<p>I didn’t have my kids take these tests. If you think you would like to send your child to one of these programs, then of course you need to do it. I didn’t really see much point of spending the money and time taking the test just to get “identified”. </p>
<p>Seeing the stress and extreme anxiety levels evident from many of the kids on this site, I feel I made the right decision to keep such testing out of middle school. That’s been more difficult with second child, because she is seeing the whole process now, but she is a perfectionist and I really don’t want her to spend 8th grade worrying about any imperfections she might have in her current SAT-readiness. I am confident she will be ready when the time comes.</p>
<p>Back to the OP’s original question: the age 13 deadline she/he’s heard about may refer to the SET qualification requirements within CTY. Here’s the relevant page from their website: [Study</a> of Exceptional Talent | JHU CTY](<a href=“http://cty.jhu.edu/set/index.html]Study”>http://cty.jhu.edu/set/index.html)</p>
<p>"Mini- if you don’t like CTY then don’t have your kids attend. But to claim that the university makes money off of the HS programs is absurd- "</p>
<p>They fought us tooth-and-nail every step of the way. They only wanted Cooke money spent on their programs, and they basically told us why. It was Cooke money that was being handed to them, and they didn’t want a penny of it going anywhere but to their own offerings. To be fair, I don’t know that “the university” made any money off of it (though I know that for outside programs sponsored through the University of Washington, the U takes 45% of the funds - and I know that because my department used to contract with them.)</p>
<p>the only reason it could be helpful is that it shows the person what is on the test, and what it is like. The scores do not matter at all, and unless you go to the summer programs (which don’t matter that much either), it doesn’t really do anything.</p>
<p>I would advise you to not take it right now though, because the SAT is changing in a couple years (before your child may be taking it for real). You don’t want to put a test into his mind that will be different when he takes it next.</p>
<p>There a plenty of released SAT test questions to show your child what is on the SAT and what it is like, when your child is working on college admission testing. I don’t see any need to stress out a 12 year old with a test they aren’t prepared for. It might help them in the long run and make them more confident. But it might also cause them a lot of unnecessary anxiety, especially if they are feeling for years that you have expectations for their performance on this test which they may not be able to live up to. </p>
<p>The average scores reported in the Duke talent search were 420,440,400. That is really not all that impressive, considering many of these students are identified gifted or invited based on academic performance to take these tests. It could well be that the students just haven’t covered the necessary material in school yet, but I think it could be a real confidence-destroyer for an honors student who just isn’t prepared to see numbers like that. </p>
<p>If you have the kind of kid who would score 700+ on these tests in middle school, you most likely already know that from teacher comments, scores on other tests and general academic performance.</p>
<p>I think it depends on the parents if the kids get stressed out. We emphasized that the test was designed for high school students and it was no big deal what sort of score they got as they would not go on their permanent record. The whole point of the test is to separate out the kids that the schools system thinks are gifted from those that really are. And in our experience it really does help when you are trying to get the school system to believe that your child really is a special snowflake when every parent is claiming the same thing. Those 650+ scores really make them sit up. In any event, my older son loved the CTY courses he took - some of the math he learned in them he didn’t see again till college.</p>
<p>Early SAT/ACT test taking is only for gifted programs or knowing where your locally gifted child fits into the broader national scheme of things. Those test scores are NOT put into the data base used for HS test takers for colleges. It was helpful for us to know where our son fit into those considered gifted. By the testing we knew where he was in the Wisconsin and Midwest Talent Search pools of kids his grade (notice- grade, not age, he was accelerated). Taking the EXPLORE test (the ACT for 8th graders as I recall) in 5th grade was useful because the talent search also had many useful suggestions for different test scores- his showed it was good he had been accelerated. Our school district was on top of things- we did not need to use the test scores to show them what could/should be done for people like him. Others find ammunition and ideas to help their school district do a better job.</p>
<p>Do not use the test as a practice for the ordinarily bright/very bright child. It is very helpful for the sometimes unrecognized gifted students.</p>
<p>“My older d. took the SAT before her 13th birthday, and never took it again. (She got an 800 on the verbal). Scores can be saved on special request to the College Board, and that’s what we did.”</p>
<p>I thought that SAT scores are valid for 4 years only. Than they expire. If so, your D’s 13-year SAT score would expire before she finishes HS.</p>
<p>Mini simply requested the scores of the Bubble Queen to be kept.</p>
