SAT may best correlate with parents IQ

Parent Cafe
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@JustOneDad I recall tables for randomly generating descriptions of potions and other magic items that contained at least one PSAT word. I recall there was at least one more word I knew from D&D, but couldn’t tell you where it occurred–maybe a monster description. However, the word “dormer” didn’t occur in AD&D to my knowledge, and so that was the word I missed (being from the land of California ranch-style homes).

I read a lot of science fiction, too. (I like that mathmom distinguishes between sci fi and science fiction.) I would say that much of science fiction requires active thought while reading to figure out the world in which things are happening. Good science fiction doesn’t start off by saying, “so the difference between this world and yours is that x and y have been invented” or “here is a diagram of the way the parts of the time loop interact in this novel.”

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IQ and SATs:
My kid, who barely saw a standardized test, got a 2280-2340? something like that and a ACT 35, scores roughly comparable, after a bit of bookwork. One of her classmates got a 2400, but he had been working on them since 7th grade. Now if SAT is some sort of IQ test, how come it correlates for most students with the ACT? How come it is so amenable to prep? What happens to kids whose parents don’t buy them books?

Gender and SATs:

When I took SATs back in the '60s, girls did better on reading and boys on math. Then they changed the test, and dah-dah, boys did better on both. I believe there have been SAT knock-offs/versions written that allow different ethnicities to rise to the top through emphasizing certain latinate words, urban settings, geographies, etc. It is endlessly morph-able to suit certain populations.

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Is it? The actual academic studies show a much smaller effect than the stories and claims lead you to believe.

@Ynotgo “Dormer” was a PSAT word?

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"In any case, doing practice tests are fine, but reading a ton from a young age is best for learning (for vocabulary, I recommend Dickens; translations of Dostoyevsky I’ve found have been fine too).
"

  • I soooo agree with this. There is NO way to prepare for the CR section in a short time. Avid readers will do well and those who are not so much into reading…well, they will not. This is actually the most important reason for the 'CUSTOMIZED" preparation plan. If one knows (like my D.) that reading is going to be the lowest score (by far in her case), then focus on preparing other sections. Actually, D. focused only one subject, that happened to be her strong subject - math. Her goal was to compensate predictable low reading score. It magically (or maybe not so magically), happened exactly as planned. She took both SAT and ACT only once and her scores (converted ACT was higher) was enough for several selective programs (at state publics). In ACT, the difference between her section best score (Emglish - 35) and (lowest) Reading score of 28 was wooping 7 points. What made a difference in total score was her math score that she prepared for. Her preparation took 1 hr / day for 5 days right before exam (total 5 hrs), doing math problems and going over every error. I was there to answer any question. Did I know all math material primarily from her middle school? Nope, but there are text books and Google, each is perfect to find any question very easily, but HS kids are not equipped much to use resource and they get frustrated quickly, that is where guiding hand of dedicated adult is essential.
    Could she actually prepare the Reading section? Yes, but it would take several years of planning. Slower reading actually served her well academically. Since it has never been a problem aside from taking the standardized tests, there was no reason to change her reading way. Later in her life she discovered that Reading would fall off from such testing and she did much better in her Medical Board testing than any previous in her life.
    Prepare, it will make a difference!!!
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Another data point. My oldest got 800 CR and was a huge reader - but of things like Harry Potter and the Redwall series, as well as some Sci Fi and Star Wars books. He also read newspaper and the old Newsweek, but much of his reading was really “comfort reading”. He did not spend any time on the classics, except as required for school. He went to States for the Geobee and was a huge Civ fan, but not sure we ever thought the two were connected. Certainly wasn’t studying geography facts however!

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Meant to write sci fi and fantasy. I’d say generally sci fi and fantasy is written at a fairly high reading level and features page turning plots. My kids read very very fast. Faster than I do.

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quote

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We must not forget that holistic admission also has an unsavory past.

Here is such a study:
http://nepc.colorado.edu/files/Briggs_Theeffectofadmissionstestpreparation.pdf

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@Canuckguy A “Draft” for Chance magazine?

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^^Here is a different study, but the result is the same:

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1745-3984.1999.tb00549.x/abstract

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Bcos scoring high on both requires raw brain processing power, which is related to ‘smarts’. SAT requires more reasoning; ACT requires more speed, but picks up its ver of reasoning in the so-called Science section…

Has either kid ever been tested for IQ? (If not, the anecdata is irrelevant.)

