SAT dilemma, NMS at stake?

Parents Forum
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<p>i've tried asking for advice in the SAT forum but my post was greeted with negative comments and little help, for the most part. I omitted the last math section of the Oct SAT, so my math score will likely be drastically lowered. I pulled satisfactory scores on the old SAT though. here's my breakdown:</p>

<p>Old SAT: 780v 670m
New SAT: ~800cr ~500m (possibly lower. point is, it's going to be a significant drop) ~800w</p>

<p>I'm a national merit semi, and I've also applied to harvard EA. From what I understand, harvard technically considers only the highest scores from each section, including old SAT scores. Am I correct in assuming that they wouldn't ordinarily attribute higher scores to luck alone? Will the low one still have an impact? I think NMS shares Harvard's SAT policy. </p>

<p>I can only take the november SAT as a standby, if it's necessary to prove that my better score wasn't a fluke.</p>

<p>Thanks for any advice.....</p>

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<p>I don't have any Harvard experience, or NMS experience (I thought that was PSAT?) -- However, my oldest took the SAT the first time with bronchitis and a temp of 104 (we didn't realize he had the fever until he came home). He got a 1370 - don't remember the breakdown. He took it again, healthy, and got a 1550. Nobody questioned the discrepancy between the two scores, although I remember him wishing somebody would ask so he could explain! But his grades, recs, etc. all supported the higher score, so I don't think it was much of a deal at all. He went to Penn, by the way, but got in at several other highly selective schools as well.</p>

<p>I do believe colleges are true to what they say -- If they say they only look at the higher, then I think that is what they will do. They will also see if your other admissions material matches the higher scores. A's in AP math are NOT going to support a 500.</p>

<p>Does the college "require" the new SAT? (Or are they willing to take the old scores?)</p>

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<p>You might try calling NMScorp and explaining your situation. I actually found them helpful the couple of times I called with questions about NMF issues. HTH!</p>

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<p>Harvard only considers the highest test scores. I have heard this directly from an adcom, whom I know personally. I think that people with common sense -- and H adcoms have plenty -- would assume that a score dropped as did yours because of either the kind of mistake that you made or because of something like an illness during the test.</p>

<p>My suggestion is to just send a note to Harvard letting them know what happened. This is more to reassure you than because I think it's necessary, though I imagine that adcoms would briefly muse about what happened, but I don't think they'd assume that you cheated or lucked into your previous high score. </p>

<p>For what it's worth, I'm an alum interviewer for H.</p>

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<p>OP:</p>

<p>at one Ivy info session we attended (not Harvard's), the adcom was clear to point out that they do take the highest individual scores...BUT, at the same time also gave an example of a student that had a 800/680 on the first test, and then xx/800 on the second. The adcom noted that the xx was so low, they assumed that the student was not be fair to the test, and he was rejected.</p>

<p>Definitely follow nsm's suggestion.</p>

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<p>If you still have space on your Harvard App, you should consider explaining your situation under the Additional Information section.</p>

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<p>thanks so much for your advice. that's really reassuring. i've already sent in my EA application, but i'll send them a note.</p>

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<p>I'm not convinced you are being honest with us. Students, especially those who aspire to Ivy League schools, don't "just get tired" and omit an entire section - especially when it is not the last section of the test. (On your other thread, you said it was the eighth section. The test has ten sections.) Do you want us to believe you stared at the ceiling/floor for 20 minutes without attempting a single question? Then, for the next section you returned to the test as if nothing were amiss?</p>

<p>You are the very person who asked last June if a student could take the same SAT II in one sitting. That is, you proposed that a student do one SAT II test in the first time period. Then, rather than turning to a second test during the second time period, this student would spend that time on the first SAT II test, thus doubling the time spent doing the first test. </p>

<p>Perhaps I'm overly suspicious, but my guess is that you thought the omitted section was the experimental section and used that time to work on other sections of the test. After the test, you learned that the omitted section was not the experimental section. </p>

