<p>just wondering how much your gpa and test scores affect your chances of getting into a good school if you're applying as a music major</p>
<p>Thanks!</p>
<p>If you are applying as a music major (BA) they make a really big difference.</p>
<p>For audition performance majors, they make less of a difference. However, I still believe they are a tipping point, and high scorers (on both auditions/grades/SATs) seem to get more scholarship money.</p>
<p>It depends on the school. Some such as Rice even the BM requires good scores and grades since you have to get into the university,too. Conservatory level programs within a university instead of stand alone will be more sensitive to grades and scores. Usually you do not have to be at the top of the score range but need to be within it. For other schools, it mostly makes a difference in scholarships. You need to check each school you are interested in.</p>
<p>Good scores and GPA cannot make up for a less than adequate audition but a great audition can sometimes make up for less than stellar GPA and scores. This varies from school to school.</p>
<p>From what I'v seen, it seems to boil down to how much control a music school has over its own admissions. In a situation like Peabody or Oberlin Conservatory, where the music conservatories entirely manage their own admissions separately from JHU and Oberlin College, unless you completely tanked in high school, it all comes down to the audition.</p>
<p>In other schools, you need to pass muster with regular university admissions to be considered by the school. </p>
<p>Bottom line: read their Web sites because you really can't generalize much about this subject.</p>
<p>I have heard that Oberlin Conservatory has some minimum academic expectations that are well above the "completely tanked" level. The curriculum for non-double degree students in the conservatory requires an average of one class per semester taken in the college. Con students need to be able to pull at least a C in classes that are designed for and mostly populated by Oberlin College students. The average SAT scores for College vs Conservatory can be found at
<a href="http://oberlin.edu/instres/irhome/www/sche25/%5B/url%5D">http://oberlin.edu/instres/irhome/www/sche25/</a>
and while the numbers for the Con are somewhat lower than for the College, they are still quite respectable. I have heard their Conservatory admission reps say flat out that they will not accept anyone whom they believe would not be able to complete the College portion of the curriculum.</p>
<p>thanks does anyone know how much it affects admissions at any of these schools?</p>
<p>University of Chicago
Bucknell
University of Boston
Carnegie Mellon
Miami University(OH)
St. Olaf
Brandeis</p>
<p>I've never heard of a University of Boston. Do you mean Boston University?</p>
<p>Chicago, Bucknell, Brandeis are all top tier academic schools, and will be a tough admit no matter how good your musicianship skills are. Chicago, especially, has pretty much Ivy League standards. BU, CMU, Olaf are also rather selective academic institutions. I don't know about Miami at Ohio.</p>
<p>In other words - as a music major, I think to get into any school that is not a conservatory, you will also need to be admitted to the overall college as well. Some schools are tough. Others, like Purchase, Hartt, etc.. are easier admits in terms of GPA and testing.</p>
<p>Chicago does not have an undergrad music performance major. They do not hold auditions until orientation week, so the audition plays no part in your acceptance (unless perhaps you are already known at the national or international level.) Acceptance there is based on the normal non-musical criteria and as stephmin points out, you might as well be trying to get into an Ivy. A frequent poster on this board, Cosmos, attends Chicago but studies double bass at a different school. Perhaps she can give a first-hand account of how that is working out.</p>
<p>Likewise, Brandeis does not have a BM performance program, rather a BA in non-performance areas. The only audition I know of there is for the Bernstein scholarships, not for admission. Again, the normal academic selection process applies and they are quite highly selective, albeit a notch or two down from Chicago.</p>
<p>The other four schools all have auditioned BM music programs. CMU has a very highly regarded music program in most disciplines and requires both a very strong audition and great academics. They are probably about as selective as Brandeis, although probably a little stronger on the Math and Technical side where Brandeis may have the edge in some other departments.</p>
<p>BU has a very good music program, but can vary a bit by discipline. For example, it is one of the very best in the country for double bass, but is not at the very top in some other areas. They are not as selective as the three mentioned above, but I believe that music performance majors have to be admitted separately by both the University (based on academics) and the Music Department (based on the audition).</p>
<p>Bucknell is another strong academic school, roughly in the same league as CMU and Brandeis. I do not know much about its music department, other than it does not seem to be a primary destination for top performance students the way CMU and BU are in many departments. As such, I suspect that academics will be very important, but a strong audition on an instrument or voice part that they need might become a factor in an admissions decision.</p>
<p>St. Olaf has one of the best choirs anywhere and is a primary destination for a lot of voice majors. They also have instrumental programs that, while not usually considered among the very top conservatories, are often thought of as a match or a safety school by those who are applying to the top programs (which are a reach for pretty much everybody.) They are also pretty strong academically, perhaps half a notch down from Brandeis/CMU/Bucknell and half a notch above BU. I know, at least in the case of a couple of very good singers, that they have taken people off the waiting list whose academic stats were good but less than stellar.</p>
