SAT writing section: "Fooling the College Board"

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The remaining of the test consists of VERY simple mechanical questions ... questions that should extirely trivial to someone who was considered prepared enough to start an AP class. After all, we are talking about 9th grade grammar, and not the type of questions that would show up in an AP Lit test.

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<p>I don't necessarily agree. For those that language comes naturally to, yes. But there are people in AP or advanced english classes who aren't necessarily naturals at this and with a little more work can polish things up. "Entirely trivial" is a bit of an exaggeration IMO. In theory, I would agree. However, in practice, I know a lot of people who get overwhelmed with all the words thrown at them in the MC. </p>

<p>It's not necessarily like writing yourself. I work well with language and a lot of the SAT questions annoy me, because even the "correct" version, though technically correct, is sometimes written a way that is not natural and is not the way anyone would ever write it. True, the other answers choices often have a mistake that is apparent if you have the "ear" for this stuff. But I think some people encounter problems when they see these akward choices. I see why they want to assess grammar but it's a little bit of an unnatural way that sort of tends to attempt to trick people rather than allow them to show what they know. If I write something, I don't write it four different times with various grammar mistakes and then pick the right one. I think it indicates more whether you can read five sentences and pick one, than whether you can write a proper sentence. A more effective way is to give the sentence with mistakes and ask the student to edit it. IME, this is how grammar was taught in schools to me. Obviously, that can't be done on the SAT for logistical purposes, but for people who can't sit for hours on end reading choice after choice, it would be much more efficient. </p>

<p>I got two wrong on the writing MC the first time I took the SAT, with no prep. But even for me, all the answers can start swimming together towards the end...I'd be willing to bet that the two wrong were on my last section, although I didn't get the question and answer service so I don't really know. I know a lot of people that I know for a fact are good writers and write clearly, but their writing score doesn't necessarily reflect it. It's not usually incredibly drastic, but there does seem to be some discrepancy. I've noticed this mostly in people who tend to be very precise. I think they get overwhelmed with the wordiness of the choices, when in reality they're the best and most accurate students I know. I've often seen verbal scores that are significantly different from the writing score, and that's the only conclusion I can draw. I think the writing is more mentally demanding, although easier to be accurate on as it tends to be less subjective in nature than some of the verbal part (which I think is straightforward for the most part but has the occasional question I'd qualify as "stretching it" - probably gets discounted or is part of equating though.)</p>

[xiggi]

<p>Prince, look at my comments in their original context, which was a discussion about a student doing well in an AP class and being challenged by the SAT Writing. </p>

<p>While I understand your position, one item is unmistakable: "I got two wrong on the writing MC the first time I took the SAT, with no prep. When looking at the SAT Writing test, one cannot help notice the repetitions and the patterns. Inasmuch as one could find a couple of challenging questions that require the full attention of the students --some call them tricky questions-- the questions really test a level of knowledge that is not much higher than a 9th grade level. The rules that are tested are basic and not extensive. </p>

<p>In comparison, the questions on the AP English or AP Lit are a lot harder and more complex. The tests are also a LOT more resistant to memorization and ... shortcuts. </p>

<p>In so many words, because of the simplicity of the material tested on the SAT Writing, I really don't see how a student could do well on the AP test but poorly on the SAT Writing. On the other hand, the opposite situation would not be surprising.</p>

[Princedog]

<p>Well I have to admit I have no knowledge of the AP exams. IB English (or whatever language A you have) is pure writing. I know AP lit had MC, I assumed it was about the books? I really don't have any idea about AP Lang though. </p>

<p>But I know a lot of people that tried to prepare and are good writers who write clearly, and they didn't fare so well. I do think it's a little unnatural either way. If I had the chance on a lot of the SAT questions, I would reword them completely. Often the answer choice is not the best way to write something. I'm just saying I think that people do get overwhelmed even if in theory they have the ability to do it - I'm not trying to say I don't think they shouldn't be able to ace this, if they do well in an advanced english class, I'm just trying to understand why that isn't happening, because it seemed that for a lot of people I know, it wasn't happening.</p>