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<p>If you test in the 8th grade or below, your scores are removed from your file at the end of the academic year that you tested. If you don’t want your scores removed, you must let us know before June of the year you tested. Send your request to keep scores, including your full identification information, registration number and test date, to:</p>
<p>The College Board SAT Program
Attention: Talent Search Scores
P. O. Box 025505
Miami, FL 33102<<<</p>
<p>As far as missing out, you did not. Most everyone at my school qualified for TIP. Very few pursued the program. The few who did join enjoyed it, but the others simply had better and more enjoyable things to do in their free time. It is a personal matter. Again, some enjoy the program, but it surely does not come with an admission brownie or bonus. Like everything else from … Middle school.</p>
<p>Well, if you think your school will give your child a better education because of the scores, then do it. Our school already knows how my middle school child compares to high school seniors based on their own MAP testing. If I handed them 2400 SAT’s it wouldn’t make any difference, they still wouldn’t let her into the classes she needed this year.</p>
<p>I (currently a HS senior so you may not want to listen to me at all) took the ACT as part of Duke TIP in 7th grade. I got a 25 (overall 85 %ile, at least at the time) and got grand recognition. I did not go to the special programs for TIP, though.</p>
<p>I don’t agree with the whole anxiety argument. There is very little anxiety involved in taking a test for 3-4 hours. The test-anxiety comes from taking a test that can decide your future, but the reality is that the ACT/SAT tests in 7-8th grade can only help you. They don’t decide anything negatively. Anxiety also, at least for me, never made me score lower than I thought that I deserved. </p>
<p>If you can get involved in a program like Duke’s TIP program, I say do it. It is like the middle school version of national merit (without all the money). You’ll also be able to list scoring well as an accomplishment/award on competitive applications throughout middle school and highschool. Even if you don’t get attached to a program I don’t think it would be inappropriate to say that your child scored in the XX %ile of all takers of the test on some of his/her applications.</p>
<p>I think it can also be a good diagnostic. Off the top of my head I know 4 people’s, including myself, TIP ACT scores and final ACT scores: 24:32, 25:35, 25:36, 27:36. All national merit semifinalists. This is anecdota, of course, but it may be helpful. If your child scores in the 25+ range you might not want to waste money on private tutors at all and instead just buy him/her the official book when the time comes to take the actual tests. I’ve never felt like private tutors taught me anything extremely valuable, and most tutoring/classes are not directed toward people that are already probably going to be the top scorers anyway.</p>
<p>However, I also agree with mathyone in that you probably already know if your child would do very well on the test or not. Still, the test could be a good way to confirm your suspicions or provide some numerical evidence. I don’t really see any harm in taking the test.</p>
<p>What benefit did you get from “grand recognition”? You could travel all the way to Duke to attend a ceremony where you would get congratulated for doing well? </p>
<p>Once you were in high school, did anyone really care about what SAT scores you got back in middle school? The schools are so test-happy, I think my kids have 10 or 15 other test scores from middle school if anyone cared. My daughter applied for some selective programs while in high school. No one wanted to know anything about middle school. And it’s kind of redundant information with school grades and teacher recommendations anyhow. </p>
<p>Also, we all know that the SAT is a test for which you can improve your score greatly by prepping. I don’t think taking the test as a 7th grader without having prepped says much about how you might perform in high school after having completed the relevant coursework and done a reasonable job of prepping. So, then, do you make your 7th grader spend their time prepping for a college admissions test they probably aren’t prepared for anyhow? There are people on this site who have enrolled their middle school kids in Kaplan and such. I just think that’s inappropriate. I also think my daughter in middle school has much better things to do with her time than prepping for a test which won’t even matter for 3 more years. We know what societies which place their young kids under tremendous pressure to achieve on high stakes testing at high school age look like, we know how it destroys their childhood and pushed some of them to suicide.</p>
<p>I will add to your anecdotes. The only one of my senior daughter’s classmates who I know took the SAT in middle school did not make NMSF.</p>
<p>It’s something that you can put on your applications. In high school there were programs that I applied to where they encouraged students to list important awards from middle school, and grand recognition for TIP was almost always listed as an example. Still, it’s not like anybody ever really cared as far as classmates and day to day interaction were concerned. </p>
