<p>I don't know where else to post this -- and I am having trouble getting info. in person. My son's 3rd attempt at the SAT - to improve math score -- verbal is fine -- his score went down! Very disappointing. Should we:</p>
<p>Write to everyone (MOC's, academies, rotc reps) and say - I was disappointed to learn my SAT score for math did not go up - but I am not giving up and am scheduled to take it again in Dec. (and then tutor, study, crazy til then -- football season will be over which allows more time too)</p>
<p>of</p>
<p>Take what we have in SAT and go take the ACT. See if he does better on that. </p>
<p>I might as well say -- the SAT was LOW -- 510. He knows the math - he knows he can do it, but it just doesn't come out that way, and it has always been that way for standardized tests. He is a good student -- not 4.0 but close, 5 varsity letters, lots of leadership and comm. service -- has been working all his high school career for this. </p>
<p>Should we talk to the BGO or the Admissions office at WP and just say - hey -- i am trying as hard as i can. I don't give up. </p>
<p>Or should we go with what we have and let the chips fall where they may. </p>
<p>Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. We go to a small school and the tutor he used for the SAT prep when his score DID go up is unavailable now. I have no more money and very little time to figure out what to do and go in that direction. So Kaplan or one of those is out. I have math tutors for him, but I need to figure out if he should even try again. Or bag that and go check out the ACT book from the library.</p>
<p>My son does not know about this - he has a game today and I thought if I could gather some info we could all sit and figure out what he wants to do tomorrow -- no sense getting him upset before an away game when he can't do anything anyway.</p>
<p>If he were my son I would have him take the ACT test for sure. Many students do better on one test than the other. Make sure he signs up for it before the deadline and purchase the practice book and tests. I understand he is an athlete, but this is crunch time...he needs to focus on this issue. I would also have him retake the SAT. Student's scores can fluctuate a great deal from one test to another. Both USMA and USNA take the highest scores in each subject for each test. He has nothing to lose at this point. But he really needs to create the time to study the subject and take all of the practice tests he can find. I suggest you go onto the SAT and ACT websites for more study guide information.</p>
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Or should we go with what we have and let the chips fall where they may
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<p>If his Math was even in the low 600's and he is a good athlete with a complete package you might have a shot with that approach but at a 510 I think the odds of an appointment are diminished. As Patrish said he should take the ACT, and take the SATs again. </p>
<p>I believe I read a post here that said you can show up the day of the test and pay a premium to test as a walk on...I'd confirm that if possible. There is one coming up on November 1st and then December 6th. You should still be able to reserve normally for the December 6th test. </p>
<p>My son (#2) used both the online test tutors as well as the work books, he started with a 500 in math the middle of his junior year and decided to get serious about studying for it, doing practice exams and problems. Over the past 9 months he went through 3 work books along with the online tutor, must have completed at least a dozen practice tests, some he timed, some he just used for problem exposure. He took it again last spring and brought it up to a 600. He just took the test for the 3rd time this fall and brought it up to a 700. Along with his improvement in Verbal he added over 300 points to his Math/Verbal from his first to his last test scores. He can do it. </p>
<p>As far as football season goes, I would not hesitate to sit down with him and his coach and discuss the situation. There are very few days/hours left between now and his last shot at testing. If he plays at a level that would interest the coach of a Div I program and possible net him an appointment or scholarship he may not want to compromise his season. If that is not the case I would try and find a way to balance what little time is left on the field with more time to study and prepare for his next test. </p>
<p>Thank you for your honesty - both of you. We will have a "come to Jesus" meeting tomorrow and see what is what. I know he can do it if he wants it bad enough. I think he does, but maybe not. If anyone else has any help - I am so appreciative to this board!!</p>
<p>I was told by a coach that he had three football players in NAPS and they all had 1200 SAT's! So anything below that is not a sure thing by any means. :eek:</p>
<p>It appears your son's credentials are strong with the exception of his Math SAT. </p>
<p>Given the importance of improving his SAT score, has his time allocation reflected this importance? Does he put as much time into preping for the SAT as he does practicing for football? While playing football may be more fun/rewarding for him (and you), another varsity letter in football won't make up for the Math SAT shortfall.</p>
<p>The thought of practicing an hour or more a day, every day, for the Math SAT may sound extreme. But not if you believe it could make the difference between getting an acceptance to USMA. If his football schedule doesn't afford him the time to put into SAT prep, then, as hard as it would be, maybe football needs to be sacrificed. </p>
<p>Part of it comes down to how serious he is about going to West Point.</p>
<p>Jon David - your son could be a perfect candidate for USMAPS or NAPS!
Don't give up yet.<br>
Remember the other day when you posted that the RAO for West Point asked if he would consider West Point prep?<br>
You have your answer - his SAT's are probably too low - at least right now - for a direct appointment.
