Cousin’s son ended up in NY, moved in with NCP to commute to a SUNY because it was much more affordable and doable. Oswego over Kutztown
Interestingly, Penn has the largest net migration of students into the state (16,816 in 2016), as compared to any other state. I’m assuming it’s due to the large number of private schools (and about 35% of students are OOS at Pitt and PSU).
https://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d18/tables/dt18_309.10.asp?current=yes
It is very easily to debate whether Penn state, Pitt and Temple are Pennsylvania’s Flagship(s). I think PSU is viewed as a flagship…typically it is the state’s 1st public university or the one that is given the most financial support. They are state related and are not requires to share information as the true state(PASSHE) schools are required to do. See the Sandusky scandal for more information on not having to make records public. Nonetheless, PA is complicated.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commonwealth_System_of_Higher_Education
The state system finally has a leader that understands the importance of higher education and its importance of growing the middle class.
http://chancellorgreenstein.blogspot.com/
I have heard people call the parts of Pennsylvania between Philly and Pittsburgh - Alabama. I am not sure if it relates to the underappreciated of higher education, or that it is less available(yes…I know that it is referred that way because of the #'s of NRA members as well).
The PA State Legislature does not value Higher Education and for years the center of the state has been heavily influenced by PSU and their branch/community college type system. This should really be studied as well.
One thing that people miss is that much of the loan issue for the PASSHE schools are because those students are required to borrow more money because they do not have the family support that many PSU students have(household incomes for average students is significantly different).
Ohio schools near PA boarder offer Youngstown State, Cleveland State, Kent State, Akron for equal or less than the PASSHE system.
I don’t see closures as a good option. Education should be #1. Perhaps reinvention to include more specialty trades and such. If you have ever been to Clarion PA, you would know that closing that school would destroy that area. Sure, West Chester, Bloomsburg and Slippery rock are fine and healthy…but closing some of the others would be devastating. Most of the PSU Branches have only been open for the past 20-30 year or less. Closing or reducing those should be the priority in my (not so important) opinion.
It may be an overly simplified reference more to general politics or racism, rather than higher education.
Parts of Pennsylvania have the uneviable distinction of being mentioned as places with high rates of web search for insulting terms for black people: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/web-searches-reveal-in-aggregate-what-were-really-thinking/ and https://people.cs.umass.edu/~brenocon/smacss2015/papers/StephensDawidowitz2014.pdf (note that table A-1 shows Pennsylvania with a higher rate of racially charged web searches than Alabama).
Actually the area is more often referred to as “Penntucky” and it is in reference to rural and poor white areas.
So more of the same? Keep things the same because that’s what we’ve always done? Tax and Spend? Throw more money at PASSHE schools to solve problems (whatever that may be)? The article used “scary” in the headline to evoke some type of fear.
Look at the admin and overhead salaries at some of the schools. Crazy. For example, using Lock Haven University. The head field hocky coach made a $125,091 plus benefits in 2018 for probably 9 months of work. The average income in Clinton county is $48,000/year. The school only enrolls 2,800 undergraduates. This is for a PASSHE school. What exactly is the mission of these schools? Education or the college experience? We have flagships and private colleges for the college experience.
We’ve thrown money at PASSHE schools the past 20 years. Has anyone on CC set foot on a PASSHE school campus lately? Look at the dorm/campus ratings on Niche. PASSHE schools are rated higher than our flagships and some highly rated private colleges. Maybe that’s one of the reasons why the cost has gone up? What about the curriculum? Has it been updated to what businesses want? Should PASSHE schools offer so many degrees? I’d be curious to see student debt by major from the PASSHE schools and PSU branches. Maybe these are the reasons for enrollment declines?
At what point do we re-evaluate what we’re doing with higher education and our campuses? It’s time to think outside the box. Spend wisely instead of spending more. College enrollment has been declining for almost 10 years. There aren’t enough kids in Pa. Pitt and PSU are 30-40% out of state students. It will only accelerate from today. The world changes. Demographics change. Pa needs to change with it. Do we really need 14 PASSHE schools and 24 PSU branches? What exactly is the mission of these schools other than growing?
https://govsalaries.com/salaries/PA/lock-haven-university?calendarYear=2018
https://archive.triblive.com/news/many-cal-u-employees-paid-more-than-100000-per-year/
What does this have to do with the topic? Stereotyping?