<p>I have been lucky enough to never need prepping and always considered it a waste of time for myself. If you think that your child might be similar (can score well in MS without any prep) you could potentially save yourself money in the future. Prepping for these tests while in middle school sounds like even more of a waste of time than prepping while in high school.</p>
<p>Of course, I know many other people who took the ACT/SAT in middle school, and most of them also did not make NMSF. I was listing the ones who scored reasonably well in MS, not the ones with 19’s. It’s honestly just one test, and the rewards you can gain from taking just 4 hours out of a morning outweigh the costs.</p>
<p>Well, contrary to the anecdotal evidence above, S and a friend were both “identified” by the CTY SAT in 7th grade, and they were both NMSFs.</p>
<p>S certainly seemed to feel no stress about the test, it was his choice to take it because he wanted to go to CTY, and he loved CTY all four years he went and looked forward to it all year. He also received a scholarship every year, and I am not sympathetic to unfounded accusations of money-grubbing. Of course they would prefer the Cooke funds go to them: they are providing a great service to thousands of kids, and the more money they can raise for scholarships, the more kids they can serve.</p>
<p>I couldn’t get him to do the Jack Kent Cooke application CTY sent us, unfortunately, because it certainly would have been a help if he were selected! Of course, I have no idea what his chances would have been.</p>
<p>BTW, re mini’s D’s SAT scores: I believe she went to Smith, which is SAT-optional.</p>
<p>My kids both took SAT exams in 7th and 8th grades as part of JHU CTY program. S won a scholarship to take two courses at local private U with tuition waived. He took one in statistics and was disappointed with the low quality of academics. </p>
<p>They both scored higher than the average SAT score for entering freshmen at our flagship U. We didn’t bother having scores saved; in HS, their scores were considerably higher. It was good for them to have exposure to SAT and timed testing; both were fine with it – enough to take it for both years consecutively in middle school.</p>
<p>Whether the scores are of any use in high school depends on your high school. At the local high school, the ability to accelerate in some subjects was tied to SAT scores. One instance affected rising sophomores. At the time, it would have been advantageous to have middle school SAT scores that automatically dropped from the CB record, rather than a 9th grade score that stayed on it.</p>
<p>This leaves out exceptional scorers such as mini’s daughter, of course, who want to keep the middle-school scores. On the other hand, almost all of the students who participate in the middle school talent identification program have not had the benefit of home schooling in mini’s family.</p>
<p>Is is different from … was. Not only did she need the SAT for her other primary applications, but Smith still required the SAT for admissions and merit aid. She applied in the year of the first Early Admission debacle at Yale, namely in 2003.</p>
<p>Her scores were head and shoulders above the typical SAT score. Fwiw, the lower than peer average at Smith probably played a large role in becoming test optional. A bit different from the version shared by Carol Christ. </p>
<p>Beginning with the class entering in the fall of 2009, Smith College will make the submission of SAT scores an optional part of the admission process.</p>
<p>The policy, approved by President Carol T. Christ after study by the Office of Admission and faculty approval, affirms the colleges practice in recent years of de-emphasizing the role of standardized test scores in the admission process.</p>
<p>I agree that it’s better to take the SAT in middle school than as a freshman and have that score on your record. At our school, all sophomores are required to take the PSAT, which would make any middle school scores obsolete. But I suppose if you anticipate applying for a program which requires scores after freshman year it would be helpful to have middle school scores.</p>
<p>I’m surprised that any schools would routinely use the SAT for placement. Don’t they trust their own grades, testing and teacher recommendations?</p>
<p>Regarding prepping for SAT or ACT tests to do better. Some gifted kids only need to do the practice test to be familiar with the testing format. No other prep. HS spring junior year 35 on ACT. Long story (won’t bore you with all of it) about kid who was supposed to retake the SAT Math II test (“but we’re reviewing precalc math in calculus” for the first take, sigh) who ended up retaking the SAT the second time in HS to get 2400. Studying for the subject tests is advised- but stubborn kids, no matter what their IQ et al, may not listen.</p>
<p>Some kids should take the SAT and/or SAT, not only for eligibility for summer courses, but to find out where they stand academically before HS. Instead of being at the 99th percentile whenever standardized tests are taken a kid many find s/he is only at the 90th percentile of gifted kids who took the test that year.</p>
<p>Going to gifted summer camps is great for being with academic peers (for a change) and for learning a lot, keeping mentally stimulated. However- sometimes those kids come home after relating to others in the stratosphere with an attitude that parents are so stupid (where do they think they got their brains?- those same parents provided both the genes and environment). Gifted kids are complex, just as different from the average as those on the opposite end of the Bell curve (and as much in need of a differentiated education).</p>