Scholarships

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of North Carolina - Chapel Hill
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<p>^^ Yep, rom, I was just responding to golfer’s comment about home schoolers looking less “outgoing” on paper. I know “holistic” includes a number of factors, but I’m not sure what they are; I do know ECs play a role…and, since golfer mentioned “outgoing,” I figured that must be part of it. </p>

<p>I do think that the system puts home-schooled kids at a disadvantage – e.g., no way to weight GPAs, even if the curriculum in rigorous; far fewer opportunities for ECs, especially for those of us who live in rural areas. </p>

<p>For some reason, I’d assumed that kids in unusual situations (home schooled; poorer rural counties) would be at an advantage, but just the opposite seems to be the case. When you look at lists of UNC merit awards from previous years, you get the impression that counties like Wake and Mecklenburg(sp?) dominate. Yes, I understand, there are lots of stellar kids in those counties…but there are some hidden gems in poorer rural counties, too. </p>

<p>The MOST selective colleges (esp. the Ivies) seem to value geographic, income, and lifestyle diversity (Harvard is especially friendly toward home schoolers); but second- and third-tier schools seem to employ a more formulaic approach. I understand that they face a daunting task in combing through the essays and recs and stats of more than 5,000 admitted students. Nonetheless, I wish they’d think just a bit outside the proverbial box.</p>

<p>But I’m tired of beating this dead horse, at this point. I’m sorry that I whined (“whinjed,” as my kids would say) and vented my raw, unprocessed feelings earlier this week. We’re over it now and thinking in terms of the Bama full ride. I do wish DS could go to school closer to home, but the Bama Honors College is fantastic, the dorms are awesome, and the opportunities are abundant. I’m sure it all works out in the end for all the brilliant kids here at CC. :)</p>

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<p>“I got a full ride from a public university in my area and I know I can’t compare schools, but I do hope for just a bit of something…”</p>

<p>That’s how we feel, too, but apparently it’s heresy to feel that way. :)</p>

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<p>sydkneeudy - Congrats on the full ride! UNC, UVA, Michigan and many other state schools do not need to offer merit aid because their pool of applicants is so large. Merit Aid is given to attract students, not to reward them for outstanding high school performance.</p>

<p>There was a great explanation on OOS Waivers on the UVA Forum about why most southern public universities are offering these waivers and full rides to OOS students. Unfortunately, you cannot compare apples to apples when speaking of public universities.</p>

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<p>“Unfortunately, you cannot compare apples to apples when speaking of public universities.”</p>

<p>This is quite true. But perhaps you can compare, say, UNC to the Honors College at an NMF-buying university. The stats for the Bama Honors College kids are quite high.</p>

<p>I am not at all knocking UNC – I know it’s a fantastic school – but isn’t its SAT average somewhere around 1300 CR & M? This is very good but not stratospheric. I would imagine that many state-school Honors Colleges have similar SAT averages.</p>

<p>UNC has fantastic resources, but so do many other publics. DS plans to major in history, and Bama’s history dep’t is awesome. (Its classics department is rather skimpy compared with UNC’s – but then, DS is only minoring in classics; it would be different if he were majoring.)</p>

<p>It’s a trade-off, and there’s a lot to think about. If we were made of money, it would be no contest: DS would attend UNC. But we’re not made of money, so we have to think in practical terms about finances.</p>

<p>It’s so complicated…</p>

<p>Di</p>

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<p>Di - I completely agree with you. We are in the same boat in that we have no choice but to be practical about $$$. We will not know what his options are until 7 weeks from today (but who’s counting…;)) I’ve decided to not worry until I know what we are worrying about. </p>

<p>I think Bama Honors College is an incredible option. They are rolling (no pun intended) out the red carpet for the brightest of kids. </p>

<p>Something to remember is that not all scholarships are given with an invitation to Scholarship Days. I know several students who received full rides to UNC that were not notified until April.</p>

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<p>“I know several students who received full rides to UNC that were not notified until April.”</p>

<p>WOW!!!</p>

<p>Thanks for that–it gives me hope. :slight_smile: (And we’re not even hoping for full ride…)</p>

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<p>Alright, in full disclosure, I have not read a lot of this thread, but I feel like I have actual information that’s not speculative.</p>

<p>Four years ago I went to Scholarship Day and received the Carolina Scholars award. I was also a Robertson finalist though I didn’t receive it. During Robertson weekend Peter Kaufman pulled me aside and spoke to me about his love of Carolina Scholars etc and exactly how the process works. He’s since left Carolina but I’ve always been interested in this kind of stuff (hence being an Admissions Ambassador and lurkin’ around here…) so I found it very interesting and will share here.</p>

