In my opinion, one can summarize Dr. Fauci’s comments as “It depends” and “We dont know yet.” He sounded like that hysterical mock university memo posted upthread. Perhaps the continued lack of definition from experts will ensure an online format for the fall in most places. Universities will need to present their action plans very soon and there just isnt enough certainty on testing and other considerations for confident decision-making.
Denmark and Germany still don’t have any rise is cases after schools being open for over 4 weeks.
Arizona publishes demographics. In the 0-19 age range there have been 1415 cases, 18 hospitalizations, one ICU (that’s just Maricopa county, which accounts for 8 hospitalizations-state doesn’t list ICU numbers by age) and no deaths.
In the next age range, 20-44, about 5% of cases are hospitalized, and about 20% of those end up in ICU (based on county numbers—state doesn’t publish ICU numbers)
So not very many students taking up ICU space.
The attitude displayed in some of these posts is exactly why faculty members are thinking long and hard about going back in person. It hasn’t taken long to go from “we’ll do whatever we’re asked” to “do we really need masks once we’re in the classroom?” Or "maybe not wearing masks at parties is okay if kids socially distance." Or "don’t the college kids have more to fear from the community than vice versa?" You aren’t helping your cases any.
This is what we know. College students (many who have no sense of personal space) come talk to us when they’re sick. And they try to mask it with meds. Some are insanely entitled (“it’s your job to flush the toilet for me”). Others lack simple awareness of the needs of others. Some want colleges to provide whatever’s on their personal list that will make them feel like they’re getting their money’s worth no matter what risks that entails for others, and they apparently think low income workers should risk their lives to serve them or try to find employment elsewhere. None of these attitudes are creating an atmosphere that many academics are eager to return to anytime soon.
I think a lot of people on this board don’t understand college communities very well. The low level staff person that you think is so disposable is likely related to at least one other (higher ranked) person on campus. Or they went to school together. Or they’ve been friends for years. And the differences between “high risk of death” and “risk of death” are zero in the minds of faculty who are older, have minor children to support, and/or have preexisting health conditions. But carry on. Just realize you aren’t talking into a vacuum.
In Germany, universities won’t open for in-person classes until 2021. But they aren’t funded by tuition.
Depends on what masks and what study your reading. But homemade masks are blocking out 3%.surgical masks 58% and N95 masks well… Lol… 95 %
The Brooks brother masks are interesting to me.
Just heard that some face shields can be as good as some surgical masks if they wrap around the sides of your face and chin. Hmmm.
Also read that Ironing the masks after washing like hand washing can be useful. Have to read more about that
Opinion piece in the NY Times today from the president of Notre Dame
I work in healthcare and see adults with cloth masks that have not been ironed and are not being worn properly. I think it is unreasonable to assume that kids will iron their masks.
Wrapping under chin or covering chin?
More news from Rice. They are sending weekly emails. The one I posted yesterday was in regards to facemasks but the school newspaper says they have a plan that involves testing everyone on campus regularly, as well as providing hand sanitizer, contact tracing and quarantining. The are working with the Texas Medical Center on a testing protocol. The medical center is across the street from campus.
I suspect the Rice President is working closely with some other college Presidents. When the news came out about them ending the semester before Thanksgiving, shortly after several other schools announced the same plan.
@austinmshauri I believe I’m responsible for two of the highlighted cases of parents apparently being cavalier above.
That wasn’t my intention, I was simply playing devil’s advocate.
For the record, I don’t have a seat at any table where campus policies will be devised.
A person that points out inconsistencies in virus protocols, or highlights things that may run counter to the general consensus isn’t necessarily advocating for policies that conflict with universally accepted protection procedures.
I completely understand your sensitivity towards this issue, though.
I find it very interesting that it is assumed that students (children of CC’ers) are so irresponsible that they cannot be asked to wear masks and follow rules. In the past, kids, some younger than college age students, were volunteering to fight in wars and almost surely die. But our current batch of kids are so self absorbed that they can’t, or wont, follow some basic rules. Sad.
Somehow kids in China seem to be able to sit in their classes all day wearing masks, not sure what makes Americans so special that we can’t so the same during a pandemic?
I agree that we will see a range of behaviors from the students, and also from the staff and faculty.
Regardless, I think this thread is a great place to ask the questions that you highlight above…Why this and not this? Or can someone help me understand this? Etc.
So far CDC guidelines, governor executive orders, and the various phased in plans are less than clear, some with notable discontinuities. For example in Illinois Phase IV allows gatherings up to 50 people and also allow schools back in session. My kid’s HS has 3500 people in the building all day for 7+ hours. Clearly there will be more than 50 people in some of those classrooms/hallways/study spaces/cafeterias etc. There are not enough spaces to have 50 or fewer in all of them in any given class period.
Dear everyone that has ever, and will ever post on CC,
I
Was
Not
Advocating for students to not wear masks while in class. I was pointing out that, at least where we live(a hotspot btw), restaurants will be allowed to open with seated diners that are maskless. I Understand you can’t eat while wearing a mask, but people can sit in a restaurant for as long, if not longer than a class. What makes one seemingly acceptable, but not the other. It’s an odd conflict, that’s all.
Carry on…
We don’t know how good cloth masks are; we think they probably do something to stop transmission. We don’t know exactly how they stop transmission, if they do, but common sense says one mechanism of action is being a physical barrier that stops droplets that come out of somebody’s nose and mouth. That will still happen to a great extent if the mask is dirty.
A dirty mask probably still is somewhat effective. It is a danger to the person wearing it, though, because it’s got germs all over it (not necessarily covid, but just germs in general). We need to encourage our students to wash their masks.
^^GK: I for one took your post as raising an empirical question, not advocating for the position.
That being said, I personally have little faith that college kids will wear masks on a consistent basis. Too many kids consider themselves snowflakes – not gonna happen.
And yes, austin, if I was senior faculty member with co-morbidities, I’d be looking to retire or ask for accommodations and continue to teach my classes online. The big issue would be how to continue research and maintain social distancing from grad students and other faculty members.
I’m wondering if ironing/steaming a mask might be a quick option for college kids if a W/D isn’t available.
My D’s dorm doesn’t allow for irons or steamers in the room but I think they have them in the shared laundry space. I have to say that I can’t see her going to iron face masks. That’s why I want to send her with disposal masks if she falls behind in doing laundry. I’m thinking that by the time school comes around, she’ll be well in the habit of wearing masks as she started her job on site today and needs to wear one round the clock inside the building. At some point, it should become second nature.
I think it’s a low number - everything I’ve heard about ICU patients (from a hospitalist neighbor and a friend who’s an ICU nurse) suggests they’re older… in part because the younger patients are being kept out since their illness can be managed easier outside of ICU.
I have heard of young people - mid 20s – being very, very sick. But those are rarer cases, and you hear about them because they tend to stand out.
In Colorado, basically anyone seriously ill with Covid was transported to Denver (Covid first broke out in the ski resorts, brought here by infected Australians) so they’d be closer to ICU beds, should they need it. I imagine similar protocols would be in place in remote areas without adequate medical facilities.
The regulations I have seen for Germany state a social distance of 1.5 meters, or just under 5 feet. So it seems there is nothing magical about 6 feet as a distance for separation. A mile (or a kilometer) is probably optimal, but not very practical. Although I certainly do have people I’d like to stay a mile away from:).