<p>Hi all,
DS who is HS Junior just conveyed to me that one his teachers of a core subject and the ONLY teacher who teaches that class made it known to the class that no one should ask of her/him for a recommendation as teacher does not know them well enough.</p>
<p>Well, DS has a couple upcoming competitions that require that specific subject teachers recommendation. Application specifically says Current subject teacher. I asked son if teacher was kidding, he said no. My gut feeling is for him to still go and ask and be specifically told no instead of a general statement. What are your thoughts?</p>
<p>Also, DS has one of the highest grades in this AP class.</p>
<p>I realize teachers do not have to write recommendations, however, when you are at a school that only ONE teacher teaches a class your hands are sort of tied.:(</p>
<p>Note: This is not a request for college application recommendation, but for other programs. </p>
<p>It sounds like this teacher just doesn't want to write any letters of recommendation. I wouldn't press the issue...he wouldn't put any effort into a letter if he was co-erced into it.</p>
<p>There's no harm in your s saying, "Ms. Smith, could you clarify something for me? I'd like to enter a competition that requires a letter from my current subject matter teacher. Does your ban on writing recommendations extend to this situation, since without your letter I cannot enter the competition?"</p>
<p>As long as he's polite, and takes the second "No" for an answer, and simply says, "Thank you, Ms. Smith" and walks away, it should be fine.</p>
<p>I concur with Chedva's approach. I would add, if the answer is still "no", then approach the GC to discuss the situation and possibly get a letter from him/her, explaining the subject teacher's blanket policy and alternate reference, either from GC or another teacher (or both).</p>
<p>Don't know if this is true for public as well as private schools, but at our s's school (private) all upper school teachers understood that part of their job description was to be available to write letters of recommendation if/when asked. Perhaps there is a delicate way to check this out with the administration, without mentioning who the dissenting teacher is???</p>
<p>"DS who is HS Junior just conveyed to me that one his teachers of a core subject and the ONLY teacher who teaches that class made it known to the class that no one should ask of her/him for a recommendation as “teacher” does not know them well enough."</p>
<p>Someone needs to let the administration know so the administration can let the teacher know that their job description includes knowing students well enough by midyear to write recommendations for them.</p>
<p>Meanwhile, your S needs to talk to follow Chedva's suggestion including following up with guidance if the teacher declines.</p>
<p>I think jym626 has a good point about contacting the administration. I don't suggest complaining, but the principal should be aware of the limitations this places on all students from the school. If they can't participate in certain competitions because a subject teacher's recommendation is required, and is unavailable, the school is missing out on an important opportunity to nurture its students and create an academically challenging environment. </p>
<p>The OP's son might also consider contacting the competition's sponsor and asking if there are alternate policies in place when a subject teacher's rec is not available.</p>
<p>Northstar, I disagree with your statement that this is part of a teacher's job description. A teacher writes recs out of the kindness of his/her heart. But I'm sure it is not mandated by a professional contract to write recommendations for students, nor do I think it should be. As for making the assumption that teachers should know students well enough by midyear to write the rec, not sure I agree with that either. In optimal circumstances, that would be true, but many teachers don't work in optimal circumstances. Classes can be large and teachers can be overworked; they should have the option of declining. </p>
<p>Writing recs is just not done by some teachers - either writing isn't their thing or they aren't willing to take the personal time required to do a good job. Most schools (public schools anyway) don't give teachers the extensive time necessary to write recs during their work day. There are many things we don't know about this scenario. I mean think about it. Lets say this teacher has 4 classes of AP whatever and all those kids ask for a rec. Teaching AP classes is not easy - can be very stressful. AP kids (and their parents) can be very high-maintenance. You could be talking about 80 (or more) letters of recommendation on top of his other responsibilities. Maybe he has written them in the past and is opting out this year. He should have that right without parents contacting the administration and complaining. Complain that he isn't given time to write the recs, complain that he has so many classes or that his classes are so large, but don't complain that he opts out of an optional task.</p>
<p>My guess this teacher is well aware of his rights. Otherwise, he wouldn't have made such a statement to his students. Most AP kids aren't hesitant to go to the administration if they think they've experienced an 'injustice'. He would have know there would be complaints. </p>
<p>My suggestion to the OP is to find another to write the rec or ask his principal for the letter.</p>
<p>
[quote]
A teacher writes recs out of the kindness of his/her heart. But I'm sure it is not mandated by a professional contract to write recommendations for students, nor do I think it should be.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Beil-
