Respectfully, my concern about students resuming on campus in the Fall has never been about the risk to my daughter’s health or her fellow students in general. I understand that an otherwise healthy 19 yo has almost zero risk of getting seriously ill from the virus, let alone dying (I’d go as far to say that these kids have a higher chance of serious harm from accidents, drinking/drugs, etc. than covid). But thousands of students in congregate living and being on campus will very likely result in someone in the school’s community getting seriously ill or dying, and I am kidding myself if I think that is not the case. It could be the diehard elderly professor who wants to hold class in person no matter what, but I’d bet it will be more likely be the food service worker, the dorm janitor or security officer, or similar worker who will pick it the virus from an unsuspecting student and get sick (or take it home to a vulnerable family member) and die.
Based on what I’ve seen in lack of compliance with social distancing and ‘you can’t make me wear a mask’ issues in various parts of the country, I think some students simply will not comply with what is asked of them, and that will mean increased risk for transmitting the virus on campus. Risk to the campus community can be significantly reduced with robust testing of students and employees and contact tracing, to start with (along with support of workers financially who have to quarantine). I’m aware that most schools who have announced they will be on campus for Fall have said they will test but I have not seen any clear plans shared except for UCSD, and I am closely following the news to see how it goes there.
My daughter would go back tomorrow in a heartbeat and for her mental health, I really do want her to go…but it is weighing heavily on me. I can try to justify it to myself and say ‘well, some number of students will commit suicide in the Fall if they can’t get back to a sense of normalcy, or they will seek solace in drugs/drinking, or they will drive too fast and get in accidents, etc. ‘…ok, but until the schools can fully articulate plans as to how they will protect not just the students but all of the campus workers who support the students being there, it still seems I am favoring the students’ mental health above the workers’ lives. God help me.
Lastly, having experienced covid-19 in my household and worrying for weeks about my ill spouse, I can tell you I also worried immensely about friends I had contact with, fearing I spread it to them unknowingly (this occurred right before lock down, and I couldn’t get tested without symptoms, so we all had to wait it out). There will be mental health issues for students who let down their guard in social distancing and spread the virus they pick up at a party to members of the campus community who may not have a healthy 19 year old bodies and suffer.
He’s not consciously thinking about any of that. Not “trying to get infected”. I think he’s just living his life the best he can right now and trying to make good decisions. He’s also trying to be sensitive to other people’s decisions as to how they want to handle how they socialize. He might invite someone to play golf (which is allowed) but, if that person isn’t comfortable, then he might ask them to do something else if they want to get together that works better for them. He offered to wear a mask when he was doing some work outside a neighbor’s house the other day but the neighbor told him it was fine to take it off as long as he was outside. I do think he thinks that, if he catches it here or at school, it will stink but he’ll just be sick for a while and he will deal with it the best he can if or when it happens.
Have you and your student gotten tested for antibodies indicating a past (possibly asymptomatic) infection?
Although immunity (at least for some non-trivial amount of time) from past infection is not yet proven, it is looking more likely to be the case as evidence builds up for it, so if your student has already had COVID-19, her risk of either getting sick from it again or being a vector passing it along to others is likely lower than for a student who has never had it.
Yes we did antibody testing and my kids and I were negative (my spouse who actually had Covid was positive of course). Doc suggested getting retested in July to confirm. We were being extremely diligent With handwashing, etc because spouse was still going to work and schools were just starting to shut down But still I was shocked that none of contracted it.
The Rutgers on campus hospitals are not there just to serve Rutgers. They are a major part of New Jersey’s healthcare system for the entire state.
@2ndthreekids, as a college employee I appreciate your concerns. I’m part of the support staff and we don’t earn very much. A lot of us could earn almost as much working at Starbucks, so my colleagues and I have to decide if going back in the fall is worth the risk to us.
We can’t depend on students and faculty to stay away when they’re symptomatic during flu season, so we don’t really trust that they’ll behave any differently now. They dose up on fever reducers and cold meds then show up anyway. Students worry about the impact to their grade if they miss class, and faculty (especially visitors and adjuncts) worry that if they cancel a couple of classes or ask tenured faculty to sub they won’t be rehired.
I’ve had people come into my (small) office to ask questions only to realize after a lengthy conversation that they’ve been running a fever and are actually ill. I’ve lost several days of work to the flu, and it always follows meetings with people who came to my office when they were sick.
In my small department more than half of the faculty members are seriously considering teaching remotely (even if students are allowed to return) because of the risk (some due to age, some due to underlying health conditions). The chances of becoming ill if people socially distance are different than the actual chances of becoming ill on a college campus. If the college community doesn’t respect us enough to keep their germs to themselves now, why should we trust that they’ll do it in the future?
One of my kids likely had the virus, but was not tested due to a lack of tests. She is doing a gap year in an area with many, many cases, her co-workers had the virus (confirmed) and she had mild symptoms. She had a cough and body aches for one day (very mild) and then two days later …after those symptoms were gone …she lost her sense of smell and taste for a week in the absence of a cold or nasal stuffiness. She has not had the antibody test yet.
My other D lives and works in the epicenter. Between traveling the trains and working closely with people who were impacted in one way or another…while not wearing a mask for most/all of those months…I would be shocked if she doesn’t have antibodies. At least one of the children she works with just lost a family member who lives in her house. That scenario is not uncommon.
I am not worried about my ,kids. While I do understand that young people can develop very serious symptoms from this virus, I also recognize that the odds are strongly in their favor.
I am scared for when they come into contact with me…or with their grandparents or other compromised individuals.
