SAT vs. ACT for this student?

Parents Forum
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<p>My son's only taken two timed standardized tests in his life, the SAT last year as a sophomore (730 CR, 690 M, 670 W with a 76 MC and a 5 on the essay) and the PSAT this year (215- 69 CR, 68M, 78 W), so he does lack experience in test taking.</p>

<p>He received accommodations (time and a half) for both tests. He'll retake SAT in January with added accommodation of keyboarding for essay.</p>

<p>He is just finishing trig and will probably get an A, but he's had extra help along the way. He was diagnosed with a math disability at age 11 (98%ile math reasoning, 14th%ile math calculation), but has made up some ground in math. He'll take pre-calc in the spring and Calc I and II next year.</p>

<p>He actually thinks he wants to major in engineering. He's had little experience with math but seems to be getting better. Clearly, grammar and writing structure is a strength but writing isn't (yet).</p>

<p>Do you think he should attempt the ACT without accommodations (since I hear it's pretty impossible to get accommodations)? Or should he just stick with the SAT?</p>

<p>The goal is to get over 700 on math (I think he can do it; he missed 4 on the SAT and 5 on the PSAT and all were the hard level questions) and write a better essay (which should get him well over 700 on the W).</p>

<p>Thanks for any input.</p>

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<p>I think he can probably get over 700 on the math too, but don’t beat yourself up if he doesn’t. My younger son has similar math issues and got a 690 twice. It didn’t stop him from having some very nice acceptances though he wasn’t applying to engineering schools. SAT essay writing is a bit of a joke. You can definitely get better at it, but it is so unlike any sort of essay any kid has ever written before or ever will write again, I’m not convinced how much time one should spend at it trying to improve scores. My older son managed to do better on the essay the second time he took the SAT, but then blew the MC section. (He’d gotten an 80 on the PSAT writing so he was clearly capable of doing better.) For most schools that writing score will be fine, very few colleges seem to pay much attention to it. </p>

<p>I can’t advise you on the ACT, I guess I’d suggest he take one practice test without extra time and see what the results are. Or see if you can get accomodations and only prep for it if they give the okay. I do think the ACT essay questions are much more straightforward.</p>

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<p>At this point, I am hoping he goes over some practice math sections during the Christmas break. He’s having eye surgery on Tuesday and will need some time to recover, so that will limit his time before classes start again. Still, in theory, he’s had enough math to know all of the problems on the SAT. I think he lacks experience. </p>

<p>The test takers that I know that have done well on math have spent years interacting with math in a timed setting (either through competitions or through standardized testing), so, you’re right, I can’t get too bummed since I know he’s in a different category than those types of students.</p>

<p>Still, since he’s considering engineering, I feel like he should at least try to study the math portion of the SAT (I’m willing to skip any CR study since he got a 730 the first time and I’m satisfied with that).</p>

<p>Are there free practice ACTs online?</p>

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<p>Released ACT practice questions and tests:</p>

<p>[Practice</a> Questions | ACT Student](<a href=“ACT Test Preparation | Test Prep Resources | ACT”>ACT Test Preparation | Test Prep Resources | ACT)
<a href=“http://media.act.org/documents/preparing.pdf[/url]”>http://media.act.org/documents/preparing.pdf&lt;/a&gt;
[releasedacttests</a> - ACT Quantum](<a href=“http://www.actquantum.com/releasedacttests/]releasedacttests”>http://www.actquantum.com/releasedacttests/)</p>

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<p>Great! Thanks, ucb.</p>

<p>I don’t even know what math ACT covers but I heard trig was on it. I’m going to have him look at the ACT just to see what he thinks. I’m wholly unfamiliar with it but if it might be a better test for him, it will be worth the time.</p>

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<p>Try for ACT accommodations. My D with a math disability since age 8 did get them on the first try (time and a half plus smaller room). No questions asked with documentation of disability and IEP provided by the school.</p>

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<p>I can’t speak to SAT vs ACT - my son only did the ACT, which he took with accommodations (time and a half) and he had no problem getting approved. Don’t give up without trying! If your son’s documentation was good enough for SAT accommodations, it may work for the ACT as well.</p>

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<p>definitely request accommodations for the ACT, since it is much more of a speed test than is the SAT. (And speed is critical for the so-called science section, which is mostly just interpreting data/graphs.)</p>

<p>btw: there are only four trig problems on the ACT. Two of them are right triangle problems and easily solved by the Phythag theorem.</p>

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<p>“The test takers that I know that have done well on math have spent years interacting with math in a timed setting (either through competitions or through standardized testing), so, you’re right, I can’t get too bummed since I know he’s in a different category than those types of students.”</p>

<p>Except that it’s not true. Some kids are good at math but just don’t choose to compete. My daughter was the only NMSF at her school who does competitive math. And most schools don’t give any tests nearly as time-critical as the PSAT/SAT are.</p>

