<p>My son's stats: 33 ACT, 640CR, 740M, 800W, 2/476, class president, working 20 hours weekly since age 15, all expected but not outstanding ECs, lots of APs, likeable kid. I do well, so there will likely be no need based aid. What are his chances for any merit money at Denison? How does the process work and what is the tieline?</p>
<p>He has a good chance. I think the merit aid deadline is January 15. Better have him get busy.</p>
<p>Generally, he sounds like exactly the profile of student DU seems to like to attract (and reward). A very bright, motivated, prepared student who could and will contribute to the campus community on the hill. You don’t lend any insight to his potential diversity (the buzz word) factor(s) …does he play the fiddle and the harpsicord, does he sing in an accapella choir, ethnicity or race, geography (you’re chances are enhanced if you’re from Tupelo rather than Toledo …unless it’s Toledo, Spain.), does he ride bulls in his spare time from working at Pep Boys, is he one of 19 children, does he build underwear bombs or at least know how, etc. You get the point. </p>
<p>Has he interviewed/visited DU? Is there anything compelling about his gifts or his intellectual desires that might make him a particularly positive addition to the student body? Has he shown any unique, genuine interest? What’s the likelihood that he’ll get into other highly selective places? </p>
<p>DU seems to have a very aggressive, somewhat specific strategy for using its FA to build the student body it desires. While I can’t assess the U’s success in achieving this, it definitely has impact in bringing them in from all corners …and keeping them from wondering off.</p>
<p>I could be all wet on this, but my impression is that DU’s applied strategy w/ FA, especially merit aid, goes beyond mere SAT scores, ranking, AP courses and scores, etc. And what seems to drive this is the counter-balancing reality that all must live on campus all 4 years, unless they study off campus and/or offshore. </p>
<p>Short answer: Your lad’s chances for being awarded DU merit FA would seem quite reasonable. As I’ve noted elsewhere, DU has been the lone LAC #1 tier school in the top 10 awarding the most merit to the most students. And having muddled w/ a whole bunch of top tier places, our very positive experience has reflected that. From posts on CC, it seems ours is anythng but an isolated experience. Good luck.</p>
<p>Whistle Pig,</p>
<p>Thanks so much for the insight. A few thoughts…</p>
<p>First, he has no ethnic advantage. We live in Texas which may be a plus. He is the oldest of four and wrote a pretty good essay about his close connection to his three foot tall, four year-old brother.</p>
<p>We have visited and he has interviewed at DU. He has also visited and applied to Richmond, W&L, Wooster, and Wofford. As you may likely know, all of these are bastions of merit aid.</p>
<p>He is a swimmer, but there is (believe it or not) no available indoor pool time within an hour of us. Consequently, his training and very limited coach exposure amounts to about five weeks yearly. He would certainly walk on at Wooster, but Denison’s swimming program is far more competitive.</p>
<p>What else can he do to show interest other than interview, visit, and apply? He surely doesn’t want to be harassing or appear desperate.</p>
<p>He’s a really good kid that carries himself well. He’s refreshingly humble. He’s an excellent organizer and manager. He never needs a reminder…about anything. He’s really is a good one. His weaknesses: not ethnic, not poor, not the first to go to college.</p>
<p>Any more thoughts?</p>
<p>I think if he has interviewed and visited then the U will get the picture. He sounds like exactly the type of student they try to bring in, lack of URM status not withstanding.</p>
<p>What is URM?</p>
<p>Under Represented Minority (usually black). That compares to ORM (Over Represented Minority such as Asian).</p>
<p>grinfixer, check your PM.</p>
<p>Grinfixer: In all liklihood Denison will, at a minimum, offer him a half tuition merit aid scholarship.</p>
<p>Wow, it sounds like my D has same interest in schools. Her top 3 choices would be Denison, University of Richmond, and Wooster (in no particular order). Which of the 3 stood out to you the most? We just got our first acceptance at Wooster with Dean’s Award (still in consideration for other scholarships). Richmond just asked us as parents to write an essay last weekend. Loved the concept. I wrote in no time flat and hope that helps. Even though Richmond is most expensive, it has the lowest indebtedness at graduation. It would be my top pick but is kind of far from home. Denison is a beautiful campus and would be my second choice, but my D did not do interview when visited. I don’t know if that will hurt her chances for acceptance/scholarships. Wooster has an unremarkable Independent Study program, and my D was very excited and stood out to her the most, and I also loved the school.</p>
