<p>My D is applying to a number of LACs in the south/midwest. She has a 1390 SAT, 31 ACT, top 10 per cent with a 3.6 unweighted gpa- many honors and APs and good ECs. We won't likely get need-based aid so merit scholarships are important for us. Is it acceptable to "negotiate" after/if offers are made? If so, what is the proper way to go about this that will not offend but is most effective? We don't want to violate proper etiquette but need to maximize opportunities.</p>
<p>Simply tell them that the financial aid package is not acceptable and that you would not be able to pay (of course, don't yell it over the phone). For a student of that calibre, they might make new considerations. The people at the financial aid office will most likely be able to help you optimize the amount of money you can recieve. And tell your D to apply to outside scholarships--especially if there is not enough at the schools she's applying to.</p>
<p>ZZ3</p>
<p>I'm not sure if its proper or not. I know lots of athlete friends who negotiated their "deals" at colleges but I've never heard of doing this based on merit. I would be interested in hearing what other people say about this.</p>
<p>I have never heard of anyone negotiating merit based aid, when need is not a factor.
The only way you could really do it, is if a comparable college offered more in merit aid, and you wanted to attend a different college.
I would say try for the outside scholarships, they aren't much but they add up.</p>
<p>I am with Emerald, as most merit aid ou pretty much know how much you are getting up from:</p>
<p>IF you have a 1300 SAT/ 3.7 GPA you would be eligible for the Joe and willie scholarship at $5000 per year.</p>
<p>I know for a fact that you can negotiate need based, especially if you have a comprable school, ut not merit.</p>
<p>Actually our experience was that the colleges were negotiating merit aid with DS. He received some pretty substantial music merit aid. He made his choice pretty soon after April 1. He was receiving calls from his #2 and safety schools offering MORE merit aid up until almost the end of April, when he wrote them thanking them for their consideration. He had a second 1st choice school which offered him NO merit aid. He did call their finaid office and they said they did not negotiate aid. He went to the other #1 school (they were virtually tied in his mind anyway).</p>
<p>The school son decided to attend told my husband they would negotiate for merit aid when son was interviewed. We felt school was fair and we did not try to negotiate. I was not at the meeting so I don't know the specifics but husband told me that FASFA would not help and might hurt, so we did not do FASFA. ASU music school told everyone at auditions they would not negotiate. I am guessing each school is different.</p>
<p>We did negotiate with Grinnell in 1998 when our D was offered money there as well as at Brandeis. Brandeis gave her slightly more money (although Grin would have been cheaper anyway, because the sticker price was less). D preferred Grin; DH was pullling for Brandeis. I called Grin, told them that D prefered Grin, had gotten slightly more merit money elsewhere (I think I did say at Brandeis), and that while we wouldn't make the choice only on $$, that we'd all feel a lot better about Grin if they could match it. They promised to get back to us that day, and called within a few hours with more money. </p>
<p>Obviously she went to Grin and it was a perfect choice all around. Not only did she love it, but they payed for a summer internship, and they also gave her more money in her senior year - unsolicited, simply because she was a successful student in the department she chose for her major. </p>
<p>Schools like Grin - which have huge endowments and "buy" good students - do negotiate. But I think the fact that I was totally honest and very soft-spoken when I asked helped too. I didn't threaten or say she wouldn't go there - I simply asked them to make it a little easier for us say yes. And they did.</p>
<p>My kids researched the merit awards available at their colleges, wrote letters specifically asking for consideration for the specific awards, including a resume with the letter. Some awards are not given through admissions, and those seemed to be the ones most receptive to this approach. We did not get much feedback from the adcoms. But my kids seemed to get more merit awards than kids with their stats should be getting at their various school, for whatever that is worth. Although many schools state that everyone is considered for the merit scholarships, I do believe it helps to remind them that you are very interested in a specific award. And if you do not get enough from a specific school, there is no reason why you cannot ask if there is anything else available, that it could be a factor in going to that specific school or not.</p>
<p>Yes, you can definitely negotiate (at some schools). By the time a decision had to be made, my oldest had 3 or 4 top choices. There was no one perfect college for him, and finances played a big part of the decision. His offers were for merit aid, and varied across the board from full tuition to nothing. We wrote and explained that although he truly liked their school, we could not justify the difference in costs. While they were not all of totally equal caliber, they were within the same ball park. We weren't comparing Harvard w/ local state for example.</p>
<p>Here's the range of responses we received:</p>
<p>School A sent back a form they have for exactly this purpose (comparing other offers). School B sent a letter offering an additional $8000 "merit" scholarship ( a school which states they do not give merit scholarhips). Realize some schools package their need based aid as merit aid, because they feel that students are more honored to receive the merit package. School C sent a rather terse reply implying my son should be honored with what he already received from them. He was actually leaning toward school C until this reply, which partially turned us all off . They could have handled it in a much nicer way in our opinion, simply by suggesting he apply for outside scholarships, or offering their national merit aid (which was stated in the catalogue, but not discussed in his personal aid offer). School D never even answered, but they originally offered nothing, and their tuition was very high, so it was an easy choice to let go.</p>
<p>Aid can be negotiated, and the stronger the student is vs. the rest of the school's applicant pool the more likely it is to be successful. Be sure to apply for financial aid during the application process, since that's sometimes a requirement to be considered for merit aid. Review each college's materials. Sometimes they have scholarships that must be applied for separately, although most state that applicants are automatically considered.</p>
