My kids took the ACT in 6th grade through a gifted and talented program. It is offered across the country through several programs and gives them access to fantastic summer programs (Duke is one school that offers this). When they receive their scores they are ranked with scores of other kids their age/grade, so they are not expected to do as well as high schoolers. We originally thought that taking it in 6th grade would help our kids set some goals to achieve in future years for getting accepted into colleges when they saw how difficult the test was. However, they scored in the high 20s in 6th grade and immediately saw that it was good enough for many colleges. By 8th grade they had scored high enough for most, so that definitely relieved stress. The kids knew that scores from that age did not matter at all so it really was just a practice, just at a very young age.
My kids took the SATs in 7th and 8th grade as part of the Johns Hopkins Center for Talented Youth Talent Search. They didn’t study. It wasn’t stressful. It was one Saturday morning. It really was a positive experience. It gave a sense of what would be coming in high school and going to college. But more importantly, achieving a good score allowed them to be selected as “winners” and there was a very nice state-wide ceremony with reps from Johns Hopkins University to recognize all the winners in our state that my kids got to attend. It is nice to be recognized for academic achievement and not just for extracurricular type awards. Further, by scoring above a certain threshold on the SATs as 7th and 8th graders, it allowed them to qualify to take long distances courses through JHU/CTY, which both kids did at some point…taking college level courses as part of meeting their academic needs and acceleration, etc. So, taking the SATs in junior high school wasn’t stressful and it was a win-win for my kids.
Personally, I hate that the kids have to take the SATs or ACTs for college admissions. I think one’s school record is a better indicator of achievement and how one might fare in college. Nonetheless, they are a necessary “evil” aspect of college admissions to most colleges. I don’t believe in stressing over them. However, I don’t believe in leaving it all to chance either. A student puts in four years to obtain their GPA/grades. I think some practice to prep to take the SAT or ACT is worth the effort. I don’t think prep courses are that useful for most kids. My kids never took any. Also, our high school didn’t do anything to prep for these tests.
My kids took the PSAT in tenth grade. That was a good way to obtain a baseline. They set personal goals that were realistically obtainable. They took the SAT twice…D1 took it in March and May of junior year and D2 took it in March and May of tenth grade when she decided to graduate HS a year early. And they took SAT Subject tests in June of that same year. Before each SAT sitting, they took some practice tests. Doing so, really improved their score. They were not obsessed with it and whatever they got after doing that prep, they would live with. But it was worth putting a little time in. As I already mentioned before, D1 had trouble finishing the test on time and so with practice testing, she improved in being able to complete the test in the allotted time which raised her score significantly. I’d say D2 (MT kid) took about 5 practice timed tests. That alone raised her scores a lot too. But they only planned to take it twice and were all done before their admissions year. I don’t advocate stressing over standardized testing and think time is better spent on other things. But I do believe one shouldn’t do nothing and leave it all to chance. I think practice before the test can pay off and can never hurt. The tests, unfortunately, do count.
In CC, people post what they know. If the world you know is full of things like attending gifted and talented summer programs, college level standardized tests before you hit puberty, graduating early, and all of the rest, maybe it doesn’t feel stressful or at all like preparation for SAT/ACT or college in general. But if that is not how you roll and summers were spent deliberately or out of necessity not doing anything that remotely smacked of school, running amok in the neighborhood, complaining to your parents that you were bored, getting into hopefully harmless trouble etc., the things you all are describing above sound an awful lot like preparation for college and thus, may inadvertently be causing some folks reading those kinds of activities to hyperventilate.
Now I am from a world where attending gifted and talented summer programs or schools described above is what I know and is very much available so it doesn’t make me hyperventilate but I do think that taking standardized tests for college at a young age IS test prep even if the kids don’t seem to stress about it which I hope was true. I know plenty of kids who took those tests early and were under a great deal of pressure and expectation to do well. Common in some cultures or some socioeconomic groups as it all seems to be what some describe as a race to nowhere. I don’t believe for a moment that for those kids anyway, taking the tests early was entirely stress-free but maybe it was. I cannot judge what I didn’t do myself even if the opportunities were within easy reach.