Are you really sure about this or are you hypothesizing? Are you talking public or private school? Just as faculty are <em>required</em> to take on extracurricular activities in some capacity as part of their responsibilities (e.g. sponsor a club, be an assistant coach, etc) I do think it should be, if it isn't already, as requirement of upper school (HS) faculty to be prepared/expected to write letters of recc. for students This is part of what is necessary for these kids to get into programs, teams, competitions, college, etc. It isnt a luxury, it is a necessity. If some teacher decides they don't want to be bothered writing lettters, that just shifts the burden to other teachers who already have equally as much work to do. That is wrong, and shouldnt be permitted. I wouldnt be surprised if, especially for HS honors or AP class teachers, that writing these letters of recc IS part of their job description. If not, it should be.</p>
<p>*** as an aside, sometimes teachers are given other "breaks" -- ie fewer students, fewer classes, no lunchroom monitoring responsibility, etc if they have more demanding responsibilities. If a teacher had 4 sections of an AP class ( is that possible???) then they probably arent working as the assistant coach of the frisbee team, for eg. They SHOULD be writing letters of recc. Comes with the territory.</p>
<p>"Northstar, I disagree with your statement that this is part of a teacher's job description. A teacher writes recs out of the kindness of his/her heart. But I'm sure it is not mandated by a professional contract to write recommendations for students, nor do I think it should be. As for making the assumption that teachers should know students well enough by midyear to write the rec, not sure I agree with that either. In optimal circumstances, that would be true, but many teachers don't work in optimal circumstances. Classes can be large and teachers can be overworked; they should have the option of declining. "</p>
<p>I agree that teachers should have the option of declining if, for instance, they feel they don't know a student well enough or couldn't write a supportive recommendation.</p>
<p>However, I don't think that teachers should be able to refuse to write any recommendations. That would impose a hardship on their students, and an unfair burden on the other teachers and GCs who'd have to try to pick up the slack because there certainly are times in which all college-bound students will need recommendations.</p>
<p>And a teacher who really doesn't know any students well enough to write a recc for them after teaching them for half a year is incompetent. </p>
<p>"Writing recs is just not done by some teachers - either writing isn't their thing or they aren't willing to take the personal time required to do a good job."</p>
<p>They don't have to take an hour to write an excellent recc with lots of specific examples. Most of the reccs that students need have check-off forms. The teacher can check some boxes, and can choose to add a sentence or two. Those kind of reccs take about 5 minutes max. The reccs also ask the teacher how long they have known the student and in what context, so if the teacher has only taught the student for one semester, the recc would be viewed in that context.</p>
<p>
[quote]
However, I don't think that teachers should be able to refuse to write any recommendations. That would impose a hardship on their students, and an unfair burden on the other teachers and GCs who'd have to try to pick up the slack because there certainly are times in which all college-bound students will need recommendations
[/quote]
NSM-
We keep saying the same thing! I totally agree that a teacher should find a way to delicately tell a student that they may not be the best person to write a recommendation (if they dont feel they can write a good one) , or, worst case scenario-- they write a neutral one if push comes to shove. But to blow off the responsibility because they dont want to be bothered is, IMO unacceptable.</p>
<p>"And a teacher who really doesn't know any students well enough to write a recc for them after teaching them for half a year is incompetent."</p>
<p>That's a pretty strong statement, Northstar. Must be nice up there in your tower! This teacher is not obligated to satisfy the requests of all his students. Maybe it would be nice if he did so, but he is not obligated. </p>
<p>You clearly don't have enough information to assess his competency. </p>
<p>I don't wish to get in to an argument with you, I just heartily disagree with the judgment you've pronounced!</p>
<p>"That's a pretty strong statement, Northstar. Must be nice up there in your tower! This teacher is not obligated to satisfy the requests of all his students. Maybe it would be nice if he did so, but he is not obligated. "</p>
<p>I repeat, and have added capitalization in case you missed my point: "And a teacher who really doesn't know ANY students well enough to write a recc for them after teaching them for half a year is incompetent."</p>
<p>My perspective also comes from having been a college professor. No, I didn't write reccs for all students who asked me nor do I think that any teacher should have to do that. The students whom I turned down were students whom I wouldn't have been able to give a favorable recc to -- for example students who had D or F grades or who had plagiarized.</p>
<p>I would never have made a blanket statement to any class that I had taught a semester that I didn't know anyone well enough to write a recc for, and I do think that any teacher who makes such a blanket statement is either incompetent or extremely lazy.</p>