For the most part, USMAPS and NAPS are for candidates who are not competitive (usually academically) for a direct appointment. If this opportunity is made available to your son he should strongly consider it.</p>
<p>If he can - have him take the ACT and the SAT again. I know a plebe at West Point who took the SAT's 6 times and the ACT's 2 times.</p>
<p>Thanks Justamom, aspen and boss -- I will show him these responses when we talk so he knows that anecdotally (sp??) it can be done. I don't think he would have to give up football since there are only 3 weeks left, but he does jiu jitsu 2 nights a week and is a maniac about his workouts (gym in our garage) the other 2 nights a week and so, by the time he is done showering, eating, etc., it is often 9 or 10 before he hits homework. Since he must continue homework of course, he will have to give up jiu jitsu and workouts and lazy Sat. mornings. If he applies the energy he gives to his physical fitness to studying for these tests, I know he can do it. But, it must be his decision. Thanks for everyone's input.</p>
<p>And yes- we are going to tell the USMA admissions guy that - while his first desire is to go into USMA directly, what he really wants is to be a leader and an officer in the United States Armed Forces, and if USMA thinks he should go to the prep school first, he will be happy to consider that option. -- and maybe that is God's way of showing us where he needs to be anyway?</p>
<p>JonDavid: by showing he is open to prep, your son demonstrates a necessary characteristic: flexibility. I look forward to following his journey over the next few months and seeing how it turns out!</p>
<p>I would say "don't give up". If this is your son's toughest challenge on the way to graduation from West Point, he'll be lucky. Here are a few suggestions:</p>
<p>Most definitely do whatever it takes to prep for the exams. Yes, exams. Both the ACT and the SAT. Take them each time they are offered. If he decides to focus on just the SAT, then he just has to prep for the Math portion. A tutor is a great idea, just make sure it is somebody who has a proven track record in helping students increase their math scores.</p>
<p>Remember, USMAPS appointments and civil prep scholarships are not easy to come by. And even though they add a year to college, they are great opportunities.</p>
<p>I bought a strategy book called Up Your Score. My kids did significantly better after reading it and applying the principles. It's an easy read, written in teen vernacular.</p>
<p>Thanks so much to everyone who responded! I can't believe how wonderful everyone is on this board!! We had the big meeting with our son and he wants to go at it again --- re-taking the SAT in Dec. and also to take the ACT in Dec. as well. He has decided - since football is almost done, that he will take the 2 hours each day that has been devoted to football and devote it to working on prep. Unfortunately everyone -- USNA, USMA, ROTC and all the MOC's have been sent his scores. So, they will see how low he is. Should he write to each office and tell them he was disappointed he did not perform as well as he could have and that he has a plan of attack and will re-take in Dec.? I am worried that MOC's will decide whether or not to give him an interview based on his scores if they do not know he is taking them again. And if we should write, should he email or snail mail these letters. Phone calls are difficult because he is in school all day and it is hard to call the offices when they are open. Any thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated.</p>
<p>I hate to throw cold water on all the love, but . . .
Given that many MOCs are conducting their interviews during this month, your intentions may be to no avail.
I suppose there is no harm in writing to explain your circumstances. You should understand, however, that such stories of why [fill in the blank] one did not do their best are, to say the least, a common. Others seems to handle the demands made upon them.
For example, I know of at least one [I am sure there are many] varsity football player [large school w/ a big-time football program] with over a 1500 who is a current applicant.
Significant jumps in the SAT score, at this late date and especially after three tries, seem to be an unrealistic expecation.</p>
<p>He will, most likely, be interviewed by MOC. They seem to interview everybody. But, I would not expect the "I can do better" line to be very influential.</p>
<p>Thanks for your honesty. He was not going to give excuses - I know there are many great candidates out there. Just to let them know he is not giving up - that's all. Trust me, we know there are smarter, better, whatever people out there. He is just trying to maximize his chances and it seems like he shouldn't throw in the towel now after 4 years of doing everything he could. Otherwise, why bother taking it again? Really - it's kind of unrealistic in the first place to even try for an academy in the first place! I mean really -- 1200 out of how many get in?? It's a long shot for all of them!</p>
<p>There are two philosophies regarding standardized tests like the SAT and ACT. You can study with the emphasis placed on increasing your knowledge and aptitude in a subject and/or you can study with the emphasis placed more on the test taking techniques necessary to improve your score. Ideally you want to blend the two approaches so you can hopefully get the best outcome. </p>
<p>The first; “knowledge/aptitude” takes more time and may involve studying the subject material as well as doing practice problems and entire tests. </p>
<p>The second approach involves an approach more along the line of “tips or tricks”. Things like skipping or saving problems you are stuck on and moving on to questions you can answer, making sure you read the question and not getting tripped up by questions where they play word games with “inclusive or exclusive terms”. This approach can be taught and applied more quickly. </p>