I grew up in “Pennsyltucky” although I’m originally from St. Louis (close to Ferguson). I didn’t know what the KKK was until we moved to Pa. I’ve lived many other places including the deep south. I’ve always said the most racist people I’ve met live north of the Mason-Dixon line and they’re not always from rural areas.
Back on topic. I’m a huge believer in Education. I just don’t think Pennsylvania is using it’s funding and resources in the most efficient manner and throwing more tax money at it won’t fix it.
From the Chancellor and this is the data he provided and this is why I think spending money on Higher Education in PA is not a waste and it should return to the levels that was 20 years ago…it has been slashed not increased over the past 20 years.
http://chancellorgreenstein.blogspot.com/
The data show how valuable our System is. Consider this:
More than 70% of our graduates live and work in the state of Pennsylvania.
38% of our graduates work in high demand STEM, business, and health-related fields.
Our graduates earn, on average, $450,000 to $1,300,000 more over the course of a lifetime (depending on program of study and years to graduate) than people whose education ends after high school, and in terms of their earnings have repaid their investment in public higher education within 9 to 18 years of graduation.
Students who graduate with liberal arts degrees do nearly as well with respect of their earnings as those who graduate in business, STEM or health fields.
Three of our universities are the number one employer in their county (eight are in the top 10), and annually they return $11 in economic impact for every $1 invested by the state.
If investment in Higher Education stops or even cut further…there isn’t a positive future for Pennsylvania.
Nobody said anything about stopping funding or that education is a waste. Just use the money more efficiently. Yes, maybe there should be some cuts and consolidation but that happens over time for all entities. The article uses “fear” to persuade people to tax and spend more. That will solve all the problems. Baloney.
Do you think paying a Head Field Hockey coach $125K plus benefits is wise? Especially at a DII public school with 2,800 students in a county with an average income of $48,000. The math doesn’t work. Look at other salaries for PASSHE schools. It’s incredible.
Again what is the mission of PASSHE schools and PSU branches? Education, the college experience, or tax funded jobs or some combination? If you answer anything other than “Education” then you get what you get…higher costs.
Look at the salaries of other professions. Median salary of a Software Developer is $102k. A PA is a $105k. A DII head field hockey coach at small public university in middle of nowhere is $125k. Look at other titles that have “assistant”. Salaries at $150k and up. Really? How does that math work?Especially for public schools, when the average US income is around $60k/year?
So maybe if I pay a field hockey coach $150k/year or assistant to the assitant $200k/year all the students will come flocking back to PASSHE schools and all will be better?
https://money.usnews.com/careers/best-jobs/rankings/the-100-best-jobs
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_States
What would cost less, continuing the current system, or doing the following?
- Consolidating the PASSHE campuses into fewer larger campuses with full ranges of majors.
- Consolidating the PSU and Pitt branches into the CCs and upgrading the CCs to be suitable to transfer to any CSHE or PASSHE school.
- Upgrading in state FA, including coverage of living costs for those out of commuting range.
Re-evaluating salaries and cutting dead wood. Dead wood meaning people, programs, and campuses.
Personally, I think the programs are mostly solid. I think it’s demographics and cost. There are truly less kids to go around and the cost has gotten to be too much FOR WHAT YOU GET.
Time to consolidate and look at cost structure and flattening the educational hierarchies at these schools. How many deans, assistant deans, assistant provosts, assistant to the assistant do you really need? Do these type of schools really need to offer non-revenue generating sports?
So if the marginal campuses were closed, how would you want to handle affordability for those who no longer have a campus in commuting range?
Not sure that commuting is a huge issue. PASSHE schools and some PSU branches have dorms. Nice, new dorms. Plus commuting has costs too so really it’s the incremental costs of commuting vs dorming that are relevant.
Pa has so many colleges. Most college age kids live near a PASSHE school, PSU branch, or CC. It’s the rural areas are dying off. In the last 9 years, four of the schools have lost 40%+ enrollment. I doubt it has much to do with choice as much just math. Less industry + aging population = less kids. Look at the drop in US birth rate and then amplify that for rural PA.
Different story for Pittsburgh and Philadelphia. Not major growth but still growing. The PASSHE schools near the cities (West Chester) have stabilized or grown (except Cheney).
PSU branches are also on the block. Thirteen out of the twenty branches serve less than a 1,000 students and that should continue to decrease due to demographics.