Both of my kids prepped for the ACT. One by flipping through the book a couple of days before the exam and the other by attending a 6 week, 2 hour a week prep class that ended the weekend before the exam. The kid in the prep class was plopped in that specific class by design because 1. it was short in duration in terms of weeks - no way would that particular kid have retained anything beyond that to provide meaningful benefit for the test and 2. each class was only 2 hours because a nanosecond after 2 hours, same kid would have lost interest. It is BORING stuff to learn. It’s not like listening to a fascinating lecture on the mating ritual of seahorses or anything equally spellbinding.
Anyway, prep comes in all sizes shapes and colors and very few kids tackle these tests blind. Some do and do really well. But I can’t imagine why one would just say “hey kid, there you go and good luck with that.” A kid should know that guessing on the SAT comes with a penalty. If you can eliminate a couple of answers before you guess, maybe the guess is worth it and otherwise, maybe not. A kid should also know to not leave a single question blank on the ACT if they run out of time. If somebody whispers either one of those things into kid’s ear before they show up with their #2 pencils, they have been prepped.
Competitive parenting comes in all shapes and sizes…
I have heard of kids in some communities or cultures who prep for SATs very young and for few years. I cannot relate.
I didn’t see the JHU/CTY Talent Search as test prep. It was something you entered and got academic achievement recognition for and it was a feel good ceremony. Some kids do avail themselves of the JHU Summer programs. My kids had NO interest in ever attending any kind of summer academic programs of any sort, though there is nothing wrong with those who enjoy that. My kids went to performing arts camps and one also did two summers of travel programs. I was grateful for the involvement with JHU/CTY, however. First, they send some print information that I found very useful as to how to accommodate certain learning needs. Our state and school system had no gifted and talented programs whatsoever. My kids ended up needing individualized academic accommodations over the years through their public schooling. Having the information from JHU/CTY and even the SAT scores in hand in middle school were beneficial in meetings where academic accommodations and acceleration were planned for. Again, it also allowed D1 to take second year AP Calculus BC in 12th grade long distance through JHU when she had exhausted our school’s math curriculum which only goes through AP Calculus AB (same happened for D2 but she instead went to college after 11th grade). D2 was able to take college level writing in 8th grade long distance through JHU/CTY. But to be able to do that, she had to take the SATs in 7th grade to qualify. But there was no stress to take the test (these courses were a benefit after the fact), and it was more like entering a contest and winning and going to a very nice ceremony that they felt good about. It wasn’t really anything to do with college admissions.
D2 didn’t want to take the PSAT in 11th grade because she was already done all her SAT testing in 10th grade (I certainly understood and so she didn’t take it), though some might think we were nuts because the 11th grade PSAT counts for National Merit, whereas her 10th grade PSAT didn’t count for anything.
I think getting a baseline with the PSAT is a good thing. I think one can set a reasonable personal goal and practice a bit before taking the real SAT and take it a second time with a little practice once again (simply retaking it doesn’t tend to alter a score in a significant way). I think taking practice tests under timed conditions and going over one’s wrong answers with explanations of why the right answer is the right one, can be helpful. As the tests count, I think a little practice makes sense. Obsessing and focusing on testing too much is not worth it, in my view. Giving it your best shot with a little prep and effort, is worth it, in my view. The only time my kids focused on the test was the few months of Junior year (for younger D, that was her tenth grade year) and that was it. Even then, it was a matter of a half dozen practice tests, which isn’t a real lot, but enough to have made a difference and resulted in a 200 point gain (when the SAT was just Reading and Math and not Writing). I think the main goal was for the test scores to reflect a true assessment of what they could do on the test, and not in comparison to others. They set a realistic personal goal to improve on the second sitting and reached that goal. That goal may not be high enough in some people’s views, but they were pleased enough and stopped taking tests. Two sittings seems about right to me. After that, it is just too much focus on testing. But that is just my opinion. I really can’t imagine taking the tests blindly with no practice. Part of the test is just knowing HOW to take it and what to expect and also how to pace yourself. Some familiarity with it seems like a positive thing to me, and isn’t obsessive and is what I think the minimal thing needed when tests like these count for admissions.
