<p>Hi,
I was wondering if anyone has a child that will be doing any SAT optional choices with their applications? One of my daughters has lopsided scores which makes it hard for her, does she submit and let them see her low math score and much higher verbal or does she hide it? She's retaking one more time this month, but I don't expect a huge change, she just can't get through the 4 hours without tiring and anxiety now is making it worse.
She did well on essays, 11 and 12's but math and even English on the ACT wasn't up to par.
She has good grades, GPA, AP scores (4's and 5) and is taking a college course (no grade yet of course)
If she decides to apply to a women's college (Mt. Holyoke/Bryn Mawr) she will do optional, she is doing optional to H.Cross and debating on a few others. We looked into merit aid with optional choice and also how many submit/don't submit in older SAT optional schools which helps a bit. The whole idea of SAT optional is to see the student in a more holistic way, they know if you don't submit you aren't hiding a 700, but I am trying to see from reading/writing, who walks the walk and who doesn't.
Does anyone have any experience with going optional?</p>
<p>We’re doing it for a couple of schools, for similar reasons as your own. Keeping our fingers crossed that it really will work out!</p>
<p>Why not report the AP scores? One of the SAT “options” is to submit AP/IB scores instead of the SAT. </p>
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<p>“The whole idea of SAT optional is to see the student in a more holistic way”</p>
<p>Not sure I buy this - - since many of the optonal schools require submission of SAT (or other standardized tests) for merit scholarships. Also, “holistic” in this context just mean putting more weight on grades (the common data sets indicate that the recs and ECs are “considered” but schools rarely rated “important,” much less “very important”).</p>
<p>And, while SATs aren’t particularly predictive, neither are grades. As one poster noted on the thread about private schools, b/c of grade inflation there are lots of kids with weighted 4.0+ GPAs and average SATs. SATs and grades together predict college success more accurately that either measure does individually.</p>
<p>I think schools are going optional primarily to increase their applicant pools (and ultimately to fill the seats).</p>
<p>S did the SAT-optional route applying to the school where he ended up, which was his first choice. (He had to submit a project, instead.) He didn’t do well on the ACT, either – just not a real strong standardized test taker. It worked for him.</p>
<p>Info is old, but my D was accepted to both schools (Bryn Mawr wasn’t optional then) and received leadership awards from both schools. </p>
<p>She liked the school, even though she had SAT scores above their 75th percentile, and did optional to see if Mt. Holyoke really was putting their money where their mouth was as far as being SAT optional. She , turned in a graded paper with comments from her AP english class. She did demonstrate interest at both schools; visting and sitting in on a class, attending events that she was invited t when they were here in the city, and interviewed at both schools when extended an invitation to interview. It worked for her, although she decided to go elsewhere.</p>
<p>Can you give us an idea of the scores (or score range)? Those math scores might not be as weak as you think – the highest my daughter ever did on a math test was 580 on the SAT and 23 on the ACT. She’s at Barnard. I don’t think her math scores were ever an issue. The college ad coms were looking at her strengths and she wrote a great essay about her affinity for language. It’s not at all uncommon for students to have lopsided scores.</p>
<p>I realize a lot of schools do want more apps, but some really do seem to be more holistic. I agree, some optional schools wanting a laundry list of other things is a little much, but they have the right to ask for what they want. She will submit her AP’s which I hope show she learned the work and the grades weren’t just fluff. I hope they both do okay in their college class although it’s not easy (not much was available after 1)
She got 500, although she got 550 on her practice test, that dropped in the real one. Her writing was 650 and her other score was 580 I think. She is re-taking this month, both tests because she was sick and missed one last Spring.
I know Drew is good with test optional and many students have told me women’s colleges are also “walking the walk” but some others I am ambiguous about. Stonehill has most submit and say they like to see them…then why have optional? Providence says under 550 don’t submit, but didn’t address lopsided scores. I find I either get a wonderful reply stating, “Of course merit is addressed, we don’t deny optional submissions awards” to “No, you must submit” or no answer at all. I am trying to keep a list and find an old bookmark from CC listing many who did.