<p>Your excuse is not passing the sniff test with me. I hope Harvard investigates whether the peculiar odor belongs to a rat.</p>

<p>My apologies if I'm wrong.</p>

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<p>Hmmm. After reading EllenF's comments, this is what I found from the OP's other posts. I gotta admit that I agree with Ellen. Totally. The poster's excuse doesn't make sense. People who are Ivy wannabees just don't skip an entire section because of exhaustion. I don't believe him. I have the feeling that adcoms won't believe him either.</p>

<p>"i had the experimental math section. My last math section was sect. 8, which i totally skipped because i was exhausted.</p>

<p>June:
i wonder whether people ever do this....
if someone took a test and felt pretty confident about all of his answers but had to guess on a few....then would he go ahead and take the same test a second time (same administration date, same proctor everything) but fill in the alternative plausible answers to those he bubbled in on the first sheet, giving him better odds that one might yeild a perfect score? Or does CB have some check against this....i'm sure they must....
it'd be like retaking, except drastically narrowing chances of wrong answers (if you guess well enough to narrow a question down to two solutions)...</p>

<p>i would personally not do this. i'm over with SAT IIs, and it seems a bit risky but is this a loophole in CB's policies or is this an explicit NO-NO"</p>

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<p>i can understand that you would suspect me. At the same time, you've ignored some glaringly obvious facts in your haste to accuse me.
Honestly, if I were a cheater, wouldn't i have used that extra time to work on my comparatively poor math score?
I already got close to perfect, 780 (missed 2 questions) on the old verbal section, and writing is no hard feat if you're good at the critical reading/verbal part of the test. I have little reason to devote time to these sections at the expense of my math score.
A 670 on the old math section (the one i did NOT mess up on) is nothing to be proud relative to all of the "800" math applicants harvard gets to choose from. If i had chosen to cheat on the new test, the math section would have been my logical target. I have only ever made Bs in math, and would never step near a math SATII. Trust me, I could really use a higher math score.
I never cheated on my SAT IIs either. If you really want to believe that you've caught a "rat," so be it. Otherwise, I could have my college board SATII report sent to you; you would see that I did indeed take the tests before I made that earlier post.
I know that this forum must be a haven for cheaters, but I am not one of them. For god's sake. I am getting tired of this game.</p>

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<p>there are different versions of the test. i believe that on my test, the last math section was 8, followed by a CR and a writing. CR and writing are second nature to me; math on the other hand is always a particularly stressful race against the clock.
i am sure that in all of your investigations, you must have read my excuse in the SAT forum for my exhaustion the day of the test. there are means, far less sanitary means, of proving that to you as well.
i apologize for my tone in these posts, the morbid reference here (to be honest, what in this lousy "rat race" isn't reason for getting a little morbid?), but i have taken offense.
Why would i want to get myself into this mess anyway?
why don't you take a look at my profile, check out the link to my art site where my full name is in plain view, and report me to CB or harvard? i'd just about welcome a reason to throw my arms up in defeat, at this point.</p>

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<p>If you didn't cheat, I apologize for thinking that you may have.</p>

<p>Meanwhile, my advice still stands: Explain your situation to Harvard. You can do this while submitting the application or you can do it through e-mail if you've already submitted the application. </p>

<p>From what I've heard directly from an adcom, they consider only your top score in each section of the SAT, so there's a good chance that the adcoms won't even see how much your math score dropped. </p>

<p>Meanwhile, it's time for you to move on from obsessing about this. It's impossible to know the minds of the adcoms. As is the case with all applicants to places like HPYS, after getting applications in to your favored reach schools make sure that you put an equal amount of energy and thought into your match and safeties.Many people aspire to HPYS, but relatively few are accepted.</p>