One day I will likely return to school in some capacity, even if it’s temporary while being part time in the building. Will some kids develop horrible illness? Possibly. Will some of the teachers, custodians etc get very ill? Possibly. That’s what I worry about. I worry about one asymptomatic student bringing this virus to school…and suddenly kids with asthma and diabetes, teachers with underlying conditions etc…become ill. Some seriously.
Will that stop me from returning if schools open up? No. I will go in with my masks, face shields, disinfectant etc…and follow strict social distancing rules that my school will absolutely have in place. Masks will not be optional (not sure about young kids).
If infection happens in schools, they will be shut down …immediately…and remote learning will begin once again. This is easier…faster… to do in k-12 than on college campuses.
I don’t know if this has been discussed already but my Ds school said just yesterday that they will be distributing the The CARES act funds to eligible students who have been affected by COVID 19. Which students are eligible and how do they determine which students have been affected by COVID. I thought every student has been affected financially by COVID. Does anyone know how their school distributes the money.
D is a rising senior and signed up for AP Calc. I’m wondering if school ends up being some kind of weird hybrid that’s includes distance learning, will she better off taking calc dual enrollment? She would be learning from professionals that are already accustomed to online learning rather than school teachers that are now finding their way. Any thoughts?
I forget who said this but I still have the quote queued up after doing a lot of catching up:
This.
Almost every scenario I have read entails some number of students testing positive. And, there seems to be a consensus that these students will be moved to housing on or near campus. Even assuming the risk of actual deaths remains as low as some posters hope, at what point do these students begin to resemble a “hot spot”?
At a minimum, the college is commiting itself to monitoring them until they are no longer shedding virus during which time the bed count will continue to rise. There could be anywhere from dozens to hundreds of students (both asymptomatic and symptomatic) in some form of segregated housing before it plateaus.
Do we really understand what the media reaction would be? Are college and university trustees prepared for that kind of daily coverage (especially, the ones located in major markets?)
This.
There will be lots of promises to abide by rules, but college students will inevitably be breaking the rules when they can get away with it. They aren’t going to stop drinking (and whatever else), they aren’t going to stop partying, and they aren’t going to stop having sexual relationships. And haven’t we been told on this thread that faculty/staff should just accept it, because it’s part of their job? The students are young, they are invincible, the virus isn’t going to affect them (or so they think), so nothing else matters.
[quote=“circuitrider, post:4631, topic:2088334”]
I forget who said this but I still have the quote queued up after doing a lot of catching up:
This.
Almost every scenario I have read entails some number of students testing positive. And, there seems to be a consensus that these students will be moved to housing on or near campus. Even assuming the risk of actual deaths remains as low as some posters hope, at what point do these students begin to resemble a “hot spot”?
That was a post from me. And you didn’t copy the sentence after that quote where I said that ND was meeting with local health officials and they said they chance of closing the campus again was very small. That’s part of the reason that ND (and I’m guessing other schools) are going for it.
Also, if you think about it, it’s unlikely to shut down campus because that means sending sick kids all over the place. That’s different that March. The planning that schools are doing includes how to handle the virus on campus in case of a larger breakout and, if a college is worried they can’t do that, then maybe they are less likely to open campus. I’m guessing that, with a larger outbreak, kids would just move to all online from the dorms/off campus housing.
Let us consider the alternative. Most Support staff are not going to be paid if schools do not reopen in person. No need for all the custodians, food staff, etc. Those workers likely need income and will seek other employment, presumably in commercial settings. So they can commute to the city where they will likely work in an office building occupied by thousands of workers or at a restaurant where hundreds pick up their lunch. There is no assurance any of those workers followed any rules, or have or live with others who have, the virus. Companies are relying on self reporting if people feel ill, and of course, ill adults walk around all the time.
I do not think a college campus is uniquely dangerous for support workers compared to other work sites.
^assuming in a large outbreak, faculty are still healthy enough to keep online classes going.
And do we think colleges aren’t thinking about the larger implications of lots of media coverage if they handle the virus poorly? Of course they are. I don’t subscribe to these ideas that the virus will run rampantly through campus all in some short period of time with kids dropping like flies and quarantine beds filling up. Kids here are out NOW, drinking and having sex and at parties way larger than ten and we don’t see any stories of big breakouts from that. Even in our little suburb, where most kids are likely to be being somewhat careful, our D sees a LOT of photos of parties in kids basements (big ones!) with alcohol. We have 170 cases in our town and something like 150 of them are in the two nursing homes.
@homerdog wrote:
Would you explain what Notre Dame means by that? Did the local health authorities close ND last March? Or, did ND close itself?
@alh why would faculty be getting sick from students if students have to follow protocols while on campus and in class like social distancing and masks?
Two administrators are in our school building…working.
Two office staff employees are the building…they are working. My friend who is part of the “support staff” is working from home. She does many contracts with special education placements, IEPs, she sends letters to parents, phone calls, she does work pertaining to grants, orders, busing, meetings related to finances and out of district tuitions, etc.
Custodians are in the building and will continue to be in the building throughout the summer.
Our aides (“support staff”) are working. They participate in zoom meetings and provide educational help to their students.
Our food service employees are working. There are students who receive free or reduced price breakfast and lunch and travel to specified locations to pick up their food. Some food gets delivered.
Homerdog wrote:
Wait. What? You’re not helping your cause, Homer. LOL.
@circuitrider huh? ND closed like every other college last March. I don’t believe local authorities made any of those calls. The colleges did. Now, though, colleges are working with public health officials to plan fall because they need to work together to make a plan that likely includes hospitals. Also, colleges will have to abide by any rules their governors have in place.