I know some of you parents on here have older kids who have already been through SAT and college application process, so I’m hoping one of you can shed some light for me on the SAT Subject Tests. I don’t think these even existed when I was in high school, so they’re a mystery to me. I’m just wondering how to interpret what’s a “good” score. Yes, I know that’s a totally subjective question, and what’s “good” for one student wouldn’t be for another. But just in general. Back when I was in high school, I think anyone would have said that any score in the 700s was great. Just wondering if that kind of holds true for the subject tests too. I see on the SAT website that you could get, for instance, a 750 in the math level II test and it would only put you in the 62d percentile, same score on chemistry would similarly only put you in the 72d percentile. Objectively, I would have said that a 750 sounds like a great score, but then the percentiles make me think that it’s really nothing to write home about.
This is where the college counseling office comes into play; they have so much experience in this area. Having just gone through this process, here’s my take:
Very few colleges require/request SAT subject tests, and the ones that do tend to be the hyper selective ones upon which everybody on College Confidential seems fixated, so the higher the better.
The difference between 750 and 800, in my mind, is negligible. All these universities that request subject test scores also practice holistic admissions. So once one hits an “acceptable” score, one should consider the box to have been checked and now time should be focused on other aspects of the application (e.g. finetuning essays).
A 750=750=750. A 750 in Chinese carries the same weight as a 750 in world history or a 750 in Math 2. Because so few colleges require subject tests, the students who do take the tests self select the subject in which they think they will perform best. As a result, for many subjects, the percentiles are fairly “low.” However, there is no admissions officer who is cross referencing subject test scores with percentiles. Not a single one. Period. End of Story.
Another question on the SAT subject tests if applicable… Do you happen to know if AP test scores can be used as an equivalent to the subject tests scores for admission? I’m from a school without any knowledge of the SAT whatsoever (only take ACT), and I am applying to competitive universities. I will have 8 AP classes by the end of my senior year, and can those scores gauge my understanding of a subject as sufficiently as a subject tests? I’m just worried… The whole subject tests is within the unknown to me.
APs are not meant to replace SAT II’s, which are required or highly recommended by many colleges. AP classes and AP test scores can help strengthen your academic profile, but they don’t fulfill the admission requirements. Hope this helps.
^^ Right. APs were originally meant to give you credit for introductory classes ONCE YOU GET TO COLLEGE (in fact, some colleges would even allow you to graduate in 3years if you had enough APs, giving you full credit for your freshman year). These days, that is less true:sometimes you’ll be allowed to skip an introductory course and go straight into an advanced level class-- but even that doesn’t always happen–depends on the subject and the college (for example, kids may score a 5 on AP Music Theory, but the college may thing THEIR music theory course is better or at least different in contact, so the student will still have to take the introductory course). APs are NOT a replacement for SATIIs, which are really the modern replacement for what used to be called “Achievement Tests.” Some colleges require SATIIs for admission, and some use them to get you out of requirements (as in: if you score over a 700 in a language, you can pass out of a language requirement). Colleges use APs mostly as a sign you challenged yourself
Sorry-- hit button prematurely-- they use APs to show you challenged yourself with hard courses, but ADMISSIONS offices don’t use the scores the way they do SATIIs. In fact, lots of applicants take the most AP classes they’r senior year and don’t even take the test until the end of the year, so the Admissions officers don’t even see the scores. They just want you to have taken a challenging schedule.
So, does it make any sense for a student to take a subject SATII as a freshman or sophomore? For example, should one take the Biology SATII after taking introductory Biology as a freshman? Is there a benefit to quantity over quality? Can you choose which ones to send?
Or would it make the most sense to take these tests on subjects one knows the most on during college admissions cycle to show that a prospective student has learned something in high school?
At my kid’s school, at the end of the term, the teachers recommend which students should take the SAT subject test. The thinking seems to be that it should be taken when the course material is fresh in their minds… She took the Bio test as a freshman. It was not really convenient… We had to return to campus a week after school ended so she could take it.