<p>Did your son apply for the Johnson Scholarship at Washington and Lee? His stats put him in the mix for that competition, and they have quite a number of Texans at the school. The men’s swim team is very good, but not quite as good as Denison’s year in and year out. As such, your son might be a good fit there, especially if he’s a distance swimmer (W&L is famous for their fast sprinters).</p>
<p>Denison and W&L have lots in common, incl the very generous aid awarded at both schools. We currently have sons with merit aid at both schools, incl. a Johnson scholar whose best friend is at Richmond. </p>
<p>Both our sons have had amazing experiences and completely love their schools, pursuing experiences they thought they wanted to have when they applied but even more importantly having experiences they did not anticipate, both in and out of the classroom. Denison has “walked the walk” of supporting our son in ways that no transcript could show. On the aid front, one thing we love about Denison is that it has always used fin aid to create a more economically and ethnically diverse student body, but it also reaches families who may not fit those categories but still can use the help in negotiating the high cost of college, esp for multiple children. In fact, if I recall correctly, more than 90% of DU students receive some sort of merit/need aid.</p>
<p>The following taken from the Admissions Blog at W&L:
So, are you interested in knowing what the competition was like? As I mentioned before, we selected 210 Johnson Finalists from a pool of 2176 applications. While the group chosen boasts an average SAT of 1507, an average ACT of 34, and an average class rank of top 2%, there were many valedictorians with perfect 1600s who didn’t make the cut. This scholarship competition is not just about the numbers, but about leadership and integrity as well. We mined the resumes, interview reports and letters of recommendation for stories that illustrated these qualities in those ultimately chosen as Finalists. In addition, with so many equally strong applicants, the essays take on even more importance, and we paid close attention to those.</p>
<p>My son is a GREAT kid, but I’m afraid the air may be too thin for him all the way up there!</p>
<p>Glad to hear that (again) about Denison.</p>
<p>I could go on and on about the significance of the tours guides at all these schools. The pecking order per my son DIRECTLY correlates with his opinions of the tour guides. It seems that nothing is more significant for getting the right or the wrong “feel” than the guide. Ditzy, nerdy, cocky, funny, and impressive are the words my DS used to describe the guides at Denison, W&L, Wofford, Wooster, and Richmond (in no particular order). Oh, would I love a “standardized guide”</p>
<p>BTW congrats on your son’s award at W&L. Apparently you have the abswer to my question, “Where do they find kids like that”?</p>
<p>grin …I know both those boys and they are virtually interchangeable in terms of being top shelf Tangurey gin types. But diff flavors. One’ll kick butt on the field; t’other on the stage! And they both have enough personality and brains for 3 or 4 fellas.</p>
<p>I do have to laugh at the “spin” W&L puts on the Johnson Scholar candidates …sort of like Obama trying to link himself to the proletariat (sp?), all the while speaking from the palace w/ 32 czars in the front row … Doesn’t quite play, does it. “Only 1507 SAT mean scores and top 2%. But let me make it crystal clear …there was a valedictorian who did not make the cut that we may keep this available to the common man!” 
</p>
<p>Uh huh. Sure. And the process is all aired on the campus channel. ;)</p>
<p>My son was invited to the Johnson scholarship competition with an academic record nearly identical to grinfixer’s son’s. W&L places a LOT of weight on the essay in determining who gets invited to the competition, and they do use the Johnson scholarship competition to identify students who qualify for financial aid and often offer them other scholarships tied to financial need. This apparently would not help grinfixer’s situation, but it did help mine. DS loves W&L, especially his amazing and challenging professors. I would recommend that grin’s son go through the application process. If he hits a home run on the essay, who knows?</p>
<p>As a parent whose son actually went through the process, I can assure you that the W&L statement about students with superb academic records not being invited is real and not some sort of “spin.” The school is interested in more than one’s academic record, although it is an important factor.</p>
<p>As this is a Denison thread, I’ll not keep this conversation going.</p>
<p>Good for yours. The stats speak for themselves, as they are intended to illustrate …students better be top tier academic students to get in the game. No top 20% with pleasant personalities or 26 ACTs. Unless they are Bill Gates II Being valedictorian may not be sufficient, as you say, but sure as heck is necessary, even though some lowly top 2 percenters squeak in, it seems. 