<p>Miami of Ohio is one of those sleeper schools that has a very good music program and accepts students who either are not quite at the top conservatory level or who want to study music, but not at a conservatory. Academically, they are less selective than any of the others on your list, but they still get some very talented students. A frequent poster on this board, binx, has a daughter there who I believe also looked at St. Olaf. Perhaps she can chime in with particulars about those two.</p>
<p>BassDad, Do you know anything about BU's clarinet Dept.</p>
<p>Sorry, I do not.</p>
<p>At Boston University, if you are applying as a music major you have to pass both an audition AND be admitted by the university. If your stats are borderline, and you have an exceptionally terrific audition, the music department can "lean" on admissions to accept you. But at BU, there is a university core course requirement that all music majors must fulfill. It is in BU's best interest to accept students who can also pass those courses. Essentially, your stats need to be in the "ball park"...unless you are the very talented child of Yo Yo Ma or Winton Marsalis...but then that might constitute a "hook" almost anywhere!</p>
<p>Just a small nitpick here: Purchase's mean SAT's are much higher than Hartt's, and it's one of the most competitive conservatories. They are picky about academic stats. We live in New York and it is a common misconception that Purchase is "easy" to get into. Those of us who have actually researched it and applied there know otherwise!</p>
<p>Purchase conservatory is a competitive conservatory. Yes. But, can you tell me a true accredited conservatory that is NOT competitive?</p>
<p>Not saying it's not a good program, because there's certainly some fine faculty members there. I even applied and auditioned there myself a few years ago. However, amongst the top tier of collegiate music majors, those who attend schools in the likes of Curtis, Juilliard, NEC, Rice, Yale, Oberlin, etc etc, virtually every person regards Purchase as a fine "safety" but far from the ideal destination.</p>
<p>In fact, I know a large number of friends who have auditioned at Purchase in recent years. Several are attending right now, and all of those several are attending because it was the only school they were accepted into. I have only one acquaintance that was denied acceptance, a flutist in the 2006 audition cycle. So, your "those of us who have actually reserached it and applied there know otherwise!" comment does not apply to me and everyone I know.</p>
<p>BassDad, i play double bass. Are there any other schools you would recommend for bass?</p>
<p>I would need to know a bit more about you to make any meaningful recommendations. Feel free to answer the following here or via PM if you prefer not to post too much information.</p>
<p>What are your ultimate goals? Playing in an orchestra, in some other kind of ensemble, freelancing, teaching, anything else?</p>
<p>What level is your playing? Will you be ready to audition with at least two movements of a major concerto (Koussevitzky, Vanhal or similar difficulty) by January, or are you more at the level of Baroque sonatas like Eccles and Vivaldi?</p>
<p>How much performing experience do you have? What are some of the solo and orchestral pieces that you have enjoyed playing? Are you currently playing with a youth symphony, a school orchestra, any honors ensembles? Have you won any contests? What summer programs, if any, have you attended?</p>
<p>French bow or German? Do you care if your teacher plays the other? Would you consider switching if asked?</p>
<p>Are you pretty much a straight-up Simandl method player, or have you been studying the so-called Rabbath technique (lots of left-hand pivoting and increased emphasis on playing across the strings)?</p>
<p>Are you primarily interested in classical only, jazz only, a bit of both, or any other styles of music?</p>
<p>Are there any other limitations or needs that you have, such as restrictions to a particular area of the country, need for either low tuition or a certain amount of financial aid, preference for or against a conservatory vs a university setting vs a liberal arts college, city vs suburbs vs rural, etc? Might you be open to studying with a private bass teacher while attending college as something other than a performance major, or would you prefer not to have the extra complications and expense that approach involves?</p>
<p>What is the general range of your grades and test scores? Do you have a couple of teachers, including at least one of your double bass teachers, who will write a good letter of recommendation for you?</p>
<p>Are there any artists or teachers whose sound you particularly like or particularly dislike? If so, who and why?</p>
<p>If you have any questions about music at Chicago, let me know because I am a student there are also play double-bass.</p>
<p>sorry im taking so long to answer, bassdad and cosmos
as soon as i get home/have time, i will</p>
<p>University of Boston
Carnegie Mellon
Miami University(OH</p>
<p>These schools, youre going to have to have done pretty well in High School before theyll accept you. The college of music may accept you, but the college has little sway in the Universities admission standards.</p>
<p>The only quality schools that will look at you are the Conservatory Programs: Manhattan, Julliard, Cincinnati College-Conservatory of Music, Eastman, Mannes, Boston Conservatory, New England Conservatory and some other similar programs.</p>
<p>I don't know how common our son's experience was, but he was accepted to two schools' music departments even though his GPA and test scores were low for them. I think you have to look at where in the pool of talent you lie at a certain school. If you think you are going to be at the top of their list compared to other musicians applying, they might be willing to overlook your grades.</p>