@AlwaysMoving Also, I think it’s pretty easy to say “hybrid” to lure kids back to campus. Not all online! Yea! But “hybrid” likely means hybrid across the curriculum, maybe not for each student. So some kids might be all online…just from their dorms if they live in the residence halls.
Bowdoin has been clear that “hybrid” for them will mean students each get 1/2 of their classes in person and 1/2 remotely. I figure, if on campus, even the remote ones allow for classmates to meet to study together in person and maybe meet with their prof in person one of one depending on the reason the class in online.
I know I keep harping on what Bowdoin is doing but just trying to share the outlook of a LAC and they’ve been pretty open with their plans.
Agree. My D’s LAC is just saying they’re working hard on the issue, what works for other schools may not work for them, and they’re certain they’ll figure out the best path for fall and beyond. That’s it. Reassurance with no actual information at all.
@twoinanddone In S19’s math classes, there are usually around 25 kids but small study groups are always set up with three to four kids per group. They work on problem sets together. The prof expects it. So, keeping the group of 25 from meeting helps with the social distancing but the students could still meet in their small group to do the work. They could meet in a building on campus (the library of other study space) and wear masks and/or stay six feet apart. You don’t think kids aren’t going to study together? S19 almost always studies with friends at least for his STEM type classes.
I think even if the students will study together for an online class, that still protects the professors. Based on opinions from Educators here and elsewhere, as well as parents and kids, the parents and kids want their kids on campus more than they dont. The professors who are older and have families , etc want to keep themselves safe and want to continue to teach online until there is a treatment or vaccine. (same holds true in some sense for K-12).
I dont see how the professors are at high risk if, in fact, only smaller classes meet in larger spaces, and masks are worn during that class and SD rules. have hand sanitizer available. Unless they are not leaving their homes to even go grocery shopping. In that case they teach the online classes.
I like the idea for those who are immune compromised students having their own dorm, likely with additional precautions. Food would still be an issue, but maybe they would set up an area just in that dorm with prepackaged meals. Also some dorms have kitchens. groceries can be delivered. Going to class, where masks and SD.
I want both my kids to go back. I am not worried about their health, and I have one that has issues. She has gotten the Flu and Mono while at college as well as pneumonia. For their age group they have a higher chance of dying from alcohol issues /car accidents/ suicides than from this. They know college will not be the same, but it will be better than living room classes. being able to use any of the college resources is better than nothing. My D needed help from the library and doing it remotely was not great. My S had a coach for his EF issues and remotely did not work. Meeting and sitting 6 feet apart with masks would be better.
I feel like most private residential colleges, or public with lots of out of state will have the students “Back on campus”, but most classes will not be in person. Also that schools will “end” at Thanksgiving. And if they dont open dorms, even with freshman I am hearing parents that will be renting apartments near the college. young Adults do not thrive living at home. Come to my home and see. The regression sucks
I think the students will study together - and work out together and eat together and play video games together and party together, find new BF and GF and take off those masks for kissing and other things. I don’t think students will stay in their single rooms and isolate. It may be that they are in a group of 5 for math class but a different group of 5 for a chemistry class, and those chemistry kids have a different group of 25 for a ‘live’ history class.
I think students should go back to school, but the students are going to have to accept the risk, just like they do with other exposures to colds, flu, meningitis, mono, athlete’s foot and all the other bugs in a dorm or at college. The risks are high with covid-19. Washing hands and staying apart will help, but there will still be more risk of getting sick than there would be if they were home and not going out at all. Schools can’t make it perfect. If you go to 2 live classes with 25 students each, and then have online classes with study groups of 5 each, that’s 24+24+4+4 other students you are exposed to on a regular basis, plus professors and dorm mates and your GF and her friends and the people in the cafeteria (even if just picking up a box), plus the librarians and an adviser…
IMO, a live class is a better controlled environment than smaller group meetings. 25 people spaced out, sitting at a table/desk that has just been wiped down v. 5 people sitting together, huddled over papers or laptops.
@twoinanddone Exactly. kids are going to be around each other. There’s only so much a college can do and every little bit helps I suppose. Maybe 25+25+4+4 is better, though than 25+25+25+25. As for Bowdoin specifically, that’s going to look more like 12+12+3+3 since they already said they have very few rooms to social distance 25 kids so classes will be more like 10-12 kids if they meet in person. And usually study groups are either groups of three or four.
There are new CDC estimates out, I posted this on another thread, but since it is likely very helpful to the college decision making process for the fall (for both students and college administrators), I think it fits here too:
Some key points:
-R0 - 2.5
-40% of transmission occurs before symptom onset
-35% Asymptomatic cases
-0.4% Symptomatic case fatality ratio… (so total case fatality ratio is 0.26% if counting 35% asymptomatic cases in denominator)
Symptomatic case fatality rate estimates by age:
0-49: 0.05%
50-64: 0.2%
65+: 1.3%
As asymptomatic cases drive the spread of the disease, schools have to have testing and contact tracing capabilities in place in order to open up.
Those two things are critical, along with the ability to quarantine those exposed, and isolate those infected (quarantine and isolation cases must be separated).
@Mwfan1921 ok. So, I’m going to ask a really dumb question. What do we do with kids who test positive but who are asymptomatic? There could be a lot of them, no? We have to quarantine them until they are negative? Do we think colleges are going to test kids upfront before school starts and then how often after that? If kids aren’t showing symptoms then I doubt schools will test them yet this info suggests they should be testing kids all of the time regardless of symptoms.
And do asymptomatic cases only have the virus for a certain period of time and then recover? Or are they just carrying it around for a long period of time?
My biggest take on this info is the fatality rates. Those are pretty telling.
The asymptomatic spread is why I don’t see a way for school’s to be open with out serious limitations on social interaction. If the students and school can’t do it then the local or state health department shuts them down.
The city closed that area, but knows the students will just congregate somewhere else. I have a neighbor who is part of the high level (includes the state) discussions about how to stop this. He won’t say anything specific, but he did say that college until the virus is under control will be all about education and not about fun. If the students are here for fun then they have to leave because we’re not tanking our economy so they can party.
I think most students won’t be able to limit their social gatherings to their roommates, and it’s inevitable that the schools go back fully online.
I would think that testing will have to be frequent for everyone…I don’t know if that means every 3 days or what, and any positives get isolated, symptoms or not.
Then contact tracers identify those who were in close contact with the infected, and they get quarantined (and tested frequently).
Agreed on the fatality rates. Here are covid-19 fatality rates compared to that of flu/pneumonia, by age. All under 24 age groups are more likely to die from influenza or pneumonia than covid-19.
Maybe the asymptomatic numbers are troubling but what about the hospitalization and fatality numbers? Those show that this virus is no where as scary for everyone - especially those under 65. That’s my takeaway. Let’s get back to campus. Protect the vulnerable and the older folks but get back to school.
Personally, I hope that my D20’s school tests all students before school starts. That’s the only way to isolate and trace cases from the get go. And I believe, yes, those who test positive but are asymptomatic still have to quarantine until they test negative.
How often should they test after that? I don’t know but I leave that to the experts and hopefully the schools have experts weighing in. It’s a big endeavor, for sure. I suspect many schools won’t be able to pull it off.
No school isn’t in session. There will be no summer session. These are students (judging by their ages, plus a few locals I’d imagine) who chose not to leave Boulder once the school shut down.
Who’s to organize and pay for these “regular tests”? Insurance companies aren’t.
There’re 20 million college students in the US. So far, we’ve only performed less than 13 million tests, cumulatively. Are the colleges overly confident of their abilities to test quickly and regularly?