<p>As kjofkw's informative and useful post shows, numbers are your friend. Having a couple of extra schools that the student likes and would gladly attend increases the probability of an outstanding aid offer from at least one. An extra $50 app fee could save thousands.</p>
<p>Once you get to the negotiation stage, be honest. If you have extenuating circumstances (NOT the increasing cost of owning a Lexus SUV!), detail those - they may give an aid officer an excuse to award a bit more money.</p>
<p>Like kjofkw, my experience varied. Some schools held firm, while others seemed to improve their offer merely for being asked.</p>
<p>is this merit thing for international students too and is it at any university??</p>
<p>Fisher and Ury popularized the notion of "Best Alternative To Negotiated Agreement" in their book "Getting to Yes" about negotiation. This is the fundamental pillar to negotiating power, whether you're buying a car or a college education. Having a strong alternative (and making sure the other side knows you do) is the key to strength, since it lets the other side know what you may choose to do if you can't reach an agreement. Knowing you'd be happy with a Ford and that you've found a model you like down the street at a price you'd pay is a lot more incentive to the Chevy dealer to give you a good price than any brow-beating or yelling you do.</p>
<p>In negotiating with colleges, your power comes from other offers. Pleading doesn't work, as many parents can attest. What does work is having offers from other colleges they view as their peers, information you convey to them in a non-threatening manner (eg. don't threaten to send your child to X unless they match or beat the other offer). If they want your child, they have the power to match or come close.</p>
<p>And negotiation only works if they want the child badly enough. There are times when there is no more negotiation. My friend's son wanted CMU very badly and he did get in but they did not offer much aid. In fact their offer was very meager,the worst. Though both he and his mother showed other more generous offers from comparable schools (better, by many opinions) and CMU is a school that openly solicits other offers and are amenable to negotiation, they only came up with unsubsidized loans in the amount of $800 more, no where near what was needed. Since the boy was from Pittsburgh, I don't think they were that interested in another Pittsburgh engineering major. Had he been from the midwest or studying a discipline where more students are wanted, it might have been a different story.</p>
<p>I wish I'd known this when D1 was in the decision process. It might have made a difference. I had heard of people negotiating but didn't have the excellent information that you all have provided. Another example of how valuable this community is. I'll certainly remember it in 2 years for D2. BTW, how about public universities and negotiating merit aid? I know that most of them don't have much to give, but does anyone have any experience with this? Thanks.</p>
<p>Frankly, CLdad, I don't know many people who got a tremendous amount more from negotiating unless there was a mistake or some key information was not taken into account. I hear stories, yes. But I have not seen big bucks from the negotiations. Now that is just my observation, and it certainly is worth while trying. I have often seen people leave out a tidbit on their financial aid apps, just to have an "in" to negotiate. And of course, having juicier offers from comparable schools helps the cause. But even with all of this, the new amount is usually within $1000, and often in the form of loans.</p>
<p>You may indeed be correct, Jamimom, that few people get significant amounts through negotiating - I really don't have a big enough sample to comment. But small increases help too. When we did it for D, we "only" got another $1000 a year - but that meant $4000 over four years - not bad for a quick phone call! :) </p>
<p>PS - BTW, I always enjoy your posts!</p>
<p>Please don't get me wrong. I am not trying to bash negotiating. But too many people go into this first of all thinking that they are going to get lots of money (merit for their bright student, athletic for their athlete, financial aid if they feel they can't afford the tuition) and are bitterly disappointed. They then hear anecdotes of all of these people getting more out of a school, and feel that this is the way to go. Then they feel inadequate when the school basically tells them that they are free to send the kid to College B that is offering more. It is wise to go into this understanding that it does not always reap big bucks. Worth a try, certainly, but really the way it works in this country is that a family is responsible for paying for college. Many times requests for more money are met with loan offers that the parent could have gotten without the college's help.<br>
Heck, my son got a $50 scholarship. $50 a year. But $200 is $200. He certainly did not put his nose up to it. He was delighted each year he got the check. Every little bit helps. And negotiating can be valuable for future years as you can then gauge the tone of the financial aid office and get a better idea of what is available and how they work.</p>
<p>Negotiating works if you're a highly desired candidate and if the competitor is considered a peer institution with which the school is locked in a death struggle. Works with MIT vs CMU, works with HYP (you may not consider this a merit aid situation, but remember that aid nomenclature is fungible).</p>
<p>As with all negotiating, it helps if you have some idea of the amount of leverage you have. Remember that many schools use merit aid as a marketing tool to increase the apparent quality of students attending the school, at least insofar as that can be determined from test scores and other stats - as opposed to "rewarding" the student for being a great student in general. </p>
<p>So when you receive the merit aid offers (hoping that there are multiple offers), compare your student's stats (SAT scores, GPA, class standing, etc.) with those of last year's freshman class, school by school, and with those of this year's freshman accepted students (which some schools, at least, will disclose, maybe even trumpet). You will have more leverage to negotiate if your student is in the top 10 - 25% of either class (especially this year's) than if he/she is in the middle (though even then you may have some leverage). If your student is way up there near the top, of course you'll have even more leverage (although you may have to deal with a belief at that school that the student really doesn't want to go there).</p>
<p>How much the leverage can produce of course will depend to a great extent on how interested the school is in having your student attend. One or a few phone calls to the admissions and financial aid offices might clarify that.</p>
<p>Otherwise I concur with the comments above on negotiating.</p>