<p>People think about numbers in the wrong way for admissions. You will not be admitted anywhere or given anything worth while based off of numbers alone. But you will be rejected from places because of numbers. I’m not saying that’s what’s happening here but it’s worth repeating - so many parents drop their kids’ stats as if that’s evidence alone that they should get something (Lady Di, I promise I am not accusing you, it’s just a good opportunity to say this). That’s how it works for some grad schools, but not at all for college admissions anywhere.</p>

<p>I can’t emphasize enough how important your essay is for Carolina. It’s what determines if you’re pulled aside for consideration for Scholarship Day. Your ECs supplement that. If you’ve got a meaningful, well-written essay, and clearly you’re a leader at your school, AND your teacher recs say “yes this student is not a liar they really are doing all that stuff they say they are”, then that’s what gets it done. Before Scholarship Day even happens, the committee has a pretty good idea of who they’re going to give the Carolina Scholar awards to. But I’m sure changes can happen.</p>

<p>Standing out as a home schooled student is difficult, though certainly not impossible. I think if it’s clear that your kid has been challenged academically and used all that spare time to be heavily involved in his/her community it’s not so bad. There are many kinds of home schooled students, just as there are regular students. Admissions recognizes that. I know the one real challenge for home school students is establishing that the student has actually met certain educational standards, so standardized tests do seem to matter more for them. Preaching to the choir here, probably.</p>

<p>My high school didn’t rank, and if it had, I’m not even sure that I’d get into Carolina. Still, I stood out in what I was doing outside of the classroom. During Scholarship Day I made sure to engage everyone I could in a friendly but not over-the-top way.</p>

<p>If you’re invited to Scholarship Day talk to EVERYONE associated with it. Don’t snub the student at your table! What a dumb idea. Maybe we don’t have a say in who gets scholarships but there’s always the possibility that we have a close relationship with the professors who do. I was so weirded out last year by the students at one of my tables who had absolutely no interest in my presence but wanted to compare their SAT and AP scores with each other. Don’t do that. It’s crass and frankly bad strategy. Be a real person and have a real conversation with everyone.</p>

<p>Addressing the whole ‘Carolina/Harvard isn’t all that’, I’m not even disagreeing. Dumb people graduate from great schools all the time. My brother graduated from Dartmouth and was appalled at all the trust fund idiots that had snuck in. Still, Carolina does have some excellent programs and an education here isn’t anything to sneeze at. I think on the other side of this perspective coin is the idea that NOWHERE is perfect but… a lot of places aren’t so bad! If you went into Bama with a game plan I’m sure you could get a great education. Same with Carolina or Harvard or where ever. If you just float into college thinking that if you graduate with a degree and slack off while you’re there all your life will be swell, things won’t work out very well for you - even if you graduate from an Ivy. At the end of the day it just boils down to the fact that people need to be more mindful in their major life decisions.</p>

<p>I am so glad I went to Carolina, especially with a scholarship, because of all that happens here. I could have the same outcome (going to a top law school) if I had gone to many other schools… really any other school… as long as I made the same grades and had the same LSAT score. But having been in this environment was wonderful for me. I’ve learned a lot and never ever ever want to leave. That’s what matters to me. But America is filled with educational gems. It’s one thing to be proud of about this country! So if Carolina isn’t what works for you, that’s a-okay.</p>

<p>As always, feel free to PM me. And GO TO HELL DOOK! :-D</p>

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<p>LadyDi, I know where you’re coming from. My S is also a NMSC finalist, 2350 SAT, 4.9 WGPA, OOS, with legacy. No scholarships for him either. But no reflection on the hardworking kids; we can’t know the algorithm involved…</p>

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<p>mrdysart, thank you! 2350 SAT – that is freaking amazing. Legacy, too? Whoa. Puts it all into perspective. (Alas, I fear that there is an algorithm – which I’m sure there has to be, but still…this is college, and these are complex human beings, not Google search results!)</p>

<p>You are right: NO reflection on the hard-working kids who got $$$; more power to them. I do not begrudge anyone anything; rather, I congratulate the scholarship recipients. This isn’t about bragging rights. It’s about affording college. Which is why we’re looking at outside scholarships and funding sources, too.</p>

