@ucbalumnus Well that’s true at many colleges, but at Amherst, virtually everyone lives on campus (and it seems that everyone will be required to live on-campus next year) and all frats are banned.
I think the problem here is the same: crowds.
Indoor, social gatherings with large groups of students not social distancing? This is a recipe for virus transmission. It only takes one infected individual to pass this on to a large number of others - so probability-wise it is likely. One could argue that this might occur with young people even in their hometowns, but in this instance it would be a public health failure, not a college leadership failure.
Put another way, if a college brings a large number of students back to campus in the fall, and there is an outbreak, it will be the college’s responsibility. I am sure college leaders are grappling with this risk at the moment, and balancing this against their institution’s solvency.
The sports issue is intriguing. I went to a large school with ~ 100,000 people at the football games, and crowded bars before and after. I sincerely doubt that this version of sports will occur in the fall.
Now it could be that some workable alternative is created, given the amount of money involved. Would it be reasonable to test every football player repeatedly, and play in empty stadiums for a TV audience? I’d bet that this is what they are thinking…
For the three possibilities mentioned by @petitbleu, I think #2 is the best case situation for students who wish to return to campus, and even it has substantial challenges.
3 is scary. It's estimated that about 4% of the U.S. population has now been infected, with (likely) > 100,000 deaths. What happens if you let it rip? You would get uncontrolled spread, starting on campus and rippling outwards to the adjacent community. I don't think this would end well.
The quick advancement of testing technology and availability will be key for college campuses.
If we assume that those who are exposed and successfully fight off the virus are then immune for at least several months (characteristics of this virus suggest that will be true), with things ‘opening up’ this summer, a large proportion of 18-24 year olds will be ‘immune.’ Let’s say that proportion right now is 10%, overall. It could be as high as 20-30% in places like NYC currently. By August, that number would probably range from 20-40% for young adults.
Test manufacturers are cranking out tests now (thanks to the governor’s coalitions). One can go online and purchase a serology test from a local lab and get results within days. Perhaps the colleges will require incoming students to establish their antibody status by move-in day. Rapid tests for the virus will be much, much more widely available by August, making weekly testing of students very feasible.
I don’t see how social distancing will prevent spread among the students. Even with frequent testing and isolating, by the end of one semester, perhaps twice as many students will be ‘immune’. Perhaps more. As the proportion of students who are immune and no longer transmitting the virus, spread will naturally slow among the students. Since so few young people get very sick or are fatalities, most campuses will not see a spike in students losses (large campuses have some student deaths each year).
This ignores impact on faculty, staff and then the surrounding community. I think that is where the efforts to contain spread through testing and isolating needs to be the most intense. But besides large workplaces, college campuses will be one place where a large group of people can be monitored relatively easily. We generally know where residential college students are every day. They are easily accessed.
With theme parks reopening, it is unclear why group limits need to be enforced on campuses. One can gather with tens of thousands at Universal Studios but not with fellow students?
Opening with new requirements like:
"Therefore we ask that all guests and Team Members comply with following:
Face covering required
Everyone is required to wear a face covering during their visit.
Temperature check required
Temperature checks will be required upon arrival, and guests with a temperature of 100.4 degrees or greater will not be admitted.
Wash hands often
Wash your hands with soap and water often for at least 20 seconds.
Social distancing
Practice social distancing and keep at least 6 feet (2 meters) between your travel party and others.
Floor markings
When present, please stand on the floor markings until the group in front of you moves forward.
Avoid contact with people who are sick
Use hand sanitizer when required
At select locations including prior to boarding ride vehicles, guests will be required to use hand sanitizer.
Follow Team Member direction
Please follow directions from our team members and have patience as we work through these new operational procedures.
Please note the CDC advises that older adults and people of any age who have serious underlying medical conditions might be at higher risk for severe illness from COVID-19. Guests should evaluate their risk in determining whether to attend. People who show no symptoms can spread COVID-19 if they are infected, any interaction with the general public poses an elevated risk of being exposed to COVID-19, and we cannot guarantee that you will not be exposed during your visit.
We appreciate your cooperation during this unprecedented time. Visit the CDC website for the latest guidelines.
Due to the evolving nature of this situation, details are subject to change without notice."
https://www.universalorlando.com/web/en/us/terms-of-service/operations-update
Any privately owned property that is not meeting the health department criteria will be shut down. Might be for a week and cleaning or it might be until the virus is under control. State owned property probably would require the university to agree or the order come from the state health department.
You do not really think that will happen do you? It doesn’t happen now when the parties violate state laws on drinking and drugs.
I don’t think we should be taking any pointers from Universal Studios. “If they are doing it why can’t we” doesn’t really work for me.
I agree with whoever said the schools will do everything their power, for financial reasons, to get kids on campus and say whatever they can to make us believe it will happen. I believe it could go either way for the start of the fall semester. Am not convinced it won’t all fall apart during fall semester once they are on campus.