That said, I’d look at online options or vouchers. Much cheaper than salaries and maintenance. As for closing/consolidating…that’s happening anyway without any help from legislators. Again, demographics.
The article is disingenuous. It pushes the narrative that it’s a funding issue. It’s not. It’s a demographic issue. Wait until 2026. That’s the year of the large birth rate decline from 2008.
Here’s another angle to the story. The Trib is one of the few more conservative newspapers left but at least it provides a different perspective.
The rural HS I attended roughly 30 years ago now graduates half the number of kids. Same for other schools in the area. Some graduate 20 kids per year now. Five to ten years from now probably halved again. Local school districts are in the same boat as colleges for cuts and consolidating. There’s just no political will to do it. It will happen sooner or later.
Although commuting is not zero cost, it is typically lower cost than dorming. The incremental cost may push a student from being barely able to afford college as a commuter to not being able to afford college if dorming or living near campus is required.
Maybe. Slippery Rock double room dorm costs $1,744/semester. Commute an hour each way 3 days a week for 16 weeks. Gas, wear and tear, insurance plus lost time. Probably a wash or close to it. I think there’s a food plan requirement but you still have to eat. Again the delta isn’t that high.
Penn state has 21 campuses and enrollment is down at 17 of them. Most of these branches have been created in the past few decades(permitted by the State Legislature) to compete with PASSE and Community Colleges. Many are just community college with a super high price tag. Keeps the money in the PSU System and allows hope to those that commit two years at a branch will get to attend University Park…but many can afford when they get the chance.
Rebrand all of those PSU Branches(Behrend does provide an excellent experience)/close them or name them Community Colleges and charge the appropriate fees. PSU Beaver is in the processing an Assistant Athletic Director for $78,000/year. They have 720 students. Within 5 minutes they have Beaver County Community College, and Geneva College . Geneva was founded in 1848 and Beaver County College founded in 1966. PSU Beaver the same year when they convinced the state to sell them an old sanatorium to compete with the community college.
I agree it is about the numbers. I still believe the PASSHE Schools deliver excellent value in many areas(not all) and provide a 4 year college opportunity. It should be noted that I am a graduate of the system and a former commuter so I am biased.
Having said that, with a few tweaks, mergers, re-positioning…the bones are there for a solid restructuring…if we could get a complete and full understanding and commitment from the legislature.
There is a lot more to Pennsylvania’s educational woes than is being discussed here–or openly discussed anywhere. Falls under the heading of “Politicians & Corruption”.
Not sure if still prevalent, but there was a “pay to play” system in many Pennsylvania high school districts for decades. Probably entrenched in the state public college system as well.
Tremendous amount of waste & needless repetition.
@Publisher Agree that Pa is one of the worst. School boards are legendary abusers of “pay to play” and nepotism. I’d also throw in backwards thinking. Amazing how many high schools are broke yet can somehow drop $ to build new football stadiums and facilities.
Personally I think the PASSHE schools are good value. Average yearly cost is $22k and the curriculum is up to date. It’s the salaries of non-essential personnel that I have an issue with. No way a field hockey coach should make $125k/year. Might be the nicest person ever but not worth that amount. Between PHEAA, Pell, loans, and work a student should be able to afford a PASSHE school, at least in-theory.
I also think PSU needs drop about 15 branches. 20+ branches are way too many. Too much redundant costs for branches that have less than a 1,000 kids. Ohio State has 5 branches? Illinois has 3? Rutgers has 3?
We’ll see if legislature has the will.
NYS finances its colleges and universities, gives each of them a flagship program (be it fashion or engineering) and it’s tuition free up to 125k income. Yes there’s expensive R&B, yes it’s last dollar, and yes 125k isn’t the be all end all in terms of cutoffs, but the state has better odds of keeping its educated residents. And the decent funding (not great but not abysmal cuts like what happened in PA) means they can attract OOS students.
PASSHE schools are extremely expensive due to he huge budget cuts. The demographic issues compounded the problem. They also added an unforced, strategic mistake: seeing the need to attract more students from outside a commutable area, they built dorms (not a bad idea in itself), lots of them, luxurious, and… Too expensive for most students.
The new provost is trying to turn things around - each PASSHE campus creates jobs and revenue for communities that can’t afford to lose a source of jobs&income.
Note: Mansfield is on the Marcellus Shale Formation. Lots of foreign companies and opportunities if the campus figures out how to add to their offerings (they’re very good at music and education).