<p>My advice (which I give to everyone who applies to the HPYS type of colleges) is to pin one's hopes and dreams on one's match and safety schools because there's a good chance that is where you'll end up. If your dream school comes through for you, you quickly can embrace it again. Your school year will go better if you embrace now the likelihood that your reach schools are likely to remain just dreams and a match or safety school will become your beloved alma mater. If you have to rethink things because of some unexpected good news in April, so much the better.</p>

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<p>last time i checked, quiltguru, my junior SAT score of 1450 was adequate by harvard standards.....
thanks Northstarmom, i'll follow your advice. i'm not obsessing over harvard in particular; i was also concerned about what sort of message my score discrepancies present to scholarship organizations and other colleges, and what i could do, if anything, to rectify it.
thanks to all for the advice, and please forgive my earlier outburst. my initial intention, though, was not to "manufacture excuses," if you look at my first couple posts. had the facts been given more careful consideration, i think the accusers would have exercised greater reserve. after all, what sense is there in working on an already near-perfect score at the expense of an already fairly pronounced weakness....?</p>

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<p>i realize now what might have caused some additional confusion. when i posted "i had the experimental math section. My last math section was sect. 8, which i totally skipped because i was exhausted," you might have believed that i was referring to section 8 as the experimental.
All i know is that i had the experimental math section on my SAT, as opposed to the experimental CR or writing, because i had more math sections than any of the other kinds. I did NOT assume that the section i was skipping was THE experimental. any test taker knows that's impossible to determine.
i think i've accumulated a fairly convincing body of evidence. if you feel there is additional reason to suspect me, PM me. i don't know what else i could do to dispel those doubts, but i rely on these forums heavily and can't stand, personally, to have everyone think of me as a cheater....
clearly, i'm not taking this very lightly :)</p>

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<p>OP: Its probably good enough. SATS are only one criteria. We now know that you are good at taking tests. However the worry that you have indicates that you have not read the literature that CollegeBoard tells everyone on retaking tests. </p>

<p>I'd think about getting good recs. balance in life, and your future if you did not get into HYP. The odds are not in your favor even if you get 2400 scores.</p>

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<p>believe it or not, i am actually being pretty levelheaded about harvard and the other ivies. i'm not as deluded as some here might think....</p>

<p>what i find particularly unnerving is that the nastiest post on this thread was deleted. it's silly enough for a 17 year old to delete his/her meanspirited comments when the tide turns out of his/her favor, but for a 48 year old to do so is downright ridiculous. Why not simply apologize instead?</p>

<p>If i am mistaken about this-- if the poster did not delete his/her own post, or if i am somehow hallucinating-- then please forgive me.</p>

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<p>ontolome, I did not delete my own post. And I apologize for my nasty tone. However, my skepticism remains the same. I'm very sorry, but I cannot countenance a student who "gives up" on a standardized test because they are "tired" and then refuses to take responsibility for having done so. I participate in admissions for a medical school, not an undergraduate school. But if a student "explained" to me that they had skipped a section on the MCAT because they were tired, I would conclude that they did not have the commitment to medicine that was required to do the job.</p>

<p>I still see that you have not taken responsibility for what is, at best, a sketchy decision and continue to defend yourself. If you made this decision, then you frankly would have been smarter to take the responsibility of cancelling your scores in time to do so, and not tell a soul.</p>

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<p>congratulations, that was among the fastest responses i've ever witnessed, given the time of day. could it be that you are more interested in saving face than you are in engaging in fair discussion?</p>

<p>do you see? i am being snide and needlessly skeptical.</p>

<p>frankly, i did somewhat regret not deleting my score. i needed the writing however, and, in light of the school's policy of considering only an applicant's highest scores, i felt that the drop in my math score would be overlooked and that i could depend on my CB report nevertheless. The November test date was going to be an inconvenient one for me, but since i was still a little bit worried about how Harvard would view my scores, I decided to ask for advice on this forum: would it be necessary, after all, to forego an important debate tournament in November in order to retake the SAT as a standby (and with little possibility of topping my highest scores at that), OR, could I rest assured that the incident wouldn't have devastating effects on my application?</p>

