Schedule too heavy for first year?

So I’m gonna be a freshman this fall and I have already selected my classes for the semester. They are:

  • Chem 1601 & 1601L (102A / 104A)
  • Math 1300 (155A)
  • Fren 2501W (201W)
  • FYWS

I intend to major in chemistry and/or math, and I’m not pre-med. Does this course load seem exceptionally heavy for a freshman?

Also, I’ve been seeing posts floating around the rigor of the 1300/155A sequence, and it’s been kinda psyching me out (psyching me out is an extreme understatement, tbh), especially with the chem class. Should I change the 1300/155A course to 1200/150A? Should I wait and see whether the class would be a good fit or should I not even try to go there?

I wouldn’t say that’s an especially easy schedule, but i think it is doable. Chem and calc will be difficult. First year writing seminar is usually pretty easy. French 201w will depend on how good you are at the language, but will probably be medium to semi hard.

If you aren’t pre med, then you don’t need to be as neurotic about your GPA, so I would say it would be fine to do this schedule. Also if you are considering a chem/math major, you need to take both of those classes as a freshman. How good you want your grades to be is personal. Are you fine with getting B’s? Then this schedule is definitely doable. Do you want all A’s, even though you aren’t pre med? Then you should probably be a bit more cautious.

I did not personally take calc at Vanderbilt so I have no direct perspectives to offer, but I know a lot of people who did. For 155, there were a very small number of super smart individuals who were very skilled at math who didn’t think it was that bad and were able to get A’s. Everyone else thought it was horrible. The people who took 150 said it still wasn’t easy, but they did not seem to detest the class as much. The only difference between the classes is that if you take the 150 sequence you have to take an extra class before linear algebra, so 155 is a little bit of a faster route. I still know math majors who started with 150 though.

It just depends on your math experience. If you haven’t taken AP calc AB, or did take it and didn’t get a 5, then I would advise taking 150. If you are more advanced in math, you should be fine. Take this with a grain of salt, since I am known to be on the more cautious/conservative side about protecting my GPA. Try not to psych yourself out because that hurts you, but I have found that if I am afraid of a class there is usually good reason for it (maybe I have a weakness in the subject), and it is very prudent to be cautious. If you are still unsure about it, there is an extended period of time where you can switch the level of math or foreign language, up to a couple of weeks into the semester. This means that you can enroll in 155, see how it goes for a little while, and drop down to 150 if you don’t like it.

As far as calculus goes, if you’ve taken calculus in high school, the material isn’t all that different. Be prepared though, for whatever reason the professors make it more difficult. I have a lot of issues with the way they approach teaching the introductory math classes. It has just always left a sour taste in my mouth. You can’t really escape it though. That said, if you put in the time, you can do well, you just have to come in with the right attitude.

@Adam5400

Yes, that is exactly the problem (being how its taught, not the material). Although all high schoolers complain, no classes in high school are deliberately unfair. In college, some classes are designed to be overly hard or tricky. For 155, it’s things like being taught by foreign grad students with poor english skills, being assigned a huge amount of homework that is difficult but is not reflective of tests and doesn’t boost your grade, and having standardized tests that are not written by your actual teacher. The tests also seem to be made up of questions that would be the most random/weird variation of a problem you could ever see, and they don’t tell you how you are doing relative to the class average. This all comes together to make for a class where you are forced to waste a great deal of time and it is difficult to prepare for tests. If you’re skilled and confident, you will still do well though.

The reason for this is that the class serves as a designed culling, a bottleneck for premeds/engineers/science students in general. 50% of students come in saying that they are pre med, and there are a bunch of engineers who might not be so good at math. Both of these groups are advised to take 155. It’s no coincidence that 155 is the most failed class at Vanderbilt, and also no coincidence that the bad grades received here cause many students to readjust their academic trajectory.

@fdgjfg

It’s really quite unfortunate that they approach it that way. Last semester my most difficult/time consuming class was not one of the three upper level engineering classes I took. It was, by orders of magnitude, the mid-level math class I took. It wasn’t hard because the material was inherently hard. It was hard because it was so rigidly structured, impractical and more about jumping through arbitrary, unrealistic hoops than learning. I will say that the lectures weren’t bad, but that doesn’t make everything else magically better.

If you can’t tell, I’m not our math department’s biggest fan. It’s definitely filled with very intelligent, well meaning professors, and I’m sure it’s fine for people who want to major in math, but for everyone else my advice is to get through the classes as quickly as possible.

@EternallyVernal

Please don’t read the above as discouragement from majoring in math. I think it’s a completely different experience when you are a major major instead of taking classes as major requirements. You have both more interest and time to devote to the subject, and it may even come easier.