We found merit to be there for some, not for others.</p>
<p>OK, honest opinion here: based on that profile, I would advise NOT submitting scores to test-optional schools like Mt. Holyoke & Bryn Mawr. (unless, of course, she does substantially better on retake). My thinking is that they are not lopsided enough – that is, the highest score, 650 on the writing – is not high enough to impress. So you have everything to lose but nothing to gain with those scores.</p>
<p>My daughter didn’t have the same choices – none of her schools were test optional – and her lopsidedness was more pronounced on the high end. She scores well over 700 on SAT writing and I think 30 or 31 on the English composite part of the ACT exams. </p>
<p>Please don’t take this as negative – I’m only trying to give you an objective take. I have a dim view of standardized test scores in general – I think the format can often penalize students who overthink the questions or just like to mull things over. The emphasis is on speed and the ability to spit back the conventional “right” answer rather than the ability to think independently.</p>
<p>If you look at percentile rankings for scores you may see what I am getting at in terms of your daughter’s scores. I think if a student’s scores tell a story that says “very strong” or “exceptional” in one area, and “kind of weak” or “average” in another area – its useful to let the ad com see that strength, especially if it coincides with stated academic goals. Your daughter’s lopsidedness is more between “reasonably good” and “weak”. </p>
<p>I would note that I think that the AP scores and writing scores are far more predictive of academic success. I am sure that my daughter entered Barnard in the bottom 25% as far as test scores, but she will graduate in the top 10% of her class. Like yours, all her AP scores were 4’s & 5’s – she was an “AP Scholar with Distinction” or something (whatever they give for having approx. 5 AP scores at 4+). College level work requires the an ability to analyze information and write about it in a way that is tested fairly well in the essay portions of the AP exam – that is, the essay the student writes on the AP lit exam is a lot closer to what is expected in college than the multiple-choice format of the SAT’s. So if your daughter does well on those exams, you can be confident that she will do fine at college even if her SAT scores are below the norm for that college.</p>
<p>Another suggestion for the test-optional schools: some colleges do welcome supplemental material with applications. For example, my daughter was a dancer and enjoyed choreography – even though she did not plan to major in dance, she included a very short DVD with excerpts of a couple of dances she had choreographed to the few colleges that would allow the submissions. (I think only Barnard and Chicago were open to supplemental material)</p>
<p>When my son was applying to colleges 9 years ago, he applied to several LAC’s that wanted graded writing samples. I think that with the advent of SAT writing, that practice may have fallen by the wayside, but my daughter assumed all through high school that the same would be required of her, so she kept a folder with her best writing assignments from school. Of course, none of the colleges wanted to see it – but she applied EA to Chicago and was deferred, and did submit one of her graded writing samples along with a 2nd essay to supplement her application after the deferral-- and she did get accepted in the spring. Of course Chicago is a school that clearly values a student’s writing ability – but the point is, the essays or writing sample may be a better way to demonstrate that ability than a test score.</p>
<p>I do agree with what you said, and she has saved most of her papers online, (her AP Lit teacher emailed a lot of grades/papers) and she has her rec. She is slightly ADD, but can do okay without help in a regular school setting, she compensates and it works for her most of the time. I think she will bring her writing up and although the essay isn’t considered important, she gets high scores on them. I feel bad that she feels like a “number” but I told her I know she will do fine and find her niche somewhere. I also hope that her anxiety will be lessened knowing she can apply some places without the scores and maybe can relax and get through it okay.
She never considered submitting to Mt. Holyoke, but has been getting interesting mail and is considering applying. I think she would have to visit to know for sure…her sister says “coed” if I try to bring it up. : )
Thank you again for all the insight and examples, it helped.</p>
<p>I agree - - don’t submit the scores. As schools go test optional, the average scores submitted increase (b/c applicants don’t submit lower scores). For the women’s colleges 500M and 580CR were a bit low, even before the school went optiona - - and 500/580 is not particularly lopsided. Friend’s D with what what were considered “average” scores (550M and 680CR) was admitted to Smith before it went SAT optional.</p>
<p>I also agree that: the APs are better predictors than the SAT and strong AP scores will underscore the rigor of her hs curric. But as I said in my earlier post, some optional schools require SAT for merit scholarship.</p>
<p>Yes, I am making a list of those that don’t include merit and wont have her apply, if need-based is not good.
Her ACT was more lopsided than the SAT, she did very well on the English/Writing and essay, but not the math.
She has a friend who got into Yale with 1800 and had very lopsided SAT (not a math person) and is doing well, her strong writing helped a lot and her study skills from always working hard…it doesn’t always work out that way, but sometimes you really aren’t a number.</p>
<p>You’re never really a number - - but in some circumstances (college admissions, credit scores) the folks making the decisions rely heavily on numbers. C’est la vie.</p>
<p>The women’s colleges (and other top LACs) meet 100% of need, but the “second-tier” SAT optional schools I’ve looked at all tend to “gap.”</p>
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She might consider submitting the ACT then – but I’m confused because in your first post you wrote, “even English on the ACT wasn’t up to par.” Were any of the subscores 30 +?</p>
<p>I think her English was 30 or 31 or combined English/Writing, but math was 23. She was hoping to get higher because you have to do well overall for the composite to go up. I realize that isn’t very well for most, she was just glad to get that considering she had trouble finishing a section. She was mainly proud of the least acknowledged part, the essay.</p>
<p>I’m applying to several test-optional schools (Union, Holyoke, etc), but I will be submitting scores
Good friend is applying to Sarah Lawrence, Holyoke, and Pitzer-will not be submiting scores
we’ll see</p>
<p>
. That’s pretty much what my daughter’s scores was. I think she had a 28 composite. I thought the 31 was great, so we were pretty happy to submit those scores. (As noted before, none of her schools were test-optional, but of course she did have the option to choose to submit ACT rather than SAT).</p>
<p>Assuming your daughter has grades to support admissions to those schools, I would not submit those scores. I do want you to know that it’s important to show interest in the women’s colleges. They want young women who want to be there. (Doesn’t every school? But really, the people I know who’ve attended have gone out of their way to demonstrate interest.)</p>
<p>I agree, re the interest, but I think with many students, visiting a women’s college helps you decide better than just looking at viewbooks and websites. I think admissions knows for many young women, it isn’t a first choice, but I’ve read of many who changed their minds and love it once they attend.</p>
<p>I think interest in some colleges is very important also, although visiting certain areas is hard for us. My girls have guys that are friends and always have and think they would miss that interaction, which is different, for better or worse, than just female. The calibur of women and the education at these colleges is superb though and very attractive.
After October, we will have a better idea what to do, but at least 2 colleges, maybe 3 will be optional. If she does well in her college class, which is at a good college, that might help also.
I think as time goes on, it will be interesting to see how “optional” fares with admissions with the newer colleges to the fray.</p>
<p>My D didn’t do as well as she had expected on the SAT (especially the math), based on her practice tests. With the exception of Clark and several state schools, she will be applying to SAT optional schools only and not submitting her scores.</p>