<p>Cloying: Re the essay thing: That’s why I still hope against hope for a non-Scholarship Day merit award of some sort. I know we’re all biased about our own kids (rightly so!), but essays are definitely DS’s strong suit – no question about it. His main essay for Carolina was unique, I guarantee – not in a risky way, but rather in a way that showcased how eclectic and unusual (for a teenager) his interests are. It was also very well written. I don’t want to go into further detail, because then any lurking adcoms will figure out who DS is, conclude that his mom’s a real pill, and disqualify him for scholarships then and there, LOL.</p>

<p>DS took a writing course at a local CC – and blew the teacher away. She then proceeded to write his Carolina recommendation for him. It was incredible. I wept as I read it.</p>

<p>Anyway…I’m sure we could all tell stories like this…there’s a very special group of parents and kids on CC. </p>

<p>I still hold out hope that UNC will somehow prove affordable for us; but if it doesn’t, Bama’s Honors College is a great opportunity, too. </p>

<p>Diane</p>

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<p>“I know the one real challenge for home school students is establishing that the student has actually met certain educational standards, so standardized tests do seem to matter more for them. Preaching to the choir here, probably.”</p>

<p>Yeah, that’s why we put so much emphasis on the SAT subject tests, which show mastery of essential subject matter. DS did extremely well on these tests, but we later learned that most schools do not attach all that much importance to subject tests. Some schools do – Middlebury and Berkeley, for instance – but most do not. </p>

<p>And cloying, I really did not mean to diss UNC (or Harvard, either, for that matter, although I have a pretty jaundiced view of the latter – one of DH’s students, a sophomore history major, once confessed in class that she didn’t have a clue who Napoleon was, and that wasn’t an isolated incident). There are positives and negatives about every school, obviously.</p>

<p>But let’s face it: Here in NC, UNC enjoys an almost cult-like reputation…it is practically worshiped. So, if one dares to suggest that it may not be the be-all and end-all of all that is great and noble in Western Civilization, one draws the wrath of the Tarheel Gods. :wink: </p>

<p>In any event, I am not trying to say, “Oh, my kid is such a genius; he obviously should have gotten some merit aid at UNC.” Rather, I am saying, “I hope he’ll get some merit aid, so he can afford to go to UNC.” This shows our respect for UNC rather than otherwise! As I said earlier, if we were made of money, if money were no object, he would go to UNC, scholarship or no scholarship. No question. UNC has exactly what he needs for his projected major and minor. It even has a Center for Medieval and Early Modern Studies. How cool is that?</p>

<p>Our concerns are purely financial. It comes down to affordability, period.</p>

<p>And no, he is not the sort of kid who would ever dream of sitting at a table sharing his SAT scores. His interests are wide-ranging; that’s why he’s a history major. When you come right down to it, history is the study of everything. :slight_smile: That’s why historians are so interesting. (I know; I’m married to one. :D)</p>

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<p>Di: At this point it’s almost getting to the point where you feel you son DESERVES to be given opportunities for Scholarship Day/Honors Program solely based on the fact that he scored well on standardized tests. Let me reiterate: I think homeschooling him really shows the kind of person you are and I find that to be fantastic and definitely give you my respect, but as of right now, it’s coming across that UNC doesn’t “recognize” home-schooled students. He got in, didn’t he?</p>

<p>Regarding your statement on why people need to be “leaders” or "outgoing’, the answer is really quite simple: Colleges want students who are not only good in the classroom, but good out of the classroom. Think about it like this: If you were a boss and had to decide between two applicants, both being very capable of the job but one of them was an extrovert and portrayed leadership skills, you would most definitely pick the applicant with leadership skills.</p>

<p>My point is that if a college has the ability to choose between Student A and Student B, with Student B conveying a sense of leadership skills, etc, the college would most definitely choose Student B. Leaders are what make our world go round, not the students who can take a standardized test. Remember, professors usually have a certain degree of input in the Scholarship/Honors process; in most college classes, barring the intro freshman classes with 100+ students, a lot of emphasis is put upon the initiative the student takes and how well he/she can work with peers.</p>

<p>If someone comes across as smart yet relatively introverted, colleges would not necessarily desire him/her because they want hard-working students who can contribute to society in the future, not a student who will end up in a lab or working behind a computer all day (just a generalization, I mean no disrespect by it but am using it to make my point). </p>