Okay, wow. Thanks you guys. I really appreciate all of the advice you guys have given me. I took AP Calc AB, but my high school did this lottery thing where they choose 5 students at random to take certain AP exams and I wasn’t chosen to take the AP Calc exam, so I have no idea what my score would have been if I took the exam. I was pretty strong in calc, but I’d rather just err on the side of caution. I put myself on the waitlist for one of the Math 1200/150A courses. Hopefully I can get a spot in that class.

I really want to go to a competitive graduate school, so my GPA really does matter to me, but I will definitely be able to live with a few B’s here and there. But I would rather just avoid them as much as possible.

@fdgjfg
About the dropping down a level during the first couple of weeks, would you do that with open enrollment or is that a whole other thing on its own?

@EternallyVernal
Changing math levels is different from open enrollment. See: http://as.vanderbilt.edu/advising/caspar/faculty/faq.php#dropadd

You can change between math levels up to the 10th day of classes. I believe this is a week longer than open enrollment.

@EternallyVernal

There’s the open enrollment period which is like the first week and a half, from the academic calendar this ends on September 2nd. This is the last day that you can enroll in any random class, and you do it online with YES.

What I’m talking about is called the “Administrative Change Period” and goes from September 3-9. You just get a form signed and you give it to the Dean’s office, and you can use it to add, drop, or change course level in foreign language or math. This way, you can see what the course is actually like before you decide to change level. There is also the drop period that goes until October 23rd. Doing this you would just drop the course, and there wouldn’t be any record of a W on your transcript.

I think 150 is a good choice. Honestly, the best pathway to a good GPA is being very careful to not overextend yourself, especially early on in your academic career. As was said above, don’t let this scare you away from a math major. If you take 150 it’s just one extra class, and once you get past the 150 or 155 series, the classes become much more fair. You should get in off the waitlist before the end of the open enrollment period.

The schedule you have is difficult yes, but it is by no means atypical. If you’re premed/engineering/science major, you pretty much have to take two science/math classes in your first year. So you don’t really have a choice in the matter. The good news is that you won’t be alone yay.

I think the general consensus among the math-y people on campus is that only take math 155 if you absolutely have to. This usually means if you’re an engineer. In my math 155 class, all but 2 of us were engineers. Also, I know that you are already nervous about the class, but i just want to emphasize the fact that you should not underestimate it at all. The very first test you have in the class is algebra. No calculus, just simple algebra. Seems easy right? You learned it in 9th grade right? The average on that test was a 75. Students who were in the top 10 of their high school and had 2250+ SAT scores got a 75 on that algebra test. The class is set up for you to fail.

@EternallyVernal I would just like to go against the grain here and advocate that you take the 155 sequence instead of the 150. The university puts more of their 1st year math professors (think never taught a class before, ever) on staff teaching 150 since the material is theoretically slower, but it just results in poor teaching and standardized tests written by people who aren’t teaching any of the 150 sections. The 155 sequence does move faster, but it also has a better set off professors who have a little more control over the way they teach the material and a little more pull with a curve/testing.

I took gen chem, bio, spanish 201w and sociology in my second semester so it’s similar to what you have. It was alright but if you have time management (ie procrastination) issues you might have less free time than you would hope (basically none). I actually spent more time on spanish and soc and did worse on average in those two classes than my chem and bio classes. I also had two labs to deal with while you would only have one

FYWS are supposed to be easy, but if you have a shitty professor, be prepared for a lot of work. I don’t plan on taking a calc class (i’m doing a stats class for my math req), but I have heard 155 is shitty

155 is generally pretty difficult, but for the 155 series your professor determines how difficult it is. There are some 155 professors that require a considerably greater amount of work and have harder tests. Contrast this with the 150 series where the tests are the same between sections and the only real difference is the lectures. I think the best advice is to be sure to look at the professor for the class on rate my professor and make sure they fit your learning/study habits – more so if you are doing 155.