^^^SoozieVT you are an expert and do college consulting for a living. I trust what you have to say on this and you offer excellent advice and have done right by this community for years. We are not worthy…
All I was trying to add (probably badly) was that circumstances matter when you assess what one needs to do and I think the up and comers should feel comfortable in their own skins and feel good about working with what they have got. I feel, rightly or wrongly, that sometimes people with highly capable, and/or very fortunate kids forget that the path can be different for others and it is possible to not realize the wake that is left when things are spoken about as if they are easy and normal.
I felt like there was some of that offered above. I’m the parent of kids in the same situation so I’m not one to talk but if I can, I’d like to offer a check and balance in case it is helpful because I live in that world, but don’t always drink from the exact same well by choice. Nor does anyone else have to if they choose not to or just can’t or don’t live in that world at all and cannot relate.
So apologies for once again sharing a personal story to illustrate a point, but we didn’t do any of those summer things though they were offered and available. Full disclosure, we did send our kids to ridiculous private schools you could not or would not have wanted to graduate early from. And we did not but could have sent our kids to gifted and talented programs which many in our circle did but we didn’t because we didn’t want to pay for them and instead, they had summer jobs or ran amok or complained about being bored or god only knows what they really did. We had choices and made ours. Drew lines in the sand in certain places and allowed flexibility in others. There is no right answer. Last I checked (or my checkbook checked) both of my kids are in college so I guess it worked out OK.
I certainly agree that circumstances, opportunities, and individual needs vary greatly. That is why I think education itself, as well as college advising, needs to be highly individualized. The same advice doesn’t work for all people. You have to take every child and tailor things to their needs, levels, goals, and so forth. I used to be a classroom teacher and taught in a highly individualized classroom.
Anything I share about my own children is a mere example of individuals, and not meant to be normal or “right.” Every kid and every circumstance differs.
AND there is no right path to reaching one’s goals. In fact, everyone’s goals also differ. Opportunities even differ.
An EXAMPLE with my own children…there were no private school options in our region, except a private ski academy. Our school system had no gifted and talented programs. When my kids attended our HS, it only had one AP class. My kids did not take a fully typical path through our school system and had various accommodations to meet their learning needs. Some asked us why we didn’t send them away to boarding school, but we not only could not afford private school, but would not have wanted to send our kids away during those years (which is the only private school option and something many we know chose to do). One of our kids graduated HS early and I would never advocate that as a path for all kids (and it was her idea, not ours). One of our kids entered K early. For her it was the right decision, even though so many parents were holding their kids back an extra year even when eligible to start K. We didn’t have drama programs at our HS (though it did put on productions) and no youth theater programs in our area either. We had no performing arts high schools.I’m glad my kids got to experience that in summer programs out of state. But not everyone can do that. My kids qualified for need-based aid at colleges, and other kids don’t. Some kids are limited by financial constraints where they can attend and some aren’t. And so on and so forth.
We all share experiences on here and I don’t think it is meant to be what was the right way or a better way, but only personal situations.
My suggestion of taking timed practice tests for the ACT or SAT and going over the answers is advice, however, I give to all my students. I do think it is the most effective prep and the cheapest (free, except buying the book). I also recommend getting testing out of the way by the end of junior year as there is enough to do in senior year on the admissions process itself. Still, I have many families who come to me after junior year and so I have to take their individual circumstances and come up with a testing plan tailored to that. It is beneficial to have test scores in hand when creating a college list and so not knowing the final scores until mid fall in senior year, makes that a bit harder, but I have had many students where we have re-examined the college list once fall test scores are released. So, some of what I shared about ACT/SATs here was general advice, even though all college counseling is individually tailored.
Well, I guess I will get my D to at least go over the practice booklet and she is taking the PSAT I think next wk. So, that will be helpful I hope. Yes, CC is a great forum for info and I appreciate it immensely but it most certainly makes some of us feel inadequate in prepping our kid and that we are not doing enough junior year.The MT process carries its own stress & now of course I have to add just regular college test stress plus on top of finances…my sleep level will be severely deficient for the next 2 yrs I believe… the last time I mentioned the SAT to my D she grunted and said "Oh yeah that sucks " She despises tests…and is getting huge anxiety over the math portions already thinking about them. I am SO trying not to channel my anxiety on to her but I am sure I am failing miserably. She is just trying to keep her GPA as high as possible because even though she always says “grades should not be the sole determining factor in my college admission” , she knows its part of the game and she has to play it. Every yr she tries to keep her math deficiency from affecting her GPA too much and so far has been doing OK and has a 3.9. However, this yr her math is more difficult and she is just hoping her AP class balances it all out as she excels in it.