<p>To get a substantial improvement in your score I think you really need to focus on both approaches. </p>
<p>Getting a nomination from your MOC may be something of a challenge, depends on how competitive your region is and I would focus on your Congressman as I think a Senatorial would be a long shot. Also a lot of kids get into programs like USMAPS and NAPS every year, so it can be done. Out side of recruited athletes, kids with a good package (athletics, leadership etc) as well as high grades and poor SAT/ACT performance (or the reverse) have a shot. </p>
<p>Lastly, your son’s future will not be determined by what happens this year unless he allows it to be. If he does not get into an Academy he can apply again and/or fall back on another college program with ROTC. There are also colleges like VMI that offer a military college environment and programs at Universities like Virginia Tech and Texas A&M that have a Corps Cadet program that is “halfway in-between”.</p>
<p>You might, then, acknolwedge the low score, advise that you are still interested, and let the chips fall where they may. Anything else, quite frankly, does sound like an excuse.</p>
<p>I am curious though . . .and this is a general question, not so much directed at your particular circumstance.</p>
<p>If the SAT are an indicator of "scholastic aptitude" [and many will argue that it is not; but that's a different thread] and one works hard to improve their score, utilzing coaches, techniques, above suggestions, and whatever else the test-taker might use to imrpove their score . . . . is that person setting themself up for some hard times ahead?</p>
<p>That is, does a natural 1100 [well, let's say, 1000 since that is the "average" score] have a harder time keeping up and doing well in school than a natural 1500? Obviously there are exceptions, but does the 1000'er have to work harder to keep up? They obviously needed a lot of help/coaching to get their natural score up, so what will that person do when off on their own, dropped in the tank so to speak to swim with the sharks? In that regard, then, isn't working to improve your score [at least significantly] somewhat detrimental in the long run?</p>
<p>Bill510, I'm not sure you CAN ask that question w/out addressing the issue of whether SATs are an indicator of scholastic aptitude. Or without talking about 'exceptions.'
Seems SATs are the best tool now available to supplement/equalize schools' different grading techniques -- but not perfect. </p>
<p>My son's PSATs were so weak that USNA's response to his NASS app was, "No, and --while we usually open a USNA app for any NASS applicant, we're NOT doing that for you." Talk about discouraging. </p>
<p>He got SAT tutoring, but never quite got the scores the Academy likes to see, though he had a 4.0 @ a competitive h.s. and the rest of his app was outstanding. Thanks to his sainted BGO, and a great chance meeting w/ an admissions officer, he was sent to NAPS. He's now a 3/C @ USNA, in a varsity sport, Supe's list, w/ an OOM @ the top 15% of his class. </p>
<p>So, yes, I guess he's an exception, and yes, he works like a dog, but he always has, and most everyone @ the Academy puts in a lot of effort. I think someday we'll learn there's some kind of learning disability related to standardized tests, or maybe someone will develop an SAT alternative that better suits kids like mine. Meanwhile, he's grateful there was an alternate route to the Academy for him, and so far, seems to have a length on the sharks.</p>
<p>Which kid had to work harder to get their grades in HS? And from there, which kid graduates with the kind of skills and study habits necessary to get through college? The kid with the "natural ability" or the kid that had to work a little harder to perform well on tests? Once the kid with the natural ability gets into classes where they can no longer get by with "natural ability" or raw intelligence what do they fall back on? </p>
<p>If colleges are going to use a single test like the SAT or ACT as a "life determining" gateway, as far as I'm concerned a kid should use every tool at their disposal to increase their score. Once they pass that gate it's up to them to capitalize on the opportunity...or not...</p>
<p>Maybe I am not as "deep" as some of you smarter folks out there, but this is how I see it. Any time there are only a limited number of slots that a lot of people want, the powers that be, who decide who gets those slots must set up some sort of arbitrary selection system. At least for the first level of selection. Otherwise, there would be too many to peruse. I don't think my son is "dumb" or unable to cope with life because he is having trouble getting his score in math up. He gets mostly A's in a college prep. school and manages life quite fine. Some might even say he manages in an exceptional manner. However, there are hoops one must get thru in life, and at the moment this is his. Might be "fair", might be an "indicator", might not be. Doesn't matter. there are a lot of people fighting for only a few spots and if they don't put some sort of filter on the system at the beginning, they won't be able to narrow their choices down at the end. It just is what it is. Nothing less, nothing more. I don't want him to "trick" his way into taking a spot away from someone who is smarter than him, and if I raised him right, he doesn't want that either. He wants to find a way to put HIS personal best forward. Right now that means the SAT. Time is running out and rather than re-inventing the wheel, we were just trying to see what has or has not worked for others. That way we don't waste time doing what does not work. The tips and tricks are important and the knowledge is important. Much like the rest of life, huh? Thanks to everyone who has offered advise. We have a plan of attack thanks to you all and my son is determined.</p>