<p>Hi, I'm interested in appling for San Francisco Conservatory Of Music as a transfer for BM-piano and I was wondering if this conservatory is a good place for piano majors. Also how hard is it to get in? Is it easier or harder than USC Thornton School of Music?</p>
<p>SF Conservatory has a strong piano faculty. It also has a nice new building, located in civic center, near transportation. I'd guess it is easier to get into than Thornton; it has less money for scholarships than USC.</p>
<p>Housing is not provided at San Francisco Conservatory, but I understand they do maintain a good list of available, recommended spots for students. I also believe that they host a roomate matching exchange board as well. Can't speak to the piano program or competitiveness vs Thorton.</p>
<p>Although as Mamenyu says, the faculty is strong, the students are quite variable, frankly...My understanding is the Thornton is more competitive.</p>
<p>The experience at these two conservatories would be entirely different. USC Thornton bigger, in LA, part of a large university; SF Conservatory is small, in downtown SF near no other colleges. The new building is attractive, but the immediate area is sketchy, though it is a couple of blocks from Davies Hall, where the SF Symphony is located. There isn't much suitable housing in that area, so students don't live nearby. On the other hand, though the range of talent is greater at SF Conservatory, several SF Conservatory pianists have gone on to masters programs at Juilliard and other top programs.</p>
<p>Jenny,</p>
<p>you may wish to have a look at the <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/817953-master-list-acceptances-fall-2010-a-60.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/817953-master-list-acceptances-fall-2010-a-60.html</a> where I am about to add your information to find others who have been accepted at those schools. You can then send private messages (PMs) to them to ask their opinion if they do not respond here.</p>
<p>Jenny1201, congratulations.</p>
<p>A few SF Conservatory past titled threads:
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/409306-san-francisco-conservatory.html?highlight=San+Francisco+Conservatory[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/409306-san-francisco-conservatory.html?highlight=San+Francisco+Conservatory</a>
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/457157-san-francisco-conservatory-audition-experience.html?highlight=San+Francisco+Conservatory[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/457157-san-francisco-conservatory-audition-experience.html?highlight=San+Francisco+Conservatory</a></p>
<p>And some general Thornton info:
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/281602-how-good-thornton-school-music.html?highlight=Thornton[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/281602-how-good-thornton-school-music.html?highlight=Thornton</a>
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/558178-music-school-visits-6.html#post1061183145[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/558178-music-school-visits-6.html#post1061183145</a> posts #'s 85 & 88.</p>
<p>There are only two violin acceptances at SF Conservatory on this year’s master and both are for undergrad. There are none for violin at USC/Thornton. <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/1064626343-post900.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/1064626343-post900.html</a></p>
<p>The '09 Master <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/1063231420-post872.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/1063231420-post872.html</a> shows opera-mom has a daughter at SF Con for BM vocal performance, you may wish to pm her for general school and area info.</p>
<p>The '08 Master shows nothing for either.</p>
<p>I’m assuming that you chose these two based on reputation of specific faculty. As you said you have yet to visit, do you know whose studio you will be in at both? Are you comfortable working with these options? </p>
<p>There is an extremely active instrument specific forum here [Violin</a> Discussion Board: All Topics](<a href=“http://www.violinist.com/discussion/]Violin”>Violinist.com Discussion Forum) where you may be able to obtain additional insights beyond what is available here.</p>
<p>Good luck.</p>
<p>Hey Jenny! I was also accepted to SFCM this year for violin (undergrad though), and I will be attending in the fall. I don’t know much about USC Thornton, but as violadad said, it really comes down to who you would be studying with- have you met either teachers? Who do you prefer? I have heard really wonderful things about all of the teachers at SFCM, and I will be studying with Bettina Mussumeli. I’m not familiar with the USC faculty; I only know of Midori and Robert Lipsett, but I’m sure there are other teachers there that are very good as well. </p>
<p>USC and SFCM are very different environments, which is something to take into account. USC is a large university with a music program, while SFCM is a VERY small conservatory (about 400 students, undergrad and grad). It’s a commuter campus, so everyone lives off-campus. They have a relatively new partnership with Golden Gate Hall, which is a 3-5 minute walk from the school. The conservatory also moved locations in the past few years, and I think the new building/facilities are very nice.</p>
<p>I would definitely PM opera-mom, by the way. She gave me a very good idea of what to expect at SFCM. </p>
<p>Good luck choosing between two great schools!</p>
<p>I missed raddad as a potential contact for USC/Thornton. His son is in the Popular Music program, and may not have the insight’s into the classical or MM aspects, but could be a valuable source of school and area specific info. </p>
<p>You can search for past posts by user name, and can try a pm as well.</p>
<p>I think most of Lipsett’s students are at Colburn, so check that out as part of your investigation.
There is some fine violin faculty at SFCM - Axel Strauss and Wei He are also worth checking out.
