<p>Hi, I know a lot of parents on this site are in the process of admission with their children, but I wonder if anyone has had any experience with SAT optional vs scores and acceptance?
I have twins who want to take the SAT/ACT test, but I am also seeing a few of the colleges they are interested in, are SAT optional (either newly or long-standing) I always felt my son's scores were not indicitive on his grades and although some schools seemed to see that in their awards, others did not.
I have heard of a few parents that got an average of 15-20.000 for sat optional aid without submittting and their children were A students with AP and IB courses. I realize though that could be the exception.
My neighbor taught at Bates and said if my girls could stand the cold (they aren't winter lovers) they are very good at seeing the student holistically and she always urges them to at least give it a shot. They have been strong students but like their brother, tend to fade with long tests but do well when it is broken up. (maybe the sat ll's will be better)
I just wondered if anyone had experience with acceptance/aid if they did apply to an optional college. Thanks for any information.</p>
<p>Many schools that are test-optional for admissions still require test scores for merit aid. Check each website to make sure of the requirements.</p>
<p>For admissions purposes, I believe colleges when they say they're test optional. They generally have some other requirement, like a graded writing sample, by which they can judge the student's ability.</p>
<p>There are schools that stick to a chart using both gpa, and standardized scores for merit awards. Other schools seem to award money without standardized test scores. Some don't really explain how the money is awarded. On the one hand, some very good students just do not do well on standardized tests. On the other hand, I do see standardized tests as a way of equalizing grades from differents high schools. The reality is that an A in one HS might be a C+ in another. I cannot see how test optional schools can give merit award money to their students fairly, but this JMO. Some seem to be doing it. I would be very interesting in knowing how the student with a 3.3 does with merit awards at a 2nd or 3rd tier if he/she does not submit standardized test scores. It would be easy to just blindly say all high schools are equal and award money to students with a 4.3 gpa. What happens to the 3.0-3.5 student at a tier 2 or tier 3? Is anyone out there who has first hand experience?</p>
<p>I understand A's can be different, but sometimes they "know" the school and the rigor. Also if you do well in an AP class or IB class, it shows you can do the work. I think graded papers ( more than one should be submitted) can help along with recs and essays.
I also feel that if a school is SAT optional, they should disclose merit/financial aid information readily on the site. I don't see that all the time. If you aren't going to give merit aid, say so.</p>
<p>I was pleased to see that Drew gave a couple of people very good aid (more than my sons) without SAT's. Wish I did that now ; ) My son knows one of them and they are A students there, so I guess it worked for him.
I know my neighbor from Bates said it works well for them, but they have been doing it a long time.</p>
<p>First of all let me say that I love this thread. </p>
<p>D is currently very "in love" with Bates. She doesn't even want to hear about another school. Hard to get her to consider that she might not get in. She's applying ED. </p>
<p>I've been concerned about the fact that she is one of those student's that does well in class (A's for the most part) but not well on the tests. We have been considering not submitting them. She's still trying to decide but is going to take the ACTs to see if her score is "better". </p>
<p>Our HS doesn't weight grades or ranking. I checked with the GC and there has been no one who had applied to Bates in the 6 years since she has been there. It's a large school too -- typical graduating class is 600-650. </p>
<p>With no one having applied in the last 6 years can we be sure that they understand the HS and the rigor of the program that she is taking? She is an IB student - full diploma.</p>
<p>debruns, many schools do not consider rigor of a high school when awarding merit aid. Perhaps some do, and do not advertise this, but I know of a few schools who use charts. The schools that I am aware of that use charts designed them so that one must have a certain gpa, and a certain SAT/ACT score on the chart to receive merit aid. The colleges that I know that use charts do not look at a student with a gpa of a 3.5 from a top 20 HS within a state, or the country for that matter, differently than a 3.5 from a poor performing HS where only 30% of graduates go onto a 4 year college. This is where a standardized test can equalize things for the applicant, IMO.</p>
<p>Rochestermom, I cross posted with you. I think that most admissions counselors familiarize themselves with the various high schools in the area that they recruit or receive apps. from for the purpose of admission. At least I'd like to believe that is the case!</p>
<p>Thanks northeastmom. I think you are right about the admissions counselors familiarizing themselves with HS that htey recruit from or recieve apps from. Hopefully even though they haven't had anyone apply from our school is at least 6 years (no knowledge before that) they will look into the way our school does things. I don't even know if Bates has merit scholarships. We haven't seen anything on the website. I assumed is was need based only.</p>
<p>I really do think that the admissions counselor will research the HS your daughter attends. Each admissions counselor is assigned their territory to cover, and I think that is done in part so that they can become familiar with the overwhelming number of different high schools. I hope that I am right! Good luck to your daughter!</p>
<p>Rochestermom, when I asked about colleges that students hadn't gone too or rarely did, my son's GC told me colleges actually like that...they got one from a different area. I'm sure they can look into it and from her recs/rigor of courses, see a good picture of your daughter.