<p>Presumably any teacher who has taught a class for a semester has known the students well enough to grade them, so should be able to write some kind of recommendation for at least some of the students. Even if the recc only said something like the following, the teacher should be able to write something: "I have been teaching John Smith this year in AP English. During fall semester, my AP English class requires students to take three one-hour essay exams and write a 5 page paper about the metaphors in "For Whom the Bell Tolls." John Smith got "A" grades on all of those assignments, which put him in approximately the top 5% of the class, which includes the top English students in the 11th grade at our high school."</p>
<p>If any AP English teacher at my kids' schools had made a blanket statement that they wouldn't do any recommendations, parents would have been at the principal's office complaining so fast the teacher's head would be spinning. The statement is idiotic especially since many college bound students will need an 11th or 12th grade English teacher's recommendation as part of their college apps. An AP English teacher who refuses to write any reccs doesn't deserve to be teaching that subject.</p>
<p>Totally agree with NSM. My H is a HS teacher, I am a college instructor, and we would have nothing but contempt for any educator with the kind of attitude of the one being discussed.</p>
<p>At our local public school, the AP Lit teacher was completely over-loaded with requests for recommendations for college applications--probably 80 to 100 letters in a relatively short time period. She writes detailed letters, which are quite valuable to the students. As deadlines approached, the school took the unusual step of hiring a substitute teacher for 2 days to give the AP Lit teacher some release time, so that she could complete the letters. I know that some districts would find this impossible to afford (and ours is definitely cash-strapped, too), but it might be worth bringing up.</p>
<p>I completely agree with NSM and others on this. An 11th grade teacher should not be pronouncing that she will write NO recommendations. I have been a public school teacher but not on the HS level. It is not a job by the hour. It is a salaried position that is very time consuming and involves dedication. Part of being a teacher for juniors involves writing recs....not for EVERY kid in the class but for those who you are comfortable writing for, or in some cases, who are required to have a rec from that subject area from 11th grade. The kids have to have these. The teacher should not be able to derail this kind of process for kids. </p>
<p>I also agree with NSM that for a teacher to proclaim he/she doesn't know ANY of the students well enough is incompetent or not dedicated or lazy. A student who is requesting a rec, however, should prepare a letter to the teacher reminding him/her of highlights of their time in that class, their strengths, things they are proud of, things they want the college to know about them, etc. to help to solicit an effective recommendation and to help the teacher. So, the student plays a part in that but the teacher needs to be willing to write the rec. In the OP's son's case, the student is required to have a rec from this subject teacher. If the teacher is refusing to do so, I certainly would take it up with the school....guidance counselor or principal....and ask how to proceed. I ran into my kids' Chem Honors teacher from junior year recently and it happened to be a day off from school for teacher's convention and I was mentioning about teacher recs and she said she had her work cut out for her that day (her day off) as she had 30 to write. She would never say no in a million years. It goes with the territory. </p>
<p>I am a college counselor. I currently have a client at a public school where the student's teacher(s) announced that they would not be writing ANY recs during the month of November....something to do with a contract they were embroiled in about "work to rule." Imagine, the month of Nov. when many recs get written for seniors! Her recs may not even meet some of her colleges' deadlines. The parent spoke to someone and apparently the principal was made aware of this and has talked to the teachers that this is not acceptable and the recs need to be written. And frankly, it is NOT acceptable! I say this as a former teacher myself.</p>
<p>I completely agree with NSM. It is part of the <em>responsibility</em> of teachers, especially those who teach 11th and 12th grade classes, to be prepared to write recommendation letters.</p>
<p>It is certainly reasonable for a teacher to decline to write a recommendation for a particular student, or to inform said student that they would not be able to write a favorable recommendation.</p>
<p>In the case in question, the teacher is THE ONLY ONE who can write the requested recommendation. The student does not have the option of going to another teacher. It is clearly unreasonable for the teacher to deny the student. If s/he doesn't know the kid well enough, s/he can ask the kid to provide a resume and have a 15-minute meeting, or simply provide the factual kind of rec NSM suggests. If the teacher is unwilling to perform the duties normally associated with teaching the subject at that grade level, it's time to find another job.</p>
<p>I am not a complainer, but if my kid got this kind of response from a teacher I would be in touch with the department head IMMEDIATELY.</p>
<p>So back to the original dilemma... Before heading off to administration, the student should present the situation (privately) to his teacher and ask for how he would recommend handling the reference requirement, being respectful of the teacher's earlier blanket statement. If he says something to the effect of "that's your problem" then move on to admin. I'm guessing this isn't as black and white as was announced in class. But either way I see no harm in asking for advice.</p>