teacher's teacher! And so on.</p>

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<p>DD, the one who is not majoring in music, actually contacted the head of the music department at all the schools to which she was applying. That person put her in touch with various people...oboe teacher (that's her instrument), orchestra director, music admissions person (at the one large school they had one of those and she was VERY good and helpful). DD had some lively email correspondences with orchestra directors mostly centered around if they needed an oboe player and if she could play as a non-major. She did not meet the orchestra director where she is now attending college until she got there...but did have many many correspondences with her. DD did meet the head of the department and had an interview with him, and had a sample lesson with the teacher. At another school, the orchestra director invited her to play with the orchestra on a visit. So...it will vary. </p>

<p>And agreed with Binx. DS is NOT a great pianist by any measure or means. However, he too placed out of some of the required piano courses in his program, but took one semester of piano because he felt it was a good idea to do so. He was surprised that many of the musicians had not studied piano at all and that their theory knowledge was limited.</p>

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<p>Myau: from your posts, I see that you live in California and are interested in the UC's. From your description of your daugher's interests, I would suggest that you look at UC Berkeley very seriously -- they have fantastic language departments, including one of the best slavic language departments in the country; their music department includes Richard Taruskin, a Stravinsky specialist and there have been many programs about Russian music at Cal. Although there is not a performance degree, there are lots of opportunities for performance -- a very good symphony, a great chorus, and lots of solo and ensemble piano opportunities. The coaches are first-rate, many from SF Conservatory. There are many private teachers in the area, including from the SF Conservatory, with whom your daughter could take lessons, which are subsidized (slightly) by the music department for majors. There are plenty of practice rooms, and they are free. Some people your daughter could contact are David Milnes (orchestra), Marika Kuzma (chorus), and Karen Rosenak (piano).</p>

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<p>Thank you, mamenyu. Of course, Berkeley is already included in her college-list. But, so far, we had not been sure, does it really make sense to go for UC's sample lessons beforehand - especially, if it's the campus she would be definitely applying to, anyway (for financial and geographical reasons :-)). Do the music (or any ;-)) faculty who have some contacts (sample lesson or interview) with the applicant have any say in the the admission proccess/decision (as, I heard, they do at private colleges)?</p>

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<p>binx,</p>

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<p>Thanks, it would be great help. My D made some of her own search of schools (and me, too, of course ;-)), but so far her list is too "raw" and eclectic (so many completely different schools for very different reasons!)</p>

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<p>Wow, that's again applies to my D as well. She is especially interested in Romance and Slavic languages, and also, having pretty much analitical mind, she might be interested in the strong linguistic program. While trying to think up the ways to tie her musical and linguistic interests together, cognitive science also come to mind (although we dont' have much of idea what exactly it is and what to do with it ;-)).</p>

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<p>Exactly our case. :-)</p>

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<p>Have you visited there? How did you like the atmosphere? The "Princetone Review" put it into "party schools" list (the "red flag" for my D ;-))... does it really feel like it?</p>

<p>Thank you for your replies.</p>

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<p>Myau, here's our experience, for what it's worth.</p>

<p>We visited Indiana in the summer, so I couldn't tell about it being a party school. It is an absolutely beautiful campus. D didn't apply because she didn't feel she would get much playing opportunity in orchestras, due to the conservatory-type program. But I think it would be different for your D with piano. And part of me feels like D should have applied anyway! At the time she was deciding, she didn't want to major in music. Since then, she has decided to double major, and Indiana offers a BA in music along with their performance degree, so a double major is do-able. And their language program is one of the most extensive we've found.</p>

<p>Schools with linguistics as an undergraduate program that D applied to include Miami-Ohio, Emory, and St. Olaf. They are 3 completely different types of schools, but D looked only at majors plus music. Each has plusses and minuses:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Emory. D loves this school. It is very easy to double major here. The "college within the university" program really gives you an LAC feel with the resources of a university. It is close to us, has a beautiful campus, and great reputation. On the negatives, it's hard to get into, expensive, and (for us) rather liberal. I don't know anything about the piano program. They have a beautiful new organ, and seem to have a pretty strong music program all around. D auditioned yesterday; we'll see what happens.</p></li>
<li><p>Miami-Ohio. We added this school after D visited Emory last fall, and we realized that all the other schools on her list were LACs, and there was a certain appeal to a larger school. Miami's focus is on undergrads - very small graduate school. Beautiful campus. Possible to double major. D has auditioned and been accepted - we are waiting to see money. Downside is the party reputation, and the "public school persona" - not as academic as other schools on her list. Hopefully she will be accepted to one of their honors programs, which would give her some extra academic challenges.</p></li>
<li><p>St Olaf. We actually haven't visited, but D has loved this school for the ways it fits her: Scandinavian, environmentally friendly, language offerings, great music school. She has also been accepted here with money, and is auditioning for music scholarship as well. The school is Lutheran, which we are not, but I don't believe they are in any way in your face about religion. Downside is the Minnesota location! But D is willing.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>Schools she's applied to without linguistics:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Allegheny. (Admitted with money.) Music program is weak, but growing. The piano professor is a Juilliard grad - very nice man we met while we were there. Languages are limited. D would probably study International Relations here, with a music minor.</p></li>
<li><p>Denison. (still waiting.) Limited languages, great violin teacher. </p></li>
<li><p>Furman. (still waiting.) Double major possible. "Sincere" music program. No idea about piano. Quite good in languages. Most conservative school on her list. Park-like campus. </p></li>
</ol>

<p>At Denison and Furman, there is a create-your-own-major option that she might look at. She doesn't want to specifically major in a single language, but would rather study "languages" - and considers music one of those languages. Something like international relations or cultural studies that would allow to study different languages. She is fluent in German, has had a couple years of Spanish, and a year each of Chinese and Ancient Greek. She's like to study Chinese more, and maybe Russian. Or Swedish. Or....</p>

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<p>Hi, all. Wondering what the etiquette is for sampling more than one teacher at a school. DS's case is 2 teachers at a school where he is accepted. He listed both on his application and liked both, but is not sure if either knows about the other. Should he have told them?</p>

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<p>Mommybird, no, I don't think this is unusual. At Juilliard, when a student auditions, each teacher is asked to indicate if he/she would be willing to teach this student if accepted into the school. Then the student is assigned a teacher based on (no particular order of importance: ) 1. The teacher's response 2. The student's choice and 3. Room in the teacher's studio.</p>

<p>The teachers never see that part of the application, and don't know if they were first choice, last choice, not even named... All they know is the list of kids that are assigned to their studio.</p>

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<p>Thanx, Binx. We were a little worried.</p>