<p>Just as outside academia, the public sector feels less competitive pressure than the private sector. It takes more work to superscore on the part of admissions departments. Not a lot of work, but these are civil service institutions. State universities have a large reservoir of instate applicants for which they are the low cost alternative. For the same reason some think that K-12 public schools should be opened up to competition.</p>
<p>I’m wondering if everyone is lining up their list of colleges as the regular action deadlines draw near.</p>
<p>I’m seeing a lot of threads recently that refer to issues reported in this thread, so it’s time for a bump.</p>
<p>Harvard reported that 2500 applicants had an 800 on their CR and 3300 had an 800 on the math section. This omits the writing score, of course. Just wondering about the 269 count for a perfect 2400 score. These were their numbers for the 2008 class, but it does raise an interesting question regarding the 269 count, even taking into consideration superscoring. Is there a separate count somewhere for the writing score only? Random musings on a Saturday morning.</p>
<p>See </p>
<p>[SAT</a> Data Tables](<a href=“Higher Education Professionals | College Board”>Higher Education Professionals | College Board) </p>
<p>for links to other tables. (I’ve posted most of the detailed links in a recent post, if that link doesn’t work for you.)</p>
<p>I would like to see some information on the number of perfect scores with the addition of the writing section. I know that in 2003 there were 673 perfect scores (1600), and 2/3’s of them applied to Harvard. Of that group of ~450 about 200 were admitted, an acceptance rate of 44%, which is significanty higher than 7%. Has that percentage increased as the number of perfect scores goes down?</p>
<p><a href=“College Board - SAT, AP, College Search and Admission Tools”>College Board - SAT, AP, College Search and Admission Tools;
<p>The first post has just been updated with current information as of 26 October 2008.</p>
<p>Thank you, this is very, very helpful!</p>
<p>is a 2040 too low for ivies =[ =[ evenn if im number 1 in my class? for some reason my brain like freaks out during the SATs lol!</p>
<p>It might not be depending on what else you have in your application file. Always apply to a safety college if you apply to a highly selective college.</p>
<p>A couple of things to note about this thread: </p>
<ol>
<li><p>Most colleges are not considering the writing sections</p></li>
<li><p>College classes have a substantial percentage of underqualified minorities and athletes, so, i hate to say, the table by tokenadult in the first post is not an accurate reflection of admission realities. </p></li>
<li><p>Up to a point, colleges do care how many times you took the SAT. When I visited, an admissions officer at Vanderbilt actually said something to the effect of: “We encourage you to take it more than once to get a higher score, but taking it more than three or four is too much and will make us question how you use your time.”</p></li>
</ol>
<p>* Most colleges are not considering the writing sections.*</p>
<p>What think you of that, Tokenadult? Which is a more predictive measure of acceptance at competitive colleges, [CR + M], or [CR + M + W]?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>What is the evidence of this? What colleges say so explicitly in their own publications? </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Why would a college that is highly selective (declining to admit more than 50 percent of its applicants) admit anyone who is underqualified? And why do YOU assume that an underqualified person is necessarily someone who is a “minority”? What exactly do you mean here, and, again, where is your evidence for this statement?</p>
<p>I don’t think SAT scores are a do or die factor in college admissions. I mean If you have a 1.0 gpa and a 2400 you’re not going to Harvard. In contrast, if you have a 4.0 gpa and a 1000 on you SAT (It’s kinda sad if you get lower than 1600 in my opinion) you have a huge disadvantage in your application. A median if fine. A 2040 is perfect for some Ivys such as cornell. My friend recently got into Stanford with 1910 and i consider stanford an ivy level school</p>
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</p>
<p>“Do or die” is devoid of meaning. </p>
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</p>
<p>Your friend had a hook.</p>
<p>these questions must be annoying and it might have alrdy been discussed but…</p>
<p>is a 2100~ roughly enough to get into like a uchic/columbia/equivalent?..do i need like at least 2250 or something like that to have a decent chance?</p>
<p>is the SAT used for first round of admissions where if you don’t fall within range you’re basically discarded?</p>
<p>and just how many times should i take the SAT?</p>
<p>Thanks for answering!</p>
<p>The score ranges question is answered in this thread and in Common Data Set sources of information, e.g., </p>
<p>[College</a> Search - Columbia University - SAT®, AP®, CLEP®](<a href=“http://collegesearch.collegeboard.com/search/CollegeDetail.jsp?collegeId=3853&profileId=6]College”>http://collegesearch.collegeboard.com/search/CollegeDetail.jsp?collegeId=3853&profileId=6) </p>
<p>Here is the FAQ on retakes of the SAT: </p>
<p>ONE-TIME TEST-TAKING </p>
<p>Colleges have given up trying to distinguish one-time test-takers from two-time or three-time or even four-time test-takers, because that wasn’t useful information to the colleges. There are a number of reasons for that. </p>
<p>1) The colleges have utterly no way of knowing who spends all his free time practicing taking standardized tests and who takes them “cold.” </p>