So much for having to be “superb.” </p>
<p>Cmon. Get real.</p>
<p>I’m not sure that WP understands my point. WP, you might want to wander over to the W&L Johnson Scholarship site where you will read from one student:</p>
<p>"wow…i got a finalist letter</p>
<p>I am more surprised than happy, i didnt think my stats would be good enough to get in, let a lone be a scholarship finalist (2080 SAT score)…i didnt even go for an interview"</p>
<p>To make it simple for WP, a 2080 converts to a 31-32 ACT score. I did not suggest that ACTs of 26 get in the hunt. They would not. But grin’s son’s 33 is definitely in the hunt. The point being that good scores, not perfect scores, qualify to be in the hunt, and, as the W&L site states, perfect or nearly perfect scores do not automatically qualify one for the competition weekend.</p>
<p>My main point is that grin’s son has the academic chops to apply for the Johnson. Do you disagree, WP??</p>
<p>Nope, not at all. We concur.</p>
<p>And my apology. I was noting W&L’s implied “spin” in the blog issue, implying that these are available to others beyond valedictorian/35ACTers. I incorrectly attributed that spin, and I contend it is, to you. Sorry again.</p>
<p>Again, they say …
</p>
<p>Johnson Scholar realities would seem to include:
- To get into the hunt, i.e. make it to the finals, a student must be “on average” stellar, awesome, terrific. Barring monumental abberation, even “very good” doesn’t make it. I’d bet few 31-32 ACTers make the cut. Because for each one who does, that means there must be one (or more) 36ACT/2400SATers …none of whom can write for crap.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>However, occasionally it does. See wildwoods anecdote. </p></li>
<li><p>It is that. Far from the average madding crowd of Johnson Scholar finalists.</p></li>
<li><p>grinfixer’s DS might have a shot IF he can be among the 200+ out of 2,000+ who somehow catches an admissions screener’s eye absent of rank and scores. And IF he is one of the world’s great writers @ age 17 or 18. </p></li>
</ol>
<p>We’re for your, lad, grin. As you rightly noted, odds are very slim @ best for this specific gig. And scott, your encouragement is laudable. We all need that. And as the President often proposes, anything’s possible. Heck, even socialized healthcare. Right? </p>
<p>I guess in the end, it’s a matter of determining that which has the best potential of success and consequently, how to optimally spend one’s time, effort, resources. Don’t know your view, but I confess to watching Congress seems to have wasted a year and counting on an unlikely objective.</p>
<p>I accept your humble apologies, WP. Thank you.</p>
<p>Grinfixer, I am not a pessimist when it comes to college and outside scholarships. If you determine not to apply because you don’t think you have a chance, then you definitely will not get the scholarship. The only scholarship recipients are scholarship applicants. Your son meets the academic qualifications for lots of opportunities (including the Johnson); I hope that he does not sell himself short with any opportunity for which he meets the requirements and has interest, whether it is W&L, Denison, or the Texan Swimming and Academic Achievement scholarship (I just made that last one up, but you get the idea). If you are worried about the waste of time, I urge you to look ahead. Next year, simply divide your obtained scholarships by ALL the hours you spent putting all the scholarship applications together. My guess is that you will find that your son “earned” more per hour this way than he will for many years to come. Certainly, he might not win even 10% of the scholarships for which he applies (this was true for all of my children at any rate), but one cannot know ahead of time which ones are the winners. If I think, “well, I’ve only got a 10% ‘chance,’ I might as well not apply,” then I am a certain loser of all such scholarships.</p>
<p>This suggested course is the antithesis of any analogy to socialized medicine or the time that Congress has wasted this past year. Rather, it is an encouragement to take personal responsibility and aim high.</p>