My neighbor loves the school, HATES the cold. : P It really is a nice school and if she loves it, I hope (fingers crossed) she gets in. Make sure she mentions how much she loves it. As this professor said, you can see students flounder every year, but what it is, is usually not their past SAT scores, it's drinking, partying and not knowing how to manage their time. That transends everyone, not just test-takers.</p>
<p>FYI:</p>
<p>New SAT Score-Reporting Policy</p>
<p>The College Board has approved an important change to the current SAT score-reporting policy. This new policy will give students the freedom to send the scores by sitting (test date) that they feel best represent their ability to colleges and universities, at no additional cost. Designed to reduce student stress and improve the test-day experience, this new score-reporting feature will launch in early February 2009, and will therefore be available to students participating in the March 2009 test administration. </p>
<p>Any student who has taken an SAT prior to the policy launch or who registers for the SAT after launch will be able to take advantage of this new policy. The students who have taken tests prior to the launch can use the score-reporting feature retroactively. Additionally, this new score-reporting feature will be optional to students. If a student chooses not to select their scores, all of their scores will be sent. </p>
<p>This new score-reporting feature also gives colleges the ability to choose which scores are required for admission. Colleges and universities will communicate any changes to their admissions policies or application requirements to students. </p>
<p>Fast facts
Students will be able to select which scores they send to colleges by sitting (test date) for the SAT and by individual test for SAT Subject Tests™.
Scores from an entire SAT test will be sent—scores of individual sections from different sittings cannot be selected independently for sending.
Students can send any or all scores to a college on a single report—it will not cost more to send one, multiple or all test scores.
Students will be instructed to follow the different score-reporting requirements of each college to which they apply.
The new score-reporting feature will be optional—if students do not use it, all scores will be sent automatically.
The score-reporting feature can be used on any score report that students send:
The four score reports available through online or phone registration (applying to already scored tests) and additional score reports
The new score-reporting feature functionality will be available to all students via the Web or by calling Customer Service toll free (within the United States)
Students who complete a test prior to the launch of the new score-reporting feature will be able to take advantage of this option when sending past or future scores.
FAQs
Q: Will this new score-reporting feature be available to students who have already registered for test dates that occur after launch?<br>
A: Yes. Students who have already registered for the March 2009 administration or later 2009 dates can revisit their registration information and take advantage of the new score-reporting feature after launch. </p>
<p>Q: Is the new score-reporting feature available for both SAT and SAT Subject Tests score reports?
A: Yes. Students will be able to select which scores they send to colleges by sitting (test date) for the SAT and by individual test for SAT Subject Tests. </p>
<p>Q: Does the new score-reporting feature affect other aspects of SAT registration and score-report timing, policies or processes?
A: No. The new score-reporting feature allows students to select which scores are sent to institutions. It does not affect score-report timing or other policies and procedures that are not directly related to sending score reports. </p>
<p>Information taken from ::</a> College Planning Made Easy | Inside Source for College Admissions Requirements</p>
<p>RochesterMom, if your d is taking a full IB program, I don't think you need to worry. Most colleges know how rigorous that is!</p>
<p>This shows how different each school can be:</p>
<p>In the Spring of 1996, the Muhlenberg faculty and Board of Trustees voted to make the SAT and ACT an optional part of the admissions process on a five-year experimental basis. Students choosing not to submit the SAT or ACT are required instead to complete an SAT-optional supplement and to provide a graded paper with the teacher's grade and comments on it. Such students also are required to interview with a member of the Admission staff. Students wishing to be considered for non-need merit awards and/or honors programs at Muhlenberg, as well as our various cooperative programs with other institutions, must submit the results of the SAT or ACT testing. Additional details regarding Muhlenberg's optional standardized testing policy are available from the Office of Admission and are included in each application packet. </p>
<p>Drew:
I don't submit standardized test scores to Drew and instead submit a graded paper, can I still be considered for merit scholarships?</p>
<p>Yes. All applicants are considered for merit scholarships regardless of which—standardized test scores or a graded paper—they submit for admission consideration. Furthermore, the Admissions Committee does not prefer one medium over the other.</p>
<p>What qualifies as a graded paper?</p>
<p>The graded paper must be a graded writing sample from your junior or senior year.</p>
<p>The sample must be analytical or critical in nature and not a mere summary. It should demonstrate your ability to communicate complex ideas and opinions, and to write effective, well-supported arguments. Examples of such samples may include: an analysis of a book, a work of art, or a literary style; a position paper in which you argue for or against a policy or idea; a research project from a natural or social science course.</p>
<p>If you plan to major in the natural, physical, or biological sciences (and choose to submit a graded paper in place of SAT scores), you are asked to submit a graded paper that pertains to your scientific area of interest.</p>
<p>Providence:
Providence College's Test-Optional Policy does apply to the review for merit scholarships and the Liberal Arts Honors Program. If candidates feel their test scores provide further evidence of academic ability and potential, they may wish to submit them to the Office of Admission.