<p>2) The colleges are well aware that students who have actually taken the tests sometimes cancel scores, so they have little incentive to give students bonus consideration if the students submit only one test score. </p>
<p>3) The colleges are aware that students who take the admission tests at middle-school age, who are numerous, do not have their earlier test scores submitted by default. </p>
<p>[SAT</a> Younger than 13](<a href=“http://www.collegeboard.com/student/testing/sat/reg/circum/younger.html]SAT”>http://www.collegeboard.com/student/testing/sat/reg/circum/younger.html) </p>
<p>[Hoagies</a>’ Gifted: Talent Search Programs](<a href=“http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/talent_search.htm]Hoagies”>http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/talent_search.htm) </p>
<p>[Duke</a> TIP - Interpreting SAT and ACT Scores for 7th Grade Students](<a href=“http://www.tip.duke.edu/resources/parents_students/interpreting_SAT-ACT_scores.html]Duke”>http://www.tip.duke.edu/resources/parents_students/interpreting_SAT-ACT_scores.html) </p>
<p>4) Colleges are aware that the majority of students who take the SAT at all take it more than once. </p>
<p><a href=“http://professionals.collegeboard.com/profdownload/Avg_Scores_of_Repeat_Test_Takers.pdf[/url]”>http://professionals.collegeboard.com/profdownload/Avg_Scores_of_Repeat_Test_Takers.pdf</a> </p>
<p>5) Colleges are in the business of helping students learn, and they don’t mind students taking efforts to improve their scores. They know that students prepare for tests. </p>
<p>From the New York Times: "Although coaching would no doubt continue if subject tests replaced the SAT, at least students would be focused on content as much as test-taking strategies, Mr. Murray said. There would also be pressure to improve local high school curriculums so that students were prepared, he wrote.</p>
<p>“These arguments make sense to Mr. Fitzsimmons [dean of admission at Harvard], who said, ‘People are going to prepare anyway, so they might as well study chemistry or biology.’ He added that ‘the idea of putting more emphasis on the subject tests is of great interest’ to his group.” </p>
<p><a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/19/education/19sat.html?pagewanted=print[/url]”>http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/19/education/19sat.html?pagewanted=print</a> </p>
<p>6) And now the College Board is back in the business of letting students choose which test scores to send into colleges, </p>
<p>[Score</a> Choice - New SAT Score-Reporting Policy](<a href=“http://professionals.collegeboard.com/testing/sat-reasoning/scores/policy]Score”>http://professionals.collegeboard.com/testing/sat-reasoning/scores/policy) </p>
<p>so now there is less reason than ever to suppose that colleges care how many times you take the test, because the colleges have no way to know how many times you took the test officially. </p>
<p>Colleges treat applicants uniformly now by considering their highest scores, period. </p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/349391-retake-how-many-times-take-sat-act.html#post4198038[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/349391-retake-how-many-times-take-sat-act.html#post4198038</a> </p>
<p><a href=“http://www.admissions.college.harvard.edu/utilities/electronic_resources/viewbook/Rollo0809_GuideApplying.pdf[/url]”>http://www.admissions.college.harvard.edu/utilities/electronic_resources/viewbook/Rollo0809_GuideApplying.pdf</a> </p>
<p>From the Harvard admission office: “If you submit more than one set of scores for any of the required tests, the Admissions Committee considers only your best scores—even if your strongest SAT Subject Tests or portions of the SAT Reasoning Test were taken on different dates.” </p>
<p>See also a Newsweek article about the renewed score choice policy adopted by College Board. </p>
<p>[Reactions</a> to College Board’s SAT Score Choice | Newsweek Education | Newsweek.com](<a href=“http://www.newsweek.com/id/172585]Reactions”>http://www.newsweek.com/id/172585) </p>
<p>Some colleges want to see all scores a student has ever obtained, period, but as one admission officer asks, if “a student submits a single best sitting of 2320,” does anyone really care “how low were her other score sets?” </p>
<p>A January 2009 email from Dartmouth’s assistant director of admissions clarifies the issue: “At Dartmouth we consider a student’s highest SAT I score in each category (or their highest composite ACT score) and their two highest SAT II Subject Test scores, regardless of how many times they have taken the tests. We never discount a student’s highest score, even if they have taken the SAT multiple times. I do hope that students will not feel the pressure to take the SAT tests four or five times (the data suggests that scores typically do not improve after the second try), but we will always consider the student’s highest scores.”</p>
<p>Nazzy: Ted O’Neill at UChicago has publicly dissed standardized testing, so its not so important for them (altho Ted is stepping down so the college may change emphasis). As a general rule of thumb, it’s always better to be above the colllege’s median scores for a “decent” chance, particularly for highly selective colleges (where “decent” is defined as better than 10% chance). Of course being above the median will do nothing for a sub-par gpa. Even a 2400 won’t help a 3.5 gpa earn admission to Harvard unless one is also an Olympic athlete.</p>
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<p>Adcoms are forever dissing standardized testing publicly, and then using them privately. If it is honesty and transparency you seek, college admissions isn’t the first place you’d want to go looking.</p>