Umm, the library? (sorry, a bit snarky, but I’d guess that the world of cc and prep is much different than the ROW.)

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I’m not questioning it; the results are basically in line with what I know to be true. It was just an odd version.

People get very accustomed to the personal anecdotes which are a lot more exciting (and promising) than the actual truth.

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Prepping the summer before you take the SAT is not what we are talking about here. We are talking about prep that starts in pre-K to get into the “right” kindergarten and continues every year. By the time the SAT rolls around these kids are very used to standardized tests.

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that’s the thing, it doesn’t much matter when they start: someone with a 90 IQ could start in utero and they could not clear 2300. Not gonna happen.

But also think about the correlation thing: how many of those that start prepping in middle school continue on to junior/senior year? (Only the strong will survive.) Eventually, many of those average students will start earning average grades and the 'rents will recognize that elite college is out, so…

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Deborah Solomon (New York Times): “I believe that given the opportunity, most people could do most anything.”

Charles Murray: “You’re out of touch with reality in that regard.”

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Why to discuss "someone with a 90 IQ " Is this person going to attend a 4 year college? “Not gonna happen”!!!
Are we going to include a jungle living tribal population in connection to attending a 4 year college in the USA? I sugggest to to focus on the "real life " college applicants and not imaginary ones. On the other hand, I have no idea why IQ is discussed here at all. It is apparent to me that those who mentioned IQ in connection to SAT / ACT testing, have never looked at either of these very basic, low level exams, they have no idea. I have, I participated in my D’s preparation and was shocked by the low level of academic content that mostly has to do with middle school academic material.

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The President’s public policy is that all kids should be prepared to go to college.

Well maybe that’s bcos its the title of the thread.

Seriously, miami, are you that clairvoyant? :neutral_face:

btw: was your D ever tested for IQ in school, such as for a Gifted program?

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Right. That’s how it works. The actual knowledge content of the SAT is relatively small. In many cases, the student is even given most basic information. If you will notice, most of the mental work is done in analyzing it and putting it together to arrive at an answer. They are relatively sophisticated tests.

You will even see students bring SAT questions to this forum who know the answer and still can’t figure out why it is.

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Miami, as usual you neglected to read the original post of this thread. At least read the linked article first before you blindly jump in and post so that you have a clue what the discussion is about.

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Inasmuch as all the discussions about IQ, and especially IQ of 90 preparing for the SAT, are interesting and perhaps entertaining, most of it seem grounded in generalities that are quite distant from the “discovery” of Murray.

If one can easily agree that various of intelligence or, if you prefer, pragmatic smarts that take the form of reasoning, end up playing an important role in the SAT scores, are we still in agreement that the correlation between SAT scores is with … the mother’s IQ? I assume that with the upcoming release on March 30 of the exact text, some might want to read the “research” to redefine their conclusions, and especially after looking into the data used to establish the correlation.

As far as the preparation versus brute IQ (or aptitude, my own conclusions based on a reasonable amount of data is that most people are UNDERSCORING their natural abilities. While an adequate preparation cannot extract blood from a turnip, it can help a student reach the highest level of his or her own abilities.

It is also good to remember that the preparation for the SAT differs greatly among participants. Some students can do extremely well after simply getting familiar with the format of the test, and especially if they have some history with testing (think AOPS or years of having to submit to the ERB ordeals) or are avid readers and puzzle solvers. Others benefit from the repetition brought by a heavy dose of practices.

The real question remains … what is there to be done if the SAT or its bastard cousins tests do really correlate to wealth, income, IQ from the mother, or the cost of pets in the household? Do we need to abolish the test that “confirm” or “underscore” the great inequalities in our education system? Do we really need more wasted inks to know that the rich, the smart, the intelligent, and the lucky attain higher level of education or SES than their poorer fellows?

Do we really need people like Murray, who has flip-flopped his positions depending on the conclusions he wants to reach at the time, to muddy the waters with findings that border on the inconvenient or obscene?

What we need is for people to develop solutions that have a chance to work. And, fwiw, since we can’t pick our mothers, and since it is seems that having a decent level of education throughout the US remains a pipe dream, the low hanging fruit is none other than … preparing for the tests and stop complaining about it.