<p>Frankly, I think if they are giving time and a half to some students, really they should just do away with the extreme time pressure on these tests, and turn them into testing how much the students know as opposed to how fast they can do it. Most of the school-based standardized testing my kids took allowed the kids to spend as much time as they wanted. They could spend all day on the test if they wanted to. That way, no one could complain they didn’t have enough time, or that different amounts of time given to different students was unfair in any way. Everyone had plenty of time to show what they were capable of doing.</p>

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<p>Exactly. Our public HS had plenty of math scores that started with a 7 (or 8) and we did not belong to any competitive math programs. Heck, we even had future lit majors who scored 700+.</p>

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<p>I think the ACT is becoming more popular. is it true, not sure but that is what I have heard.</p>

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<p>???</p>

<p>I hope you realize that what differentiates tests like the ACT or SAT from others is none other than the time factor. Without the exact time limitations, the tests would become trivial. The test writers could write a test that has no time limits, but it would be so much harder than it would not reflect well on the tested cohort. Take a look at the the IQ tests such as Nemesis or Gaia for an idea on tests that do not impose a time limit. </p>

<p>The key to the SAT (and a bit less for the ACT) is the measurement of the ability to answer the question under time constraints as there is an answer to be found with little to no time spent. That is where the reasoning and logic ability kicks in. An ability that a student can be born with and developed or … learned through practice and repetition.</p>

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<p>I’m wondering, since calculators are allowed, how is being poor at math calculations a disability that requires time and a half–isn’t the calculator the accommodation? And why would being poor at math calculations require keyboarding for an essay? Keyboarding an essay seems to me like a really unfair advantage–it’s way faster. I hope at least they apply a word limit to typed material based on what other students can hand write in that time.</p>

<p>@Xiggi, of course I realize that the time factor is everything on the PSAT/SAT. Which is why I was so surprised to hear that some students are being given extra time.</p>

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<p>@zobroward, yes, the ACT passed the SAT a couple of years ago.
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1395347-act-more-popular-2012-than-sat.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1395347-act-more-popular-2012-than-sat.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>

Because it takes longer to use a calculator for every basic computation?</p>

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I highly doubt that. If you don’t understand trig, you are not going to solve the trig questions with 10 extra minutes either. FWIW, once I got used to the time contraints, there was nothing I couldn’t solve in the timed setting that I would have been able to solve with a few extra minutes. (And time was a big factor for me. The first practice ACT I took, I could only complete 2 out of the 4 reading sections in the time allotted. Had to practice reading faster and various test-taking strategies to finish the reading section in time.)</p>

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<p>Re. keyboarding-he got that based on other factors, not his math disability. He has a 6%ile processing speed but 99.9%ile in some other areas on standardized tests. Also, if his blood sugars run high (which they tend to do when under stress such as a timed test) it slows down his mental functioning. The main reason he got the time and a half, though, is his vision disability. Reading is painful and like “running a race with a ball and chain around his leg”, so says his opthalmologist. My son’s having eye surgery early tomorrow morning in the hopes of correcting this. For now, reading anything-math problems, books, etc. tires him out easily, hurts, and he needs breaks.</p>

<p>Re. the exposure to times tests.</p>

<p>No really-my kid is homeschooled and has <em>never</em> taken a timed math test before last June. Unlike the kids you mentioned in public schools who’ve been taking timed tests since they were knee-high, my son never did. He struggled with math for many years and so, until 8th grade, I used little structure with him until he jumped into AoPS algebra online the summer after 8th. My oldest son had to tutor him through the class and he kind of bailed at the end.</p>

<p>He took two years to finish geometry and I never gave him timed tests. He took AoPS Alg. II this past summer-still no timed tests.</p>

<p>His 8 week trig class for which he just took the final this morning (and felt he did horribly, unfortunately, as he had an A going into the final) is the first math class where he took timed tests.</p>

<p>So yes, he has had less experience than most school kids.</p>

<p>It may well be that he will simply never get any better with math calculation and remembering math processes and facts. He has terrific reasoning skills and I guess a 690 is good everywhere except on College Confidential.</p>

<p>After he takes pre-calc and physics in the spring at the CC, we’ll see if he’ll reevaluate his interest in engineering as a major. Certainly, he could go to a good state school or a less selective private school with his current SAT, but somehow he and I both had a hope that he could break that 700 mark.</p>

<p>Thanks for the feedback on the ACT. It may be worthwhile to apply for accommodations (and he might not need some of them if the surgery is successful) and have him take the ACT next fall.</p>

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<p>If he wants to take the ACT, perhaps he can take it in the spring to give him a chance to see the results, then use results of both the ACT and SAT to determine whether he wants to take either test again in the fall.</p>

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<p>Good idea, UCB. I’m going to get through my son’s eye surgery recovery, my mom’s memorial (she very sadly passed away unexpectedly a month ago), and then I will turn my attention back to education and go through the application for ACT accommodations.</p>

<p>Life is tenuous. Gotta love my family right now!</p>

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<p>I hope the eye surgery goes well.</p>