@theaterwork _ there are many, many kids not represented in these posts that are not good at taking tests. I think they are less inclined to discuss test scores. It is intimidating when all we read on CC is about the kids who get 30+ on their tests without even studying. But just know most kids are not in that group.
If you know your child is not a strong test taker, I would recommend they do some test prep either on their own or through a class or individual tutoring. The goal of this test prep is to become familiar with the type of questions being asked, how to manage your time and how to learn the tricks to taking these tests. (@halflokum explains this well in post #11). I am envious of the families whose kids were able to achieve high scores without such prep. But most kids do benefit from some preparation. It alleviates stress of the unknown. Remember also that strong grades can help offset a lower test score, so keep the grades up.
Don’t let CC stories of children who are extremely gifted academically intimidate you. I applaud the families who understand their child and their goals. There is no shame in needing to prepare for testing. And there should be no shame if you don’t end up with the score you desire. Some kids just don’t test well and it does not mean they are not smart nor does it mean they will not be successful. Unfortunately it can limit some of their school choices, but most likely those schools would not have been the best fit any way.
Also, even for those who achieve high test scores, if they are not academically inclined at this point in their lives, I would not spend the $ to send them to a rigorous academic institution no matter whether they were accepted or not. There are always kids who have high test scores but average grades because they are not good students day to day. For those students, I think parents need to carefully weigh their options. If rigorous academics are not what they want, chances are they are not going to do well in that environment no matter how smart they are or how high of a test score they achieved. Choose a school whose pace and curriculum suits them where they will be successful.
I think test prep, such as practice testing, is the way to go for anyone. And if your child has test anxiety, it is even more reason to become familiar with the test ahead of time and various strategies for taking it.
So much of these tests are learning HOW to take it. As mentioned, even though my older daughter was an excellent student, she had to get some tutoring help to learn how to finish the test in the allotted time because she had difficulty doing that which cost her a lot of points. So, learning how to do that, helped her score. A tutor can hone in on your weak spots, whereas a test prep class isn’t as individualized.
I think it also feels good to put in a little effort and then whatever score you get, accept it. You did what you could and then let it go.
Test scores are just one piece of the admissions process. And some simply don’t test well.
What @vvnstar says.
For our eldest S (who as elementary/middle school student had qualified as “gifted” in almost everything), ACT tutoring was about making his score “respectable” - not “wow” - so he would have a good chance at “somewhat selective” schools. Approximately ten sessions of private work did make him feel less stressed when it came time to do the “repeat” test - he felt much more confident about the “strategy”, not necessarily the “content” of the test. If I remember right, he was only tutored in the Science and English(??) areas. He raised his science score significantly enough to gain 3 points on the composite - somewhere around a 28ish. We were told at the time that gaining more than a point or two - even with tutoring - on the composite was unlikely, but he managed to get three. This put him in a “decent” merit scholarship category at “less-to-somewhat” selective schools. He ended up living at home and going to our local state university. The first three years were a real struggle for him in many ways - academically, mentally, emotionally, socially. It took him awhile to gain his footing as a student and his 5th year was finally successful. I am truly glad he did not attend a school that was “above” his level of “studentness”. For many kids those years are about much more than, “what’s my GPA?”.
In hindsight i wish we’d opted not to do test prep until we’d had all first round of scores in hand. Boys did SAT (they thought they could improve scores so signed up for additional test prep classes), meanwhile they’d already taken ACT but scores weren’t in yet. By the time test prep had already started, ACT scores were in and way off the chart, so we probably could have avoided the expense of SAT test prep classes altogether. I had been told kids from our particular HS tended to do better on ACT than SAT for whatever reason – perhaps it was well suited to the curriculum taught there? But in crazy-college-audition-admissions year, we were firing on all pistons and thought we had to do everything. I don’t even remember right now if they even took SAT second time? I think they both did and the classes only made marginal difference, although they knew their ACT scores were great so maybe they didn’t really care at that point. Maybe this post is only proof that memory of the crazy year fades and none of it matters four years later! 