I am not suggesting we follow Universal policy. If theme parks and similar large venue events are occuring, then there are likely to be so many transmission points that attempts to segregate college students are futile. The beaches this weekend should be another data point. It appears highly likely that social distancing among those under 25 will be long over by September.
Just because there isn’t 100% compliance doesn’t mean policies shouldn’t be put in place. Most compliance happens voluntarily and enforcement tends to target repeated violators.
I come to a full stop at stop signs, always. My hubby does rolling stops. He’s been ticketed three times. Most people stop most of the time.
My daughter wouldn’t get a fake ID. Her boyfriend had one and used it often. He was arrested for it. Most underage young adults aren’t alcoholics.
College students will attend venues of 20k ( Universal) and likely 50k (Disney, at some time), and return to campus but can’t meet in groups of 26 on campus? That doesnt make much sense.
Obviously it will depend on the severity of the violation and the history between the city/university and the Greek organization. One alcohol violation doesn’t get a frat shutdown, but multiple ones or a death does. One person not wearing a mask is not a big deal, but a keg party is.
You must know very different colleges than I do. Alcohol-laden parties are a common occurrence at every college I know, and frats are almost never shut down.
In a perfect world, college students arriving on campus from away will be tested and only interact with the rest of campus and local community if non contagious. Otherwise they quarantine.
Theoretically this is possible.
It also seems possible to bring students to campus in small groups, isolate them for two weeks, and then consider them a bubble. You can keep adding to the bubble. (Pretty sure someone proposed this 100s of posts back)
There can still be a spread to the students from faculty and staff.
I can’t imagine students will be allowed to join the campus population, untested, right after visiting a theme park. Surely there will be instructions and questionnaires to avoid that scenario?
Of course, they can fib. And I’m not sure how different an airport is than theme park.
@roycroftmom I wonder if Universal or Disney will close rides that are mostly inside. Maybe that’s part of the difference? And I think they are going to limit the number of people who are allowed to enter? I thought I saw that the Disney in China is only allowing 25% capacity. Still, I agree at some point.
I just think colleges will control what they can control. Class size, rules in campus buildings and dorms for masks and/or social distancing, cafeteria protocols, sporting events. After that, it’s up to the students. I’m sure there will be little to no social distancing inside dorm rooms or in off campus apartments but I feel like every little bit helps, right? That’s what the whole country is doing. Rules for beaches, retail, restaurants, office buildings will (hopefully) be enforced but people are going to do whatever they are going to do in their own homes. Police aren’t going to be breaking up neighborhood parties inside someone’s house. And, apparently, churches think they can all open now.
Maybe students will surprise us a little bit? Even if they just wash their hands more, don’t share drinks, think twice before being in a really crowded party, that will help. Not all kids will do that but some will.
@Leigh22 They would lose a ton of money by not keeping the entire student body on-campus too; this semester alone, with only a partial refund of room and board, no refund of tuition, and virtually no gap semesters/years, Amherst has lost over $10M in the short-term. The UC system has lost over $1B. It’s not like all they have to do is get students on-campus then they are in the clear.
Not all those 50 k are huddled together in the same enclosed area. Theme parks are generally an outdoor activity. There will be policies in place for social distancing, they are decreasing admittance allowances and so on. Personally, I wouldn’t be going to a theme park at this time.
Colleges will have rules. No one knows how this will go till it happens.
@roycroftmom wrote:
It’s increasingly clear that there is a lot of window dressing going on. It’s like “diversity”; just because a college has a lot of URMs in attendance doesn’t mean everyone sits around a campfire singing folk songs together. So, it will be with the three-pronged “gold standard” of “testing, quarantining and isolation”. It will look good on paper; the LACs will do an especially good job of hand-holding fretful parents. But, IMHO, most of them are gambling that the bulk of returning students will have already been exposed to the virus over the summer.
https://www.dukechronicle.com/article/2020/05/duke-university-students-to-return-fall-2020-details-announced-june-coronavirus
Pres. Price’s comments on CNN lead me to believe they are bringing some, not all students back to campus in the Fall, but they plan to continue to evaluate info/options and will announce by the end of June. Let’s see what the ever changing corona case data, available interventions, etc. show in the coming weeks…but NC state and UNC have already announced their are going back, and they are significantly larger student populations than Duke.
While this is accurate it doesn’t really answer the core question of how does it work for the 40% of positive covid cases that are completely asymptomatic. I don’t think we know the answer to this question, hopefully, we’ll find out soon:
When- after exposure does someone become contagious if they are completely asymptomatic throughout? So if I come into close contact with someone that is asyptomatic but positive, when are they contagious and do asymptomatic people shed the virus as much as symptomatic?
We have a live example - Katie Miller in the White House tested negative one day and then positive the next. She was completely asymptomatic. Has anyone that she came into close contact with tested positive for the virus? Does she know how she picked up the virus and when was that contact? how soon after you’ve been exposed does it show up on a test? Can viral loads be tested? Hopefully more research will come out.