<p>Those who chose to give me advice-- rather than making hasty, sloppy accusations-- confirmed my belief that the lower score would be overlooked. This thread should have stopped at that point.</p>

<p>That's why I came here in the first place-- to find a solution. I did NOT come here for validation or to complain, and only began to explain myself once accused of dishonesty. My explanation was substantive; the specifics of my situation do NOT point to cheating. Nor am I trying to justify my low score-- which, to be honest, i am perfectly ashamed of; i have been defending myself against an illogical accusation. Your claim that I was crafting wishywashy excuses for my apparent lack of ability is hogwash. You insist on holding me accountable for that, while in actuality the question at hand is whether or not I cheated.</p>

<p>If I am wrong, and you are indeed addressing that subject instead of making underhanded jabs at my character, then your attack is still a weak one. You've failed to take into account any of the evidence which invalidates the accusation. In fact, you haven't even come up with any good reason why it might have been so.</p>

<p>Whether or not my abilities fit the Harvard measure doesn't concern you or anybody else on this thread. Leave that up to the admissions committee. If you're going to make belligerent posts, at least have the integrity to address the matter on its actual terms, quiltguru.</p>

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<p>"engaging in fair discussion"</p>

<p>No, my dear, it is clear that you are NOT interested in engaging in fair discussion. Fair discussion involves entertaining other's opinions and ideas. What you wanted was to be "rest assured that the incident wouldn't have devastating effects on my application" and nothing else. When others (EllenF, Northstarmom, and myself) expressed the opinion that, indeed, this might not be the case and you should have other colleges in your sights, you lashed out.</p>

<p>Actually, in the previous post I was merely letting you know that I had nothing to do with deleting my earlier post. And I said and implied nothing about your honesty. I do, however, as I would an applicant to my top 10 medical school, question the commitment of any student who neglected an entire section of a standardized test required for entry into medical school for any reason except extreme illness. "Tired" doesn't count.</p>

<p>I wish for you whatever college is best suited to your talents and personality, that is, the best "fit". I encourage you to carefully consider your safeties and matches since you, like all students applying to HYPS, may well need them.</p>

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<p>i hate to be arguing with an adult as respectable as yourself over this matter, but i really do feel as though i have the upper ground. i've assessed the facts more thoroughly....because i know that i did not cheat, and because more is at stake for me :)</p>

<p>also, your continued insistence on giving additional consideration to my safeties is particularly unnerving. I have them considered; like i said, I'm not deluded. in reiterating it you imply that my abilities don't make the harvard cut. If i'm not made for the school, it's my own business, not yours or this thread's. </p>

<p>before my honesty came into question, even one of the accusers felt that my problem wasn't very serious. It seems like the belief that i might have been a cheater accounts for her change of mind. </p>

<p>"When others (EllenF, Northstarmom, and myself) expressed the opinion that, indeed, ["that the incident wouldn't have devastating effects on my application"] might not be the case and you should have other colleges in your sights"
ONLY happened AFTER and BECAUSE of the accusation.</p>

<p>there is one exception to this, if you look at bluebayou's post near the top. this person expressed concern, but their concern has little actual relation to my situation. a student, according to bluebayou, was rejected because he/she "had a 800/680 on the first test, and then xx/800 on the second." This does suggest cheating. An area which was initially the tester's strong point became his weak point, and vice versa. It is quite possible that the tester allotted time that was due to one section, to the other. In my situation, a strength has remained a strength, and weakness has grown more pronounced.</p>

<p>You're dwelling on the excuse, which is really quite accessory. I will probably not even send a note to the school. As the posters said before, it is generally understood that testers' performance varies in quality; many colleges agree to consider one's highest scores for that reason.....why else?</p>

<p>please, you still haven't addressed the facts.....</p>