To answer the original poster’s question, my sense (from going to multiple presentations about the college admissions process by test prep and independent advisors in NYC) is that 700 and over “checks the box” but 750 and over is the score that you want for top schools. Anecdotally this was somewhat confirmed by a friend who went to an info session at one of the HYP schools and the admissions representative said that if she saw that a kid with a score in the 750/760 range had retaken a subject test to get an even higher score, she would actually think less of that applicant. To answer @heartburner’s question, I think it is a kid by kid answer. My D took the SAT 2 Bio after taking Bio in 9th grade and SAT 2 Chem after taking Chem in 10th grade and did well on both but a) she studied for the tests independently and b) is a good test taker. She could have been finished with SAT 2s at that point but decided to take the SAT 2 in Math 2 at the end of 11th grade because some schools request that you submit a score from a math test. But I have several friends whose kids were either not as willing to do independent study and/or not as good at taking standardized tests and they were disappointed in their scores in Bio after 9th grade and plan to re-take after taking AP Bio in 11th grade. I think the SAT 2 subject tests are probably the least important pieces of the college app and more schools are making them “recommended” as opposed to “required.” Even among the relatively small number of schools that still require them, most do not specify which subjects (exception: engineering/tech schools which tend to require math and one of the sciences) so my advice is to take the test in subjects that you are most fluent in. Also, most schools allow score choice with SAT 2 subject tests. Yale is an exception as they require that you submit all scores from all tests. There may be others.
Given the changes in the SAT I test this year, who knows how colleges will regard the SAT II tests?
A friend with a prep school child reports that school’s college counselor is recommending students take the ACT, not the SAT. The theory is that the new SAT will be very different, but will be much more like the ACT than before. So why not focus on the “real” ACT, which is well established? If the student takes the ACT with writing, the entire question of SAT I, II, etc. falls away.
No-- it doesn’t. It’s fine to use the ACT rather than the SAT, but some schools still require SATIIs-- and those are not changing this year.
No. If a school requests/requires 2 and you send more, they will just take the best 2. You would not be given additional consideration just for taking more than required.
Short answer - it depends. Some schools allow you to choose which ones to send. Other schools, like Yale, require all scores be sent. So you would really need to check each college’s website for confirmation.
Some schools, depending on major, require certain tests to be sent. For example, Wharton undergrad requires Math !! and will not accept Math 1. And they take it seriously, as a low score (under 650/700?) will keep you out of certain majors and select programs.
FWIW, rumor has it that Penn is going optional for subject tests this year.
SATII are best taken right after the relevant class. One science, Math Level 2, and maybe a language or social science if that is a strength, should more than do it. They can certainly be taken by kids in any grade who feel prepared, and there are advantages for doing one test per day (less fatigue) and getting them out of the way early.
Pearls:
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Do not leave SATII tests until Junior spring because using a date for SATII means the regular SAT cannot be taken that same day, and who knows if that will be a test date critically needed due to illness, etc. So get them done earlier (they are given about 4 times a year), and if possible only do one SATII per day.
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Use prep books and take practice tests. Some tests have quirky question formats (chemistry). The material the tests cover may be different from the prep school class material. PREPARE using the SATII syllabus of covered material and take practice tests.
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Math Level 2 is fine for kids with some trig (i.e all prep school kids), and the curve is much more forgiving than Math Level I. Avoid Math Level I. Study the curve for Math Level 2, it may be better to leave a few blank rather than guess wildly. This is discussed in the prep books.
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There are good forums on college confidential about preparing for each of the SATIIs.
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Engineering programs may request particular science SATIIs.
I see absolutely no point in only doing one test per day; the test is only an hour long. If the student is prepared for 2 or 3 tests, there is no reason not to take them. If s/he cannot handle 2 Subject Tests at once, how is s/he going to handle 2 AP exams or 2 college finals on the same day?
Any thoughts on how admissions is affected by submitting Math Level II or Level I results for SAT twos? In other words, does “avoid Level One”, from above post, suggest that it is a disqualifier of some sort? Under what conditions? Thanks. @skieurope @2prepMom
@Charger78 I don’t think it’s a disqualifier, but I do think that any student who is prepared with classes through trig should take Math 2 and, I would think that the vast majority of students planning on being a STEM major would have that preparation. Additionally, some STEM-focused universities (e.g. Caltech) require Math 2).
DS took Math2 after 9th grade (finished precal), Spanish with Listening (only offered in Nov) fall of 10th grade and Chem in May of 10th grade. He only took one each time because that was what was he was ready to do. You can take the test anywhere it is offered so if your child is home for break or for the summer you can take it locally. AP needs to be taken at school.
Different schools have different policies. The College Board policy does not dictate that the AP needs to be taken at your school, although your school may or may not have rules which supersede that.