<p>I understand your frustration in that your son is being given an “unequal” opportunity for these perks (although, in reality, this is not the case; you are using him being home-schooled as an excuse), but you have to understand that UNC only has so much money to allocate to merit aid and unless your son has a distinct, blatant reason to receive a scholarship, will probably not receive it. Remember, UNC won’t know the level of exposure your son has with working with others, especially students, etc, so they would be taking a huge risk by giving that already small amount of allocated aid to your son. Ask yourself this: Does my son have something that really pops out at the admissions officer that screams, “YOU NEED ME!”?. If the answer is no, which it is for 99% of students, then you understand UNC’s case in this matter.</p>

<p>Once again, I am not writing this to put you down or make you feel bad or anything to that extent; I am writing this to simply explain UNC’s case, if you will. I do believe that, by all you have said about your son, he should receive something from UNC, but it’s just not feasible due to the immense freshman class and the small number of students who receive certain perks.</p>

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<p>golfer–Au contraire, I am saying the very opposite of what you’re saying I’m saying. I’m trying to make a very nuanced, complex argument. Most people on this forum get this. You, apparently, do not. That’s fine. But, as I said before, if you don’t like my comments, don’t read them. It’s very simple. It’s true that I’m a verbose windbag, but, nonetheless, my posts are easy to skip. If they rub you the wrong way, skip them. I assure you that I would gladly do you the same courtesy. :)</p>

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<p>Just responding to your post. I never disagreed with you…I’m just pointing out UNC’s side of this case, playing devil’s advocate. </p>

<p>Just as a side note, your posts are pretty hard to skip when each one takes up half a page lol.</p>

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<p>^ Well, as I said, I’m a verbose windbag. I actually write for a living (advertising), so logorrhea comes easily to me, LOL.</p>

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<p>“If someone comes across as smart yet relatively introverted, colleges would not necessarily desire him/her because they want hard-working students who can contribute to society in the future, not a student who will end up in a lab…” [emphasis added]</p>

<p>Oh, you mean like Madame Curie? Or Jonas Salk? ;)</p>

<p>Or how about those Irish monks in their isolated monasteries who managed to preserve Western Civilization in the centuries between the fall of Rome and the rise of the Middle Ages?</p>

<p>[Amazon.com:</a> How the Irish Saved Civilization (Hinges of History) (9780385418492): Thomas Cahill: Books](<a href=“http://www.amazon.com/Irish-Saved-Civilization-Hinges-History/dp/0385418493]Amazon.com:”>http://www.amazon.com/Irish-Saved-Civilization-Hinges-History/dp/0385418493)</p>

<p>I would sincerely hope that any university worth its salt would want to attract all kinds of students, not just shmoozers and blowhards (er, I mean extroverts). (Just kidding. :D) </p>

<p>There are many ways to achieve, during and after college. Public leadership is only one of them.</p>

<p>(What is public leadership anyway? Wall Street? Congress? I think I’ll stick with those obscure, introverted Irish monks, thank you very much. :D)</p>

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<p>Ladydi - I didn’t think you were being disrespectful at all, so no worries. :slight_smile: I used to have a lot more patience on this forum for things but these days if someone says something that I think is annoying or just wrong I’m not too subtle about it, haha.</p>

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<p>You took that out of context, like I said, I used it as a generalization to prove a point that I have actually heard at many universities, including Duke. The examples you provided were a century+ ago, so obviously admissions decisions revolved solely around academics but more so connections.</p>

<p>In today’s admissions, there are SO many students who possess both strong academics and professed leadership skills that students who possess ONLY one or the other quality are kind of tossed to the side unless there is something so desirable that they can’t pass up, aka performing some kind of unique research, publishing a nationally-acclaimed book, etc. </p>

<p>Leadership can be traced to pretty much everything, from professional sports to medicine to law to business to teaching to Intel, not just “Wall Street or Congress”. </p>

<p>That pretty much sums up my whole point. I never thought you were being disrespectful, I just wanted to provide you some insight as to why UNC, or any university for that matter, is doing what they are doing. Why get one thing for the price of one when you can get TWO things for the price of one?</p>

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<p>Just want to say that I admire Lady Di for her tenacious defense…really. I think she makes excellent points. She is also a pleasant, articulate read. “VERBOSE WINDBAG?” When’s the last time you read that? Delightful I say! Lady Di-- some advice—write a book to finance your kids’ educations. I’d buy it because I enjoy reading your posts…you have a unique style. Everyone else…ease up on her.</p>

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<p>mommydeerest,</p>

<p>I’ll second the book. “Postlapsarian”? Really? Had me scratching my head. The trouble is that if they all ease up on her we’ll miss the prose…</p>

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<p>Lady Di, I meant no reflection on OUR hardworking kids. We have soooo much to be proud of with them.</p>