I’ve heard that 150 is far easier than 155 (and is one of the more easier courses overall/STEM course at Vanderbilt) but that was from one person doing well in 150 so I can’t say it’s an accurate description or not

A contrary anecdote, but to share the experience of myself and one of my friends who each took different sections of 150, in both cases the averages on tests sat well in the D or F range and on one of the “easier” tests rose to a low C. Both of us had sections with different professors that by the end of the semester had dropped by half, and in both of our sections half of the students that made it to the final received an F and have to retake. As @adam6400 noted, in 155 your professor determines the difficulty. While this can make your life better or worse, at least the person who controls the expectation also controls the grading, tests, homework, regrades, and any extra credit or credit recovery options. So if they see things are going poorly for their class, they have the power to act to make things better. In 150 everything is controlled by the department since it is a standardized class, which means professors can’t even change the homework on a given night without going to the department heads for approval. This makes it difficult since the person that is teaching your class and seeing strengths/weaknesses doesn’t write the tests, determine the curve, or have any control really over the course. They often don’t even see the tests that will be administered until a few days beforehand, so they are teaching some of the concepts without knowing what will be expected of the students performance. When multiple sections of 150 went to our varied professors with concerns last semester, they simply grumbled they were unable to do anything.
Also, to share the caliber of teaching in the 150 sections, not only are they often 1st time professors but they some of last years were demoted to TA-ing sections and weren’t serving as full course professors after their botched attempts, which is more common than it should be at a school that costs 60k. If you are at all concerned for your GPA, I would go for 155. The material may be faster paced, but the percentage of students receiving As and Bs is higher.

@EternallyVernal : Uhmm…research counts WAY more in graduate admissions. Your GPA need not be super duper high to be competitive for some of the best schools, but it should be reasonably strong by time you get to junior/senior year (many schools only ask for the GPA of those years-they want to see how you did in advanced and graduate courses in your field. For grad. school, level of coursework and engagement in scholarship does matter more so than making A’s in everything or even most…plus those from competitive and elite schools do get “bumps” in the minds of many recruiters. It doesn’t work like prof. school admissions. Strive for A’s, but don’t let it stop you from selecting challenging instructors, especially those who are actually good at teaching. These will provide the best instruction, mentoring, and rec. letters which are all very important if pre-grad).

You want to make sure you get the best training in the research lab and in class before applying as many top graduate schools will “strongly encourage” (basically require) GRE subject tests and ones like the chemistry, physics, or the biochemistry and molec. cell exam are going to be quite the challenge if you took courses on the basis of GPA protection. The biochemistry problems are generally regarded as more difficult than MCAT biology and the chemistry and physics exam require a solid command of quantum for example.

As for your schedule…not bad. That actually looks light in comparison to what I see many chem. majors do at other schools elite or not (in fact, I guess it was similar to mine freshmen year with only ochem and biology. Needless to say sophomore year was much heavier). I’m used to seeing chemistry, physics or biology (because many chemistry majors require biochemistry or chemical biology) along with math (where many chem. majors I’ve seen often skipped single variable altogether and took multi, linear, and/or diff. eq as freshmen) and gen. or ochem (ochem freshman year is common among chemistry majors as well). Also, I believe the hardest thing on your schedule is math. Gen. chem is well…gen. chem, but it isn’t exceptually hard there. The only thing that may be annoying is the fact that gen. chem is apparently standardized (an acquaintance told me it was that way 2 years ago when they were a freshman) so if you get a mediocre instructor, it may be ideal attend the best lecturer’s section if possible. But gen. chem there is pretty standard. You’ll have to work, but they aren’t throwing curveballs or anything. I’ve seen some of the 150/155 math materials there and all I can say is “ouch!” if you get a tough instructor. The exams seemed not overly hard conceptually but more so tricky and tedious. They would basically make the algebra needed before performing the actual “calculus” quite annoying and easy to screw up.

But in general, balance the overall load of courses, but don’t necessarily avoid a rigorous instructor or course in your fields of interest, especially if the reputation of said courses or instructors is better than decent. If they suck, by all means, dodge them. “Avoiding B’s” should not be first and foremost in your mind if pre-grad.

@bernie12
You’re spot on about the intro calculus tests. I (and others I know) have always felt it was kind of ridiculous that the exams were more about algebra than calculus – and purposefully tricky algebra at that.

@Adam5400 : This time, it isn’t a feeling. We had some proofs based instructors (was rare though), but for the most part, the exams weren’t anywhere near as annoying. Very few instructors (which are mostly grad. students and first year tenure track instructors) give exams like y’alls in single variable calculus. This may be because the dept. doesn’t step in like y’alls and lets the instructors run it like they want. So the better instructors (ones that seem they care about teaching and thus give special assignments and format their class differently) tend to have exams kind of like y’alls but “lessers” (those who just want to get their teaching requirement out of the way) tend to give easier exams because there is no pay-off in them ticking off students that likely won’t even major in chemistry, physics or math. Sounds like with 150 there, the dept. is stepping in and forcing a certain level of exam/assignment on students who are in instructors’ courses who could perhaps care less or are not experienced enough. I think both our systems are not that great for single variable but Vandy’s sounds quite a bit more frustrating. Also, most pre-meds in our case, get to take bio-calculus which generally gets stronger instructors.