<p>My D is taking her last OV this weekend. All of the schools have told her they would love to have her (XC/track). There has been mention of athletic scholarship being offered, but nothing official or dollar amount discussed. There is one school that is at the top of her list. </p>
<p>My question is, how does the scholarship offer work? Should she tell Coach "A" that she wants to commit before he makes an offer? We just don't know what the next step should be. Do we wait for the coach or should DD be proactive in letting her intentions be known?</p>
<p>I would have her call or email the coach and just let them know she is interested and that you are looking at a few offers and would like to know what athletic aid is available to her. The coach may not have exact information and some schools prohibit coaches from putting that figure in writing (email) until the athlete commits but they should have a good ball park figure available.</p>
<p>My son got verbal offers before committing. I would not make a commitment until you hear the offers. As Steve said have your D communicate to the coaches that she is ready to make a decision but your family needs to look at the financial picture to see what works best. The only thing that might be an issue is the offers were given on unofficial visits on campus. I think Steve might be correct in that they cannot make an offer via email. I do not know about verbal offers over the phone. Definitely ask!!! The coaches understand that athletes need this info.</p>
<p>We did not negotiate but when we were asked questions about how our finances were, we just responded honestly and said that our son has some money set aside for college (from his gpa) and it is his money so the less he has to spend on it for college the more of it he gets to keep for himself. I do not think our response really had much to do with his offers, I believe the coaches know what they can/cannot give each athlete and it will depend on how much they want your kid. I do not know of anyone who negotiated either. I think it would be uncomfortable to do so and perhaps start off the relationship in a weird way… Just my 2 cents though, others may feel differently.</p>
<p>Subject to time constraints, your daughter can and should try to negotiate the best deal with each coach. Negotiations will reveal a lot about how much each coach wants her. The tricky part (assuming multiple offers) will be deciding how much weight to place on the athletic offer versus academics/overall team fit/overall school fit/other finanicial aid. Still, it’s better to make the decision after getting the best offers on the table and with full information regarding where each school stands.</p>
<p>I also recommend that the parent monitor all offers closely and be ready to become directly involved in negotiations if the player appears to be in over his or her head. But I think others on this board may disagree with me on this last bit of advice, so reasonable minds can differ.</p>
<p>I’m a firm believer that the student should directly handle and manage all of the interactions with the coach about - why do you want to go to X - tell me about yourself - what are your grades - stats - and also asking questions of the coach about the school, the team, etc.</p>
<p>But “negotiating the best deal?” I can’t see most 17-year-old kids handling that well.</p>
<p>Do the colleges actually expect that? Not to have the parents jump in and participate?</p>
<p>I don’t know what evertonnut sport is or how their recruiting experience is or was but at least in my son’s sport negotiating would be inappropriate in my opinion. Maybe in revenue sports that would be considered the “norm” but I would think in equivalency sports where they have to split up the athletic scholarship money between team members I would expect the offer would be what they can do for the player period. I also agree that when talking finances it is important for the parent to be part of the discussion or at least be in the loop 100%.</p>
<p>momof2010, my sons play soccer. By “negotiations” I mean not simply assuming the coach’s first offer is his or her best offer, and at least trying to get a better offer. In my experience, most coaches do not give their best offer first. After all, they have limited scholarships, and each 10% can be precious.</p>
<p>So, while I would never recommend a player give ultimatums or negotiate as if he were at a swap meet, I do believe telling the coach that dollars are a consideration, or that the player cannot attend without a certain % (if true), is well worth the effort. </p>
<p>My experience is limited to soccer coaches, so I suppose the coaching fraternity in other sports may look down upon such a direct approach. But in men’s soccer, I believe most coaches will not be offended by a player (or parent) trying to get the best scholarship possible.</p>
<p>^^Makes sense, and perhaps we lucked out in not having to be put in a position to negotiate as what was offered worked for us. Copied and pasted below here is something interesting about equivalency sports and scholarships written by a D1 coach for mens golf on a blog this coach does… First is the question from someone and then his response… </p>
<p>When I look at what schools recruited players I find it surprising that a school will recruit a few top players and then someone way down on the list, why is that?</p>
<p>Scholarship is a huge part of all the decisions we make. Nowadays, to get elite talent most schools need to give an elite level scholarship. Because there are only 4.5 total scholarships for each program when you give a couple or a few very large scholarships the average for the rest of the team goes way down.
Right along with how much a coach likes a recruit and how they evaluate their talents comes a question of what scholarship it will take to get them. So there might be players that a coach wouldn’t want at 25%, but that they would love to have at 5%.
A coach is always recruiting under lots of constraints that the recruit and their family may or may not know. Often we have very little scholarship to work with and only ones we could get are those that are “further down the list” as you say.
Ten years ago there were many more middle percentage scholarships, but the trend seems to be going to more high scholarships and more low scholarships.