<p>Perhaps that's just because as a whole there wasn't the practice with CB type MC tests you might get in an AP class (though I'm sure it varies greatly anyway). I guess I would have to know what percentage of the test takers are in college prep english although I'm not sure that data exists. a 780 or so usually is the 99 percentile in writing, I think. That's generally what about 2 questions wrong and a 10+ essay would be? (I'm guessing here a little, I don't know the exact curves. And of course a 12 essay and 3 wrong might work too). If more than 1% of the test takers are in college prep english then something is off about the idea that being prepared for AP english should correlate to success on the writing SAT. Now that may mean english isn't being taught well, or it may mean that the writing SAT isn't the best way to measure writing. </p>

<p>I would go with a combination of both but obviously I don't really have the data to make my point so it's a little worthless ;)</p>

[asteriskea]

<p>Inteview with dean of admission at Reed College on the SAT-R:</p>

<p>
[quote]
In theory, there's nothing wrong with requiring that all college-bound students take a writing exam. However, this writing exam has been, and continues to be, a poor representation of a student's writing ability.</p>

<p>Paul Marthers, dean of admission at Reed College in Portland, Ore., says Reed does not look closely at the writing score, instead choosing to look at the graded writing sample required of all applicants.</p>

<p>"A paper that you wrote for a class -- and rewrote -- is a better indicator of writing ability than something dashed off in 25 minutes," Marthers said.</p>

<p>Although they are offered as a service by the College Board, the actual SAT essays written by its applicants are not evaluated by Reed.</p>

<p>However, Marthers said the SAT writing score does have some small value in the admissions decision. "A really low score, for example, has predictive value. With a low score, we need good evidence that it makes good sense to admit a student."</p>

<p>Evidence, Marthers said, can come as strong grades, or socioeconomic or cultural factors that might explain a low score.</p>

<p>The College Board believes there is a proven relationship between SAT writing scores, GPA and English grades among college students, and this year it released a study -- conducted by College Board researchers -- supporting that theory.</p>

<p>The study also implies that the SAT writing test might be driving writing instruction; the knowledge of an upcoming writing exam for all college-bound students dictates that schools stress writing in their curriculum.</p>

<p>Despite criticism, the College Board isn't likely to eliminate the writing test, even for those students applying to colleges that don't require a writing exam.

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<p>Many of us do agree that just as the old SAT writing subject test was imperfect so is the new SAT writing section. Two years into the new SAT, I must say I have noticed a positive impact at my kids' high school. Simply because everyone must take the writing test there is more emphasis on grammar and writing in the curriculum - and thank goodness, teachers are not encouraging formulaic, lazy thinking nor merely teaching to the test. I do find it significant that while Reed does require the submission of an in-class, graded writing sample the new SAT is recognized to play a role, albeit small, in the admissions process. At the same time, I also can't help wonder just how welcome Les Perelman's idea for a better test would be - a test that would consist of two substantial essays written over the course of a day (because according to National Commission on Writing, one sample is insufficient to measure a student's writing and students need time to plan, revise and edit) graded, via the internet, by high school and college faculty.</p>

[diesel]

<p>i truly think that the writing section is graded by temp workers, not anyone founded in english or for that matter any scholastic merit.</p>

<p>when i took the sat's, the essay scores never seemed to match up to what the person got on the rest of the test, or how they did through school. people who have never gotten less than a 5 on an AP test were getting 6's and people who were in regular english struggling to get a B were getting 8's and 9's. </p>

<p>i went into the test wondering if a more basic style of writing is favored in the test because of who is reading the essay. i wrote a very simplistic essay, made up; 3 ancient societies that did not exist, a historical quote that was also false, and connected this to a life experience that did not happen. </p>

<p>everyone that i talked to said that i would be lucky to get a 5, i got a 12. to me furthers the incompetence of the CB</p>