ROFL
Don’t sweat it too much if your child is not a good test taker. If they are, definitely go for it…as good Test Scores equals terrific scholarship money. However, in many cases, they are NOT needed to be accepted into a school…even a top tier school.
There are numerous schools that are “test optional” which don’t require an SAT or an ACT for admission. Including Musical Theater, Drama and music schools.
Juilliard is a test optional school, as is Ithaca, Montclair State, and Baldwin Wallace. So is Muhlenberg, and the Manhattan School of Music (which is starting a BFA MT program, with some very impressive names attached to it). Also Berklee School of Music
There are other schools that are test optional if the applicant has a good GPA and/or class rank…such as Point Park University, and Wagner college.
And every year more and more schools are becoming test optional.
He is a link to Fair Test, a website that tracks which schools are test optional. I hope this eases some fears…applying to MT programs is stressful enough…let this ease your minds!
After having two children take both the SAT and the ACT multiple times, the # one lesson I learned as a parent is that the tests are much less consistent than you’d expect. Yes, my younger D who was more challenged by math had weaker math scores on both tests. But my older D who was a decent math student got a high of 670 in SAT math (89th percentile), but a week later got a 35 in math on the ACT (99th percentile).
On the second sitting of the SAT, older D went from a 650 to a 780 on the writing section. Absolutely no prep involved.
On the third sitting of the SAT, younger D went from having a 650 and a 670 on the SAT reading to nailing a 720. Absolutely no prep involved.
So my advice is, if you can find the time, have students take the tests as often as they during junior year without stressing. I would do prep/ practice to start off with and tutor in areas that show weakness. But more than anything, you may get lucky in multiple sittings and have a section go up significantly. (Or it can go the other way, like when D got a 24 on ACT reading and had gotten two 30’s prior to that. In that case, we sent the score anyway since other sections had strong scores, and the 24 stood out as an anomaly based on the other reading scores we sent.)
How do you guys remember all this stuff? Honestly, I barely remember what my kids looked like 4 years ago let alone their test scores. I know one did better on SAT’s and one on ACT’s, but can’t remember which one. Part of this may be my utter aversion to testing as a measure of success potential, and I guess I passed that on to my kids because neither of them prepped one second (though I encouraged them to because I know there are people who put great importance on it). If it makes anyone out there feel ANY better, my MT kid did no test prep whatsoever, probably got very little sleep the night before, and…did very average. She also didn’t take any AP classes (not offered at her school) and juggled her schedule to fit in all the dance, music, and acting classes she could, which even meant that one semester she was in a science class meant for slower kids (gasp) because it was the only one that fit the one slot left in her schedule (the school SERIOUSLY tried to talk her out of it to the point of almost not letting her do it, but conceded it would look no different on her transcript than the regular science class, so she did it anyway). Academically she took what she needed to get into the schools she was applying to, and though I don’t recall her GPA, she was about 20th in her class of 300ish in a quaint, rural, northern New England public school. So she was a decent though not stellar student who cared more about performing than academics. She did, however, do a lot of audition prep and got into 6 (out of 11) competitive MT audition programs with scholarships (some quite large) offered at all but one in spite of no designated financial need. So take this info as it is intended: that yeah, being an academic and ACT/SAT superstar is great, everyone gets deserved bragging rights, and it will help you with a couple of schools and probably with financial aid. But if the goal is to get into a good MT program, don’t feel bad if you or your kid is not the academically driven golden child. You can still do this, and with great success.
@calliene, than you so much for keeping it real. Great post.
I’d “thank” you but I really meant to than you. Entirely deliberate.
If there were more than-ing in the world @halflokum, it would be a better place ;))
Thanks @Calliene your post is a breath of fresh air to those of us worried!
Here’s a thought (hopefully a positive one) for those who are worried about the SAT and ACT…
The fact is that a large majority of BFA in MT schools are ones where an average or a little above average test score is in the ballpark for admissions. There are less BFA in MT colleges where a fairly high(er) test score is needed to be in the ballpark for admissions. Some of the latter (not all-inclusive) would be Northwestern, NYU, Elon, Emerson, UMichigan. So, really, if your child is an average scorer on SAT or ACT, it likely is “enough” for most BFA in MT schools, and is more of an issue at fewer MT schools that have a higher bar for the standardized tests in terms of admissions.