SCEA or RD with currently low test scores?

Hi everyone,

I’m an international student from Canada looking to apply to Yale for biology - my only concern right now are my test scores. My ECs and GPA (4.0) are exactly where I want them to be but I want to retake my SAT tests.

I currently have a SAT I score of 1490 (730 math - ouch, and 760 reading/writing). My essay scores are all 8s. I took 3 SAT II subject tests and got 750 in French, 700 in Biology, and 650 in math (very ouch - I’ve aced all my math classes to date). I do feel like I definitely didn’t study enough and have been dedicating more time recently to retake in October and November.

I’m just not sure whether I should skip SCEA altogether and apply to colleges only through RD, retake the SAT I in October and omit my SAT IIs, or retake my SAT IIs in October and hope a 1490 won’t put me at too much of a disadvantage in the SCEA round?

Sorry about the long post! Thanks so much.

If you were rejected SCEA (I am definitely NOT saying that would happen, clearly I am not involved in the admissions process nor do I have any gauge on what the new SAT scoring is like) would you spend the rest of your time wishing you had retaken them? It is hard enough to second guess things when they don’t turn out the way you had hoped. You are already doing that before you have even applied. If you wait, you will have just as much of a chance as you would have if you were accepted or deferred but you will know you tried one last time on the SAT. But if the rest of your app is not strong enough and you submit scores that you are doubting then you will always wonder and you will never know if it was your scores or your essay or your ec’s or just that there were too many of those like you applying. If you were my kid, I would suggest that you wait. Not to give you a better chance but to give you more time to feel confident in your application. Apply with your best and it doesn’t matter what happens, you did your best.

i would wait until you’re comfortable with your application. There are factors that make SCEA look like it gives more of a bump than it actually does. IMO, and I’m a just a parent, SCEA gives very little benefit other than if you’re lucky enough to be accepted, you can have a relaxing senior year.

Yale, Princeton, Harvard, and Stanford are all on record as saying “We don’t accept anyone in the SCEA round that we wouldn’t accept in the RD round.” That’s basically Admissions-speak for “We accept the best-of-the-best in the early round.”

If you are the best-of-the-best from your high school – meaning if you are academically ranked in the top 1% of all graduates from your HS class and have top test scores – you SHOULD apply early somewhere. That’s true even without hooks, as the very tippy-top students stand a better chance of being scooped up in the SCEA round as they are showing demonstrated interest in one college by applying SCEA.

However, if you are ranked in the top 2% to 10% of your high school class, with great but not off-the-chart test scores, there is a greater likelihood you will be deferred to the RD round so Admissions can compare you with a broader applicant pool.

Given that you have a 4.0 GPA (not sure whether that is unweighted or weighted), I’m assuming you would be in the top 1% of your high school. However, your test scores are on the low side for Yale. Therefore, my recommendation would be to apply to a broad range of non-binding schools in the early round and apply to Yale RD. In that way you will hopefully have at least one college in your back-pocket come mid-December and still have a shot at Yale.

Best of luck to you whatever you decide!

Helped a friend’s son with his app in the last cycle. His guidance counselor at our public school told him he had asked the Yale admissions rep why certain kids in previous class years didn’t get in during RD round when they were qualified. Was told that if they really wanted to get in, they should have applied SCEA to demonstrate their interest bc it would help them even if they were deferred. So, since my friend’s son really wanted to attend Yale, he applied SCEA. He was deferred with his 95 UW GPA (top 2-3% of class) and his 1400/1600 SAT (680 math, 720 critical reading; 2180/2400…780 writing). Applied as a dual English lit/physics major with no hooks, only school level awards (no state, regional, national awards), no out of school ECs and no big wow factor. He was admitted RD and just began his freshman year. What he did have were excellent recommendations and a well written application.

Best of luck to you!

I’d retake the Math subject test in the fall.

@Memmsmom Thank you so much for your reply and I agree with you on the point that taking more time would make me feel more confident. I would have regrets if I was rejected but at the same time I would have regrets to let an early action chance at Yale slide… I am really conflicted and the registration date for the October SATs is coming up. Thank you for putting things into perspective though!

@IxnayBob Thank you for helping me out, I hope that’s all there is as an advantage. It’s tough to gauge whether SCEA will even give me a bump considering my app isn’t finished.

@gibby Hello and thank you for your thoughtful reply! I am ranked top of my class and have great ECs (pres of school board council, paid summer intern at research institute, etc), great recommendations etc… The only thing really holding me back from feeling confident in my app are my test scores. I was hoping to maybe re-do math and biology in October and submit my SAT I scores as is? As an international student who needs fin aid I am worried about the costs at other schools that don’t have good policies for internationals (I’ve compiled a list of schoosl that interest me and have need-blind aid for internationals). Thanks for all your insight!

@RenaissanceMom Thank you for sharing that story with me! It’s things like these that keep me on the fence and give me that glimmer of hope but I can’t help but think that it was a rare situation that had something that my situation doesn’t (eg maybe a stronger personal app or recommendations? Which I am working on and I am thus far happy with, but can always be improved). Thank you for your help.

@bluebayou Thank you for the advice, I was hoping to maybe re-do math and biology in October and submit my SAT I scores as they are for now and re-do in November (they may not reach Yale in time though).

First off, you need to realize that as an international student, your chances are NOT the same as a US applicant – no matter what your test scores or GPA.

Yale (and most other US colleges) restrict the number of international students to about 10% to 11% of an incoming class. With a freshman class of about 1500 next year, that means Yale is seeking to enroll about 150 to 180 international students.

Yale is not as forthcoming with their international student numbers as Harvard, but this will probably give you a ball-park figure for Yale. Go to Harvard’s international student website (http://www.hio.harvard.edu/statistics) and from the pull-down menus select STUDENTS, YOUR COUNTRY, and HARVARD COLLEGE (the undergraduate school). Whatever number you get represents the total number of students enrolled from your country at Harvard College who are freshman, sophomores, juniors or seniors. Divide that number by 4 to get an idea of the number of freshman applicants Harvard admits per year from your country. Given that Harvard’s class size is larger (1660 students), Yale’s international numbers from your country are probably going to be lower.

Harvard doesn’t publish how many applications it receives from each country, so it’s anyone’s guess how many students each year apply from yours. Depending on the country, it could be anywhere from hundreds to thousands of applications – all competing for a finite number of slots. Yale’s numbers (as well as Princeton and Stanford) are going to be about the same. Those are absolutely terrible odds for any student – even those with a perfect SAT score.

Given that you’re an international student, which I missed in your first post (sorry), I’m going to change my opinion. I think you should apply SCEA with your current scores, as I don’t think higher scores will increase your odds of admission as you are not a US applicant.

FWIW: My guess is that a good number of Canadian admits are recruited athletes for the mens and women’s ice hockey teams. That decreases the numbers for academic admits from Canada even further. See: http://www.yalebulldogs.com/sports/m-hockey/2016-17/roster

Best of luck to you!