The last thing I would say on this is that a coach’s “list” may be very different than the various official rankings. To really get an edge on the competitors a good recruiter will see value where others don’t. They will see the up-and-comer. What might appear as “down the list” to many could be the top of the list for a certain coach. I always try to look at recruits through my “three years from now” glasses.</p>
<p>momof2010, D1 mens soccer coaches only have 9.9 scholarships to give (if fully funded), and they usually carry around 25-28 players per team, so they have to be very careful when offering a scholarship beyond 50%. Usually a few players will be recruited walk ons and the rest will be on scholarships that can vary from full costs to attend (tuition, room & board, books, fees) to only books. But getting a full ride for all four years is rare in mens soccer.</p>
<p>The 9.9 scholarships are based on the total cost of attendance (averaged out for instate and out of state students as applicable). </p>
<p>The language coaches (and athletes/parents) use differs. Some coaches offer an athlete a full tuition scholarship, which may equate to a 50% coa scholarship. But it sure sounds great to say “full”. Others offer a specific dollar amount, and then equate it to the % of coa OR tuition or whatever. The NLI specifies the dollar amount.</p>
<p>In my experience, the best coaches offer a % of the cost of attendance and then clarify that the % will remain the same or go up as the $ of coa increases.</p>
<p>Also, the 9.9 men’s D1 soccer scholarships are for the entire roster, freshmen through seniors. So in any given year the coach of a fully funded program may have 2-3 full scholarships available to use in recruiting freshmen.</p>
<p>In our experience the coach didn’t have much leeway to negotiate the athletic money. They typically had some pull on the academic side and could talk with admissions to find more academic funds if the student has the right numbers to justify the extra funds. Several schools DD looked at had their COA for athletes right on their website, others we just asked. That is the number the school uses to base “full rides” on.</p>
<p>The NCAA only allows scholarships for tuition, room and board, books and fees. They also approved a $2,000/yr stipend but I am not sure when that goes into affect. If a coach offers a percentage of cost of attendance, that COA amount can ONLY include what is allowed by the NCAA, it is irrelevant what the school considers in its COA. Where the school’s actual COA really comes into play is when there are scholarships outside of athletic scholarships because a student on an athletic scholarship can only receive scholarship money of any kind up to the COA. My daughter received several academic scholarships as well as her athletic scholarship and the school adjusted her first year COA to include the purchase of a department spec’d laptop and to reflect her above the school average travel expense. This kept her outside academic scholarships from counting against the team total scholarship dollars and allowed her to get the maximum benefit from her scholarships. </p>
<p>Also, I don’t think it is fair to say “the best coaches offer a % of the cost of attendance and then clarify that the % will remain the same or go up as the $ of coa increases”. Coaches are bound by what the school allows them to give and many schools prefer to give dollar amounts rather than percentages. A percentage scholarship it is a better deal for the athlete for sure, but I don’t think it is any reflection on the coach if he/she is only able to offer dollar amounts.</p>
<p>This is a great thread IMHO because a lot of folks have THAT question. I agree with momof2010 and SteveMAthat you should seek verbal offers before any commitment. Letting the coach know you are interested in the school and “available” will be enough of a “cue” to find out if they are interested.</p>
<p>In terms of negotiation, I think it depends on the sport, and depends on the school. Patience can be a virtue. Son received a 25% place holder offer to a private school ($50K) in May 2010. The offer jumped to 50% (same school) a month later simply by waiting. We did nothing except wait and seek more offers which we did. An in-state “public Ivy” offered 25% (of $18K) in JUly 2010, and never changed their offer. So, forcing the issue may or may not get you the desired outcome. Possibly waiting may get you the desired outcome.</p>
<p>I’ve read and experienced that it may be better to negotiate with the Financial Aid office than with the coach. Negotiating over a few % points that are fixed by the NCAA and the athletic budget of the school seems trivial when you compare it to the resources of the entire school IMHO. Going to the Financial Aid office or the Colleges Business Office makes more sense. I’ve personally talked to my oldest son’s FA office, and they are willing to work with you beyond the Federal numbers that you provide. I talk to them every semester. They’ve made two changes in our favor for our need based FA package. I plan to do the same with my middle son when he starts at his first choice state school (engineering) in August. I don’t expect much with the state school, but the private schools seem to have some latitude in my experience. Good luck.</p>
<p>ahsmuoh, the NCAA allows D1 mens soccer to give 9.9 scholarships covering tuition, room and board, books and normal fees. Team travel, trainers, gear, tutors, priority registration, preseason lodging etc are included (or can be per NCAA). Travel to and from home and campus is not included. Many programs are “fully funded,” meaning the coach can offer the full 9.9, but some schools have less than 9.9 to offer.</p>
<p>As varska points out, the 9.9 cap is for the entire team, freshman through seniors, so usually a coach usually has at most 2 or so scholarships to divide among all incoming freshmen. Not surprisingly, a full scholarship for all four years is rare in mens soccer, because 21-22 year old men (seniors) are on average better than 18 year old boys (freshmen), so coaches usually weight scholarship percentages toward proven juniors and seniors.</p>
<p>Womens soccer coaches have I believe 14 or so scholarships to offer, and I have heard (second and third hand though) that 75% offers and even 100% offers to freshmen are not rare in certain programs.</p>
<p>As others have pointed out in past threads, the bottom line is this: most student athletes in non revenue sports have to devote a tremendous amount of time and energy for a relatively small amount of scholarship dollars. Of course, if the student athlete truly loves his/her sport and really loves trying to get better and competing, it’s a great journey.</p>
<p>fenwaysouth–that may have been the case in your situation but I wouldn’t bank on waiting and getting more money. It’s very possible that if you wait too long that opportunity will be totally lost too. It’s really not a time to play games. Be upfront with the coaches, let them know where they stand and where you are financially. I’m sure a couple girls got better offers at the schools our DD turned down because DD turned down her offer there, not because they waited. DD was the top recruit at every school she applied to and as a result, was offered a higher amount then other kids. Once her dollars were freed up, the coaches most likely offered those funds to other kids. In one school her initial verbal offer was about $1000 higher then the actual offer that came over. That $1000 went to a girl on the team that had an outstanding freshman year–and was well deserved. The coach also said to let her know if she needed more money and she would find it through academic means.</p>