Goucher:
Goucher awards Global Citizen Scholarships to students who have demonstrated academic promise through their secondary school achievements and college admissions tests. These awards may be maintained through all four years of college (eight semesters) by maintaining a Goucher GPA of at least 3.00. Depending upon each student’s eligibility, the Global Citizen Scholarship will be offered at levels between $10,000 and $15,000. There is no additional application procedure for Global Citizens Scholarship consideration. However, students must submit SAT Reasoning Test or ACT scores to be considered; these scores will not be used to determine admission, if the student has made this preference clear on the admissions application.</p>
<p>Others like Denison, Holy Cross, Bowdoin etc. said to call. Some alluded to looking at the grades and other components but didn't elaborate but didn't say it was soley based on test scores. I will look more in the future.</p>
<p>debruns, thanks for looking some of this up. Here are 3 more test optional schools and what they say with respect to merit scholarships:</p>
<p>Lake Forest-IL
Lake Forest College is proud to offer the Trustee, Presidential, Phi Theta Kappa, Dean’s and Deerpath academic scholarships, which recognize academic achievement and excellence. Academic scholarships are offered at the time of admission, and do not require an additional application. Awards are based on the application for admission, challenging curriculum, recommendations, and standardized test scores (if submitted). </p>
<p>Nazareth College-Rochester NY</p>
<p>Merit Scholarships are based on an exceptionally strong academic record and substantial extracurricular involvement and community service.
The size and scope of the applicant pool is also taken into account. Need is not a factor in consideration for these awards.
Recipients of these awards are selected, at the time of admission, by the Admissions Committee. No separate application is necessary except for Heritage Scholarships - see below.
Award levels and the standards for scholarship retention apply to first time recipients, Fall 2008 onward. </p>
<p>Stonehill College- MA
Most of Stonehill's institutional funding is awarded on the basis of academic performance and demonstrated financial need. A very limited amount is available for small scholarships based solely on merit and awarded in recognition of exceptional academic performance. However, a financial aid application is required for initial consideration and renewal of all institutional funds.</p>
<p>Every student who provides a complete financial aid application is offered self-help assistance in the form of a Federal Direct Student Loan and, possibly, work-study.</p>
<p>In determining aid packages for freshmen, Stonehill awards institutional aid on the basis of relative academic performance and demonstrated financial need. To determine a student's need for the purpose of awarding its own funding, the College uses an institutional methodology rather than the limited federal methodology available through the Free Application for Federal Student Aid (FAFSA). The FAFSA is used to determine eligibility for government funds only.</p>
<p>Stonehill attempts to meet a student's financial need with institutional and government resources. Because sufficient resources are not always available to meet 100% of every student's need, there is considerable competition for funds. Priority is given to students who demonstrate exceptional need and perform at outstanding academic levels.</p>
<p>Freshman applicants are awarded financial aid based on the information they provide on the FAFSA and PROFILE forms. All award values are conditional, subject to full and complete verification of the financial aid application. If the information originally provided must be changed, adjustments will be made to the applicant's file, which could result in a decrease of the aid listed on the Financial Aid Letter.</p>
<p>All scholarships require full-time attendance and are awarded per semester.</p>
<p>Adding one more...daughters friend goes to WPI:
Office</a> of Undergraduate Admissions - Scholarships</p>
<p>They call "Flex Path" the sat optional term for scholarships which they seem to be going to consider. (First year for them.)</p>
<p>Franklin & Marshall:
Students choosing the Standardized Test Option will be required to submit two recent (junior or senior year) graded writing samples (creative or analytical), preferably from a Humanities or social science course. The samples should include teachers’ comments, grades, and a description of the assignment. </p>
<p>Students may request that their high school delete their scores from their transcript. All transcripts for students choosing this option will be examined prior to their inclusion in the application folders, and any scores that are included will be deleted before the applications are reviewed by the Admission Committee.</p>
<p>To choose this option, an applicant must complete the appropriate form which is part of the application, or is sent to the applicant upon receipt of the Common Application. Click here to access the Standardized Test Option Form.</p>
<p>If you look at the SAT optional form, it does say that you would be considered for merit scholarships also.</p>
<p>Just an FYI....I got a response from Smith College today, you are considered for merit without scores....they felt it was a lame point to not take them and then say your grades/papers were not enough.
That was nice of them to say.</p>
<p>Re: post #14 -- S was just accepted EA to WPI yesterday. He did not submit scores; used their Flex Path application instead, sending 2 projects. However, he was not applying for FA.</p>
<p>That's great, my D's friend is a freshman and having a lot of fun and working hard.</p>