But they really are very different places. USC is a big university - lots of sports teams, lots of school spirit. It is in a not-so-great part of Los Angeles, but seems to be safe enough. SFCM is in a new building, and the location is convenient to the Symphony, but it is hardly bucolic - no grass, lots of homeless folks, but near some fun restaurants and shops. It is a far cry from USC - just that one building - a much much smaller environment.</p>
<p>As a Californian, I agree with the posts here about the environments of both schools. </p>
<p>I can’t speak to specific faculty. Understand there is (or was) an excellent piano teacher at SFCM but can’t recall his name.</p>
<p>Had a little interaction with SFCM at one point and found them to be professional and courteous. </p>
<p>You might phone either/both schools and ask if any current students (on your instrument) may be contacted to answer some of your questions.</p>
<p>At SFCM, Ian Swensen is also a very highly regarded instructor. He is younger than most of the biggest names in the violin-teaching business and therefore not as well-known, but some say he is up there at the top with the likes of Weilerstein, Kantor, Fried, and Winkler. </p>
<p>Because the environments are so different, consider what you would prefer: the small downtown school where everyone knows everyone and everyone is immersed in music all day, or the much larger school in which it is easier to escape from music because of all the non-music people and non-music opportunities. I do not mean to imply that either is better. Both could work for you depending on your personality.</p>
<p>Any thoughts/insights on the cello staff:</p>
<p>Jennifer Culp
Jean-Michel Fonteneau</p>
<p>Generally agree with what has been said above. I would say that some USC positives are the exceptional opportunities for classical musicians in addition to the outstanding classical ensembles to participate with Jazz and Popular Music Performance musicians in bands or performances if you are so inclined and also opportunities to work with theatre and film/tv majors on projects. Also, the entertainment industry is in LA and while every large city has good opportunities, LA is rivaled only by NY I suspect in the US for entertainment opportunities and industry people. </p>
<p>I will disagree a little with violindads thought that the music majors at USC aren’t immersed in music all day. Within the classical program at Thornton, everyone will pretty much know everyone else (my guess 350 people undergrad). There are general requirements etc for a degree at USC but I think with all of the different bands/groups he performs with my son is doing music classes, playing or rehearsing 10+ hours a day including weekends. He has dorm friends who aren’t musicians but as the year has gone on, more involvement in music has meant a lot more immersion with his music friends and he is living in a house with six other music majors next year. It is a little more varied than a conservatory, but not as much as you might think. That is only my perspective with my son, but is true for many if not most in his program.</p>
<p>Lastly, one thing that doesn’t affect my son but impressed me when hearing the Dean of Thornton talk is that they don’t have tryouts and establish orchestras and roles in orchestras and then leave it for the year. They move you around with different conductors and different roles in differnt orchestras/ensembles (at least once each semester and I think more) because the intent is to teach/develop and if you are always playing this chair in this level orchestra then you really aren’t being developed. I liked that they had consciously thought about that from a teaching and development standpoint and could articulate it. It makes sense to me from a lot of standpoints, not least teamwork and improved group dynamic. </p>
<p>You have two great choices. Best wishes and if you think I could be of help feel free to PM me.</p>
<p>raddad: I don’t think we disagree at all. I didn’t mean to imply as you inferred “that the music majors at USC aren’t immersed in music all day.” At any school there will be students who focus to larger or lesser degrees on their major. A high or low degree of focus on one’s major can be a healthy or unhealthy thing. At a music conservatory which is unattached to any other institution and is not in close physical proximity to non-music schools, it is very natural for a high percentage of the students to spend a very high percentage of the time doing, talking (eating, and sleeping) music. It is easier to get away from the music in a very large institution like USC where the vast majority of the people and courses are not all about music. Getting away from the music might be good or bad.</p>
<p>Certainly USC has enough music opportunities that one can immerse oneself in music there (as one can at almost any decent music school if one so chooses), but USC also has an abundance of non-music opportunities that allow one to take a break from the music. Just so no one reads too much into that statement: the city of San Francisco has plenty of non-music opportunities: so SFCM students can get away from the music.<br>
The natural tendency of any music student at a music school is to get drawn into the music world. Some love this and thrive on this and therefore have wonderful experiences. Some students work better and are happier if they have breaks from the music world and at some schools like USC it takes much less work and effort to find stimulating people and activities that are not centred around music. </p>
<p>As well, we all know that even at the largest institutions, there can be subgroups and communities in which everyone knows everyone (e.g. the students within one’s studio; all the trumpet majors; all the brass majors; the whole music school; one’s floor in residence), but at a big institution, there will invariably be people one doesn’t know, and most college-aged students like this: they enjoy meeting new people and always having a sense of social opportunity awaiting. While some students might find security in knowing and being known, others find it cloying. </p>
<p>SFCM has under 400 students (combined undergrad and grad). Thornton has 1072 students (undergraduate students: 627; graduate students: 445). These figures are from each school’s website as of today. Thornton is in the heart of the USC campus and USC has over 33 000 students. </p>
<p>I do think that most people will find the atmospheres quite different. One builds one’s own experience at any school and that partly is why two people in the same studio in the same school can have radically different experiences (one loves the place and the other loathes it). One needs to have some degree of self-awareness to determine what will work best.</p>
<p>I’ve been to both SF and LA. Its really different. SF is full of hills, colder, and less sunny. It feels actually a bit gloomy. It is also extremely liberal. LA has a lot of opportunities as well… music in LA is perhaps stronger. Many regional auditoins are held in LA.</p>
<p>Violindad, I agree with everything you said above. In fact I wish I was that articulate. I misunderstood a part of your previous post.</p>
<p>I don’t think the differences between the weather in SF or LA, or whether SF is “liberal” are really the point here, or that generalities contrasting the two cities are helpful. Though here are some more, for good measure: USC is in a smoggy part of LA and LA can be over 100 degrees in September - some people hate that; SFCM is in a temperate part of SF that is not gloomy, though neither area is what I would call upscale. SF is a beautiful city - a favorite of European visitors; LA is very spread out and you need a car to get anywhere. And LA has lots of liberals! Take a look at the mayors of both cities: both very liberal. That will have no impact on music studies!
Both LA and SF have great music scenes for classical music; LA has a lot more ties to Hollywood and the entertainment industry.
The big difference between these schools is that Thornton is part of USC, which is a large and wealthy university. Thornton is itself larger and more diverse in its offerings. The level of talent is probably clustered higher at Thornton though there are also talented students at SFCM, and in its new location, and with some very strong new faculty, it